Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice

[MardiganX]

Thanks for updating that following the prompts. It was spoiler wrapped before I came back in 🙂

 

Snake, fuuuuuuck. Sneaky sneaky. Oh, that’s a big welcomed red death blow marker. RRRRRRRRUUUUUUUNNNNN!!

 

I must have to jump down to that Battlefield. Looks oddly open and primed for a…. “I AM ANGRY HORSEY MAN, YA YA YA”.

 

Amazingly had him so close to being done after only a few deaths when I got really, really brave and started parrying around his ponies feet. Also, had I not worked out earlier whilst fighting the chained ogre that you can grapple to some enemies I would not have done so well. This fucking game!

 

 

[Talvalin]

Congratulations! By the way if you haven't got the Fire Cracker Prosthetic Tool, you might be needing it very shortly. Just saying.

 

Also, after beating the boss and resting at the Sculptor's Idol by the gate to the castle, don't forget to turn around and check out the building behind you.

 

There's an NPC there you should chat to as he will give you a short side quest that will unlock more skills. There is also a very useful item, and a vendor selling a Gourd Seed amongst other things.

[MardiganX]

18 hours ago, Talvalin said:

Congratulations! By the way if you haven't got the Fire Cracker Prosthetic Tool, you might be needing it very shortly. Just saying.

 

Also, after beating the boss and resting at the Sculptor's Idol by the gate to the castle, don't forget to turn around and check out the building behind you.

 

There's an NPC there you should chat to as he will give you a short side quest that will unlock more skills. There is also a very useful item, and a vendor selling a Gourd Seed amongst other things.

 

First time back at General Horseback following my retrieval of the Firecracker you mentioned and SHINOBI EXECUTION  required a resurrection and was close to the bone with health but such a satisfying encounter and outcome to get it first time going back to it. Thanks for the tips man!

[Talvalin]

You're welcome, and well done on beating the boss! That grapple to boss technique will come in handy in later encounters as well (usually the large bosses), so remember to keep an eye out for that marker above their head.

 

Ah, I mentioned that the Hirata Estate was totally optional right? That place with the spear monk, the large drunkard who spits poison and a proper boss at the end that you enter by ringing a bell at the Buddha statue in the Dilapidated Temple?

 

I just remembered that if you beat the proper boss at the end of it, you'll receive a special item. Read the description and it'll say that you should give it to a NPC, which will then allow you to resurrect an additional time. So, whilst optional, it is very much worth your while to eventually finish that area.

[PikaStu]

The horse guy in the castle is a nightmare! I know what to do, as you can block the majority of his attacks then sneak one in, but I keep messing it up 🤦‍♂️

[MardiganX]

5 minutes ago, PikaStu said:

The horse guy in the castle is a nightmare! I know what to do, as you can block the majority of his attacks then sneak one in, but I keep messing it up 🤦‍♂️

 

Is the one in the open Battlefield?

[PikaStu]

Yeah Gyoubu Masataka Oniwa. 

Best I’ve done is get him down to a sliver of energy on his first health bar. 

 

I haven’t got the firecracker arm, but I’ve been using flames. You can block pretty much every attack, except when the red icon flashes but that’s easy to dodge. However I need to focus more on each of his moves and what’s going to follow. I’m gonna do it today, I can feel it 🤔

[robdood]

6 minutes ago, PikaStu said:

. You can block pretty much every attack, except when the red icon flashes

This is true for basically everything in the game, btw, no matter how huge or ridiculous it might look or feel, Wolf is a parry god, EVERYTHING can be deflected.  Unless it is preceded by a red warning.  Or is an obviously magical / fiery attack. 

