Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice

[MardiganX]

@Talvalin on the resurrections, the thinking being I keep one for each phase since you cant access resurrections without a deathblow following your last one (unless I use a Jizu statue)?

 

Spoiler

I have 'met' with the Demon of Hatred and despite getting him down a fair bit didnt go back to him after I found the way back to the Reservoir. I spent HOURS progressing along that optional route taking out two mini-bosses as I went before finally realising the path back to the Reservoir was at the Castle gate stairs all along 🥴 the lack of map was never an issue up until that point where I had to go back to an area that I was last at about 40 hours and 1200 deaths ago. But I do intend to sort him out at the very least for the attack upgrade before properly settling in with Ishin.

 

My wife said to me the other day "There's something wrong with your pad" to which I replied "There's a dead guy holding it"  I promise that's me done on the references!

[Gigawatt]

@MardiganX you are me from about a month ago.  No kidding I must have taken over 200 attempts to get through the final boss but it was worth it.  By the time I could do it I was able to zen through the first 2 phases being super aggressive and barely taking a scratch.  I didn't use any of the abilities as I'd long run out of spirit emblems by then (you can still use Mortal Draw though).  Stick at it and you will get there and it will feel amazing.

[MardiganX]

1 hour ago, Gigawatt said:

@MardiganX you are me from about a month ago.  No kidding I must have taken over 200 attempts to get through the final boss but it was worth it.  By the time I could do it I was able to zen through the first 2 phases being super aggressive and barely taking a scratch.  I didn't use any of the abilities as I'd long run out of spirit emblems by then (you can still use Mortal Draw though).  Stick at it and you will get there and it will feel amazing.

 

I'm sorry, WHAT?!?!!

[Talvalin]

2 hours ago, Gigawatt said:

@MardiganX I didn't use any of the abilities as I'd long run out of spirit emblems by then (you can still use Mortal Draw though).

 

Clearly I wasn't using my Prosthetic Tool or abilities enough, because I beat all of the bosses and sub-bosses (minus that one guy I missed) and I never ran out of spirit emblems.

 

Also be aware that abilities that normally require Spirit Emblems but can still be fine without them will do much less health/posture damage.

 

I have a feeling that I completely forgot about my abilities with the final boss and just used my sword and nothing else. Maybe.

[Gigawatt]

43 minutes ago, MardiganX said:

 

I'm sorry, WHAT?!?!!

 

It does a bit less damage but it's still useful in the first phase against Genichiro.  In the next 3 phases I didn't bother using it at all.

[MardiganX]

There is no doubt there are some bosses that are much easier with the use of certain prosthetics but I've never felt that anything other than a really good knowledge of each enemies attacks and how to defend against them was what I needed. Its that 'defend against them' that is the biggest thing for me. No action game has ever embraced that art of defence like Sekiro and its a masterpiece for it, which sadly wont ever get the attention it deserves. It took me a long time to realise and then even longer to implement it but that defending and being great at it is more important than actually attacking. If you cant learn to live in that little pocket where death is a single missed deflection away then just stay at home

 

 

 

[carlospie]

I'm right near the start but keeping getting wrecked by a white shinobi with a spear and two lives? Is this the wrong way? Not fought any major bosses yet I don't think 

[Number 28]

Is that the Shinobi Hunter in the Hirata Estate flashback? Concentrate on unlocking the Mikiri Counter skill if you haven't already and maybe continue on the Ashina Outskirts route first if you're struggling.

[Talvalin]

3 hours ago, carlospie said:

I'm right near the start but keeping getting wrecked by a white shinobi with a spear and two lives? Is this the wrong way? Not fought any major bosses yet I don't think 

 

What @Number 28 said. You should have picked up the Flame Barrel by that stage, which you can turn into a Prosthetic Tool to use against red-eyed enemies who are weak against fire, specifically a mini-boss in the Ashina Outskirts. If you have picked up a Sugar that improves your stealth ability, you can get in a sneaky Deathblow to remove one of its health bars.

[MardiganX]

If it is that Hirata Estate section @carlospie then that was real hurdle for me too. There were lots of enemies and sections where my flowing, care free progress smashed into a wall and this was an early one. The key for that bit is getting the spear hunter on his own, so as @Talvalinsays get the stealth deathblow by sneaking up the left hand side then quickly try to take out the 'standard' enemy near him. The enemies slightly further ahead should only get involved if you hang around that path so get back to the bridge and use the tree above the bridge to take a breather  you can then jump down to deal with the mini-boss at your leisure as he cant hit you then get back to the tree if you need a moment. Of course, having Mikiri counter and just taking the piss out of him is what you should really be doing, but at that stage of the game at the least honour can go fuck itself  

[carlospie]

Cheer all 

When I kill people and there are little circles floating over them, how do I pick them up? Sorry I did the tutorial ages ago and didn't play again for ages

[Strafe]

Hold Square or X or your regional equivalent!

[MardiganX]

Decided to go back and deal with DoH before the end game and I take back everything positive I’ve ever said. It’s like a boss from Dark Souls that they put in their to remind me how awful they can make playing their games feel 😕

[dug]

2 hours ago, MardiganX said:

Decided to go back and deal with DoH before the end game and I take back everything positive I’ve ever said. It’s like a boss from Dark Souls that they put in their to remind me how awful they can make playing their games feel 😕

 

Yeah, as much as I love Sekiro, I think DoH was a real misstep. The whole game teaches you a new style of fighting, being ultra aggressive and deflecting enemy attacks, with each boss being an increasingly difficult test of your skill at this specific style. Then it lobs a boss at you which you can't fight like that. It's like "hey, you know all those skills you've been building up for the last however many hours? Forget all that lol"

 

I don't know what From were going for with it.

[JPL]

1 hour ago, dug said:

 

Yeah, as much as I love Sekiro, I think DoH was a real misstep. The whole game teaches you a new style of fighting, being ultra aggressive and deflecting enemy attacks, with each boss being an increasingly difficult test of your skill at this specific style. Then it lobs a boss at you which you can't fight like that. It's like "hey, you know all those skills you've been building up for the last however many hours? Forget all that lol"

 

I don't know what From were going for with it.

Just From being From.

[MardiganX]

I’m not even joking when I say DoH really has tainted my overwhelming enjoyment of the game as a whole. It’s just so fucking boring and awful compared to the thrilling and rewarding experience of every single other battle in the game.

[Talvalin]

I agree that it's one of the worst fights. That said, it is possible to be aggressive once you've knocked off a chunk of health first. If it is pissing you off that much, the Interwebz will reveal a method to cheese the entire fight if you can't be fucked (I warn you that it does involve some platforming which one person said was harder to pull off than beating the DoH legitimately. I will give this method a shot in NG+ to see for myself, since that is required to get all the Lapis Lazuli for Prosthetic Tool upgrades bah).

 

The Flame-proof Umbrella is your friend but the key item is the final Whistle upgrade. The Whistle can be used up to three times in the fight and it will stun the DoH for about 10 seconds (don't quote me on this!) which can allow you to almost entirely skip the third phase by stunning, using some Divine Confetti, battering the shit out of it and then repeating.

[MardiganX]

It’s more than possible to be aggressive, it’s absolutely essential but your incredible armoury of defensive abilities are useless so it becomes an exercise in circle strafing and hoping to get lucky with the draw on its move choices

 

Its a terrible part of what is otherwise a masterpiece, but the fact it’s right at the end emphasises that it’s simply unnecessary. Yes it’s optional but it feels too important as part of the journey and the characters to ignore. The only saving grace is you can immediately go back into frying pan every time you get smashed. Ooooooh what fun!

[Talvalin]

If you've been chatting to the NPCs and giving the key NPCs sake, you should have worked out what or rather who the DoH is. However, Sekiro himself is unable to figure it out unless you eavesdropped on a very specific conversation, leading to a rather hilarious post-battle conversation with that old lady in the nearby building where you first met the Tengu of Ashina.

[MardiganX]

Yeah, even without the Sake Express side mission it should be fairly obvious who becomes the fiery wanker! The path to him is a brilliantly challenging and visually stunning redux of previously explored sections, which makes the actual encounter with him all the more ffffffffucking frustrating.

 

What annoys me the most is I have earned every single Shinobi Execution through a lot of practice and I’m not afraid to say it, skill. Only to be met with a battle that requires none of that beautiful die, learn, do that a lot, become amazing, win, mechanic. I’m not doing anything else until he is beaten no matter how slowly and boringly I need to do it as I refuse to let this terribly judged section detract from one of the greatest games of all time.

[Talvalin]

When you do beat him, you will cheer before going back to possibly the best fight in the entire game (but you already knew that).

[MardiganX]

7 hours ago, Talvalin said:

When you do beat him, you will cheer before going back to possibly the best fight in the entire game (but you already knew that).

Done!

 

In the end I limited my attack windows to a couple of very clear openings, baited him into his big swing, swing, slam attack every chance I got and beat his final phase the first time I got to it. I’m glad it’s done, but unlike every other boss fight in the game I will never go back to it.

 

Onto the finale now and ready to switch back to that version of Wolf that remembers he is actually a Shinobi Death Dealer.