[MardiganX]

Last night I was swinging wildly between feeling Sekiro is the greatest and most perfect action game ever made to it being a flawed masterpiece. I'm still undecided but think I'm making some really good progress now. I will start using spoilers for area and enemy chat as I'm sure there are people like me who want to go into this totally blind and weak like I was
 

Spoiler

I (think) I am cleaning up mini-bosses and side quests around the Ashina Outskirts at the moment. I have the Caste opened up a bit and explored some sections but went back to the Reservoir after reading about a few things worth checking out there. At first I wasn't sure if those sections were for a future version of Wolf to come back to but that became clear fairly quickly when I met the Longswordsman. Fuck me. The battle with him and the encounter with the General at the top of the castle gate steps surrounded by 4 riflemen are what swung me toward Sekiro being a flawed masterpiece. Before I get into it I want to confirm and also beat my chest a little that both of those fuckers are now dust  

 

The Longswordsman battle takes place in a tiny little box and has you fighting your fastest and most maneuverable enemy yet. I get the intent. Force you to be methodical with your movement and accept the fact that to beat this guy you are going to have to get comfortable sitting in his sights and also be incredibly aggressive. The problem is the camera often switches off your lock as he moves you near the walls and leaves you searching for him whilst he continues throwing extremely deadly attacks. That isn't a game mechanic you have to get better that, its simply those mechanics hitting some limitations due to the enclosed environment and the coke fueled ninja they are trying to track. Yes, you could counter that by saying the game is fully aware of this and forces you to limit your reliance on the camera tracking, but that's not good enough for me. The bastard would be hard enough in a large open arena  I smashed myself against him for over an hour last night before taking another route up the steps...

 

To the General giving the speech to his 4 Riflemen. First of all, what an absolute coward. Giving it the big one whilst having a 4 man rifle shield. Again, this took a long time but in the end I worked out an approach that removed the riflemen and then reset the Generals awareness so I could get a deathblow to start my battle with him. Again, I get the intent that by this stage a General on his own isn't actually too much of a challenge but its the kind of mechanic that in a Souls game would have been the point at which I stopped playing. The reason I didnt, and the reason why Returnal changed this genre for me, is that the world and gameplay was just so much fun and rewarding to keep playing. So while its less about the encounter being flawed its every bit about From creating scenarios where its easy to feel cheated.

 

With the rifle shield wall General defeated I took myself back to the Longswordsman and after only a few attempts I emptied his veins. Ok, so I did have my second prayer necklace following the Generals death but in the end I didnt need all my health items.

 

I suppose those encounters are exactly what Sekiro is all about and I'm ok with that, but they are also why I feel no matter how good I get and how many bosses I beat its always going to feel like certain things could be slightly tweaked to make the game absolutely perfect. Returnal for me was perfect. There is nothing about that games mechanics, enemies, bosses, anything that I ever felt needed tweaked. Sekiro being a much older game and needing very minor tweaks to hit perfection shows just how amazing the game is because before Sekiro From have driven me to boredom. Absolutely nothing about Sekiro is boring and no matter how many times I die I will rise again until every enemy is defeated. I can think of no higher praise for the game given the reasons for me taking so long to play it.

[MardiganX]

26 minutes ago, PikaStu said:

Yeah Gyoubu Masataka Oniwa. 

Best I’ve done is get him down to a sliver of energy on his first health bar. 

 

I haven’t got the firecracker arm, but I’ve been using flames. You can block pretty much every attack, except when the red icon flashes but that’s easy to dodge. However I need to focus more on each of his moves and what’s going to follow. I’m gonna do it today, I can feel it 🤔

 

A few times I had him very close to death before I had the firecracker, but it was a lot better fighting him with that and using it several times to open up attack windows. Also, hit as many grapple attacks as you can when he increases his distance from you. Dodging attacks to circle him worked a lot better than looking to deflect everything for me too  

[robdood]

@MardiganX Re that longswordman

Spoiler

Yeah he's tough in that arena! I think on my first playthrough I avoided him til I'd fought a bunch more of his kind later in the game and had cracked their pattern. 

 

The camera / lock on can be irritating in enclosed spaces, but the lock on is optional, blocking seems to work 360 so don't worry aobut which way you're facing if it goes wrong.  Attacks can be guided with left stick when not locked on.  Keep your cool and he's very doable. 

 

Believe, he dies in seconds every time now.   Once you learn the 'trick' to each enemy, they become much more manageable. 