[MardiganX]

IMMORTALITY SEVERED

 

I don’t really know how to describe the last few hours I’ve had playing Sekiro. It’s been the most intense and rewarding gaming experience I might have ever had. In the end I finished the final boss without using any resurrections. I don’t really know how I did that, but even a few minutes before beating his final form I knew I was going to do it. It didn’t matter what he used I knew how to deal with it, what was coming next and what to follow up with. 
 

I’ve made a big thing about my dislike of From games and part of me hates them more now because it’s clear they can produce a game with insane difficulty but make every part of it fun and exhilarating. No other action game I’ve ever played has made defending the core mechanic of its system, no doubt because it’s a very difficult thing to get right, but even harder to make enjoyable. Sekiro has redefined action games for me and I’m now worried I’m not going to enjoy other games as much as I would have had I not (finally) played Sekiro.

 

I suppose it’s straight into #2 then? Is that NG+ so all your gear, attack / defence upgrades and the difficulty ramped up to ‘FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU!!!’?

[Benny]

You should definitely at least pop into NG+ for a bit. You'll be amazed how deadly you are now.

[MardiganX]

I've looked at a few vids now the main story is done and have seen things that make no sense.

 

Spoiler

Wolf fighting Emma. Wolf fighting a pre-Genechiro rebirthing Ishin. Wolf fighting Owl in Lady Butterflies burning building. Wolf using some kind of counter where he jumps into air like V in DMC 3 and reverses Ishin's lightning attack. Wolf splitting the Umbrella like two purple blades and seemingly using it to gain invincible frames as he attacks with it.

 

🤪

 

I mean, have I actually missed huge chunks of the game because of a certain choice or is this NG+ stuff I have to look forward to?

 

Keep in mind my traumatic past with Dark / Demon Souls and Bloodborne when I ask this guys. Should I move onto Elden Ring or is it going to eventually depress me like other From games have? 

[Kayin Amoh]

You've missed stuff via your choices, but you can only go one route at a time so it's also technically for NG+. (Also, there's special versions of some bosses in the gauntlet you can access at shrines through doing the boss runs - you also get some cool skins.)

[Benny]

You've missed the same stuff I did. I still intend to go back to NG+ at some point and do those too. Eventually.

[robdood]

4 hours ago, MardiganX said:

I've looked at a few vids now the main story is done and have seen things that make no sense.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Wolf fighting Emma. Wolf fighting a pre-Genechiro rebirthing Ishin. Wolf fighting Owl in Lady Butterflies burning building. Wolf using some kind of counter where he jumps into air like V in DMC 3 and reverses Ishin's lightning attack. Wolf splitting the Umbrella like two purple blades and seemingly using it to gain invincible frames as he attacks with it.

 

🤪

 

I mean, have I actually missed huge chunks of the game because of a certain choice or is this NG+ stuff I have to look forward to?

 

Keep in mind my traumatic past with Dark / Demon Souls and Bloodborne when I ask this guys. Should I move onto Elden Ring or is it going to eventually depress me like other From games have? 

No harm in reading a guide at this point, I don't think!!

 

I'd actually go for the other 'stuff' on a normal new game, NG+ is pretty hard later in the game, imo!! 

 

As for Elden Ring, it's not really like Sekiro.  It's a lot more like Souls. 

 

HOWEVER! The open world really makes it something magical.  You don't need to bang your head against bosses because there is literally a GIANT overworld to explore which is by far the best bit.  It's also their 'easiest' game by a long shot, as it has great tools to help you tucked away in that giant world.  It's almost it's own thing.  It's definitely the best open world game I've ever played. 

[Talvalin]

4 hours ago, MardiganX said:

I've looked at a few vids now the main story is done and have seen things that make no sense.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Wolf fighting Emma. Wolf fighting a pre-Genechiro rebirthing Ishin. Wolf fighting Owl in Lady Butterflies burning building. Wolf using some kind of counter where he jumps into air like V in DMC 3 and reverses Ishin's lightning attack. Wolf splitting the Umbrella like two purple blades and seemingly using it to gain invincible frames as he attacks with it.

 

 

Spoiler

Wolf fighting Emma

 

When you meet Owl at the top of the castle, if you choose the other option you get to fight Emma.

 

Wolf fighting a pre-Genechiro rebirthing Ishin.

 

Not sure. Possibly one of the free DLC boss variations?

 

Wolf fighting Owl in Lady Butterflies burning building.

 

I may have blatantly used a guide for this, but when Kuro first comes up with his master plan, you can eavesdrop on him talking to himself, then chat to Emma about a way of saving Kuro (I assume you got the ending where Kuro dies?), eavesdrop on Emma talking to the Sculptor then you get an item that lets you revisit the Hirata Estate and fight Owl again (this fight is a lot harder than the first one!)

 

Wolf using some kind of counter where he jumps into air like V in DMC 3 and reverses Ishin