[MardiganX]

2 minutes ago, robdood said:

@MardiganX Re that longswordman

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Yeah he's tough in that arena! I think on my first playthrough I avoided him til I'd fought a bunch more of his kind later in the game and had cracked their pattern. 

 

 

The camera / lock on can be irritating in enclosed spaces, but the lock on is optional, blocking seems to work 360 so don't worry aobut which way you're facing if it goes wrong.  Attacks can be guided with left stick when not locked on.  Keep your cool and he's very doable. 

 

Believe, he dies in seconds every time now.   Once you learn the 'trick' to each enemy, they become much more manageable. 

 

Oh he is gone, dont worry about that. In the end I had him posting on a different Forum telling people about a coke fuelled Shinobi that just kept coming at him  the only reason I stopped attacking him was when he perfect deflected an attack. That would switch me up to defend a bit, then I would attack again once his flurry was done. With the thrust attacks I just dodged around and then got some hits on him immediately after. I thought it would be his health that gave in first but turns out me being so aggressive in attacking and also chipping at his health meant that in the end his posture bar was like the LED on KITT's front bumper.

[robdood]

Also - buy/practice Mikiri Counter.  Shinobi level 9000 will be yours. 

[MardiganX]

Just now, robdood said:

Also - buy/practice Mikiri Counter.  Shinobi level 9000 will be yours. 

 

Got it. Only using it for the slow as fuck standard spear dudes as the warning from them is almost like bullet time being activated once you get over the initial "nope".

 

I'm really struggling to differentiate between sweep and thrust attacks, which is why I'm not using the mikiri counter a lot. Is it just recognising the movement before the attack I need to get good with or is there something else I should look out for?

[Strafe]

I think the best fight in the game is Genichiro. There’s a lot of sword clashing, if you get the technique and parrying down you can go full on aggressive in his face rather than having to run in and chip away attrition style.

 

I also especially like how he (and others) get more tired as health bars go down and posture bars go up, so there’s a point say, half way into his final phase where you know you have him and can just go bananas. Lady Butterfly is similar in this respect too.

 

Don’t get me wrong, I love (most of) the other bosses and had a lot of fun with, say, the Ape but there’s a lot of running around waiting for the right time to attack in some of them.

 

I’d love a medieval/Souls type setting with proper sword clashing combat like in Sekiro. Combat is great in actual Souls/Elden Ring but nothing else I’ve played comes close to Sekiro’s.

[Strafe]

4 minutes ago, MardiganX said:

 

Got it. Only using it for the slow as fuck standard spear dudes as the warning from them is almost like bullet time being activated once you get over the initial "nope".

 

I'm really struggling to differentiate between sweep and thrust attacks, which is why I'm not using the mikiri counter a lot. Is it just recognising the movement before the attack I need to get good with or is there something else I should look out for?

It’s watching what they do as far as I know. There will be a wind up/tell in the animation that differentiates between a sweep and a thrust.

[Ravern]

If you're like me you try to learn the wind up animation then get thrown by the kanji and noise and just mash whatever.

[MardiganX]

2 minutes ago, Ravern said:

If you're like me you try to learn the wind up animation then get thrown by the kanji and noise and just mash whatever.

 

Yeah, that is exactly where I am with it right now. I wouldn't be surprised if the symbols that flash up translate to variations of 'You're fucked', 'MWWHAHAHAHA' and 'Fatality'.

[Talvalin]

2 hours ago, Strafe said:

It’s watching what they do as far as I know. There will be a wind up/tell in the animation that differentiates between a sweep and a thrust.

 

Exactly this. You also have more time than you think between the symbol flashing up and the actual attack coming out, so you need to wait for the animation tell (a pull back for a thrust attack, or a wind-up for a sweep attack) and then take the appropriate action. It's better to practice on the early bosses than to still be shit at judging Perilous Attacks when you're dealing with end-game bosses who can one-shot you if you get it wrong (which was what happened to me).

 

It's also true to say that some enemies tend to one or the other, and so the probability of getting it right increases if you just spam one type of defence (eg: the spear dudes tend to thrust more than sweep), but remember not to forget about grab attacks that you have to dodge rather than jump or Mikiri Counter. The first phase of the final boss did nothing but thrust and sweep attacks for a couple of hours of my flailing at them, then randomly pulled out a grab attack that one-shotted me because I didn't recognise the animation and sat there slack-jawed whilst my health went from 90% to zero in one go.

[Benny]

The most terrifying grab attack in games is

 

Spoiler

The Headless. Nothing quite compares to being chased and backed into a corner by that horrifying grabby hand and seeing it getting literally shoved up Wolf's arsehole.

 

[Strafe]

The best grab is when the Ogre reverse throws you off a cliff. 

[Number 28]

It's some Japanese folklore that your soul exists

Spoiler

as a ball literally up your anus and there are spirits that forcefully get their hand up there and rip it out. It's also alluded to in Elden Ring,

Spoiler

with the Dung Eater leaving victims with blood running down the thighs. Lovely stuff.

 

[Talvalin]

1 hour ago, Strafe said:

The best grab is when the Ogre reverse throws you off a cliff. 

 

Funny you mention that.

 

I found out the hard way that that grab does a shit tonne of damage on NG+ so I was basically one-shotted, despite having nine prayer necklaces to my name (missed out on the tenth during NG because one of the mini-bosses buggered off after I hit a story event).

 

Which is another point to note - make sure you kill all of the mini-bosses in Ashina Castle as you come across them as some of them get replaced and so you will lose out on prayer beads.

[MardiganX]

19 minutes ago, Talvalin said:

Which is another point to note - make sure you kill all of the mini-bosses in Ashina Castle as you come across them as some of them get replaced and so you will lose out on prayer beads.

 

I'm up to a Dojo tower thing in the castle at the moment and as far as I'm aware the only mini-boss I have ignored (mainly because you need to take out 10 enemies before setting up a 1v1) is the Seven Spears dude. I think there is other stuff I have missed before the Dojo tower mini-boss (who was actually quite easy after a couple of goes) so will venture back for a bit the next time I am on.

 

My overarching point is most of the time I have absolutely no idea where I am meant to be going and I really like that, but potentially missing out on very important upgrade items because you have no idea some sections even exist is a bit shit. Are we meant to consult a guide to ensure we get everything or just hope our wandering hits the majority of what we need to remain competitive?

[Benny]

It's a From game so the answer is yes.

[PikaStu]

Gathered my thoughts, bought the fire cracker, and took down that fucker on his horse! It was close, I had only a sliver of energy left, but it was enough!

[robdood]

13 hours ago, MardiganX said:

My overarching point is most of the time I have absolutely no idea where I am meant to be going and I really like that, but potentially missing out on very important upgrade items because you have no idea some sections even exist is a bit shit. Are we meant to consult a guide to ensure we get everything or just hope our wandering hits the majority of what we need to remain competitive?

You can find about 95% of what the game has to offer without a guide, I'd say. 

 

Don't sweat it, the 'upgrades' are optional, to an extent.   Just keep going.  You have to go to (almost) every area to complete the game so you won't miss much. 

[robdood]

13 hours ago, Talvalin said:

 

Funny you mention that.

 

 

I found out the hard way that that grab does a shit tonne of damage on NG+ so I was basically one-shotted, despite having nine prayer necklaces to my name (missed out on the tenth during NG because one of the mini-bosses buggered off after I hit a story event).

 

Which is another point to note - make sure you kill all of the mini-bosses in Ashina Castle as you come across them as some of them get replaced and so you will lose out on prayer beads.

Dude you missed not just one but two grapple chances after he grabbed you..!! 

[Number 28]

Isn't it possible to buy unattainable prayer beads from the shrine next to Hanbei the Undying? I can't remember whether or not that's a thing.

[Strafe]

3 minutes ago, Number 28 said:

Isn't it possible to buy unattainable prayer beads from the shrine next to Hanbei the Undying? I can't remember whether or not that's a thing.

I think so, if the person carrying them dies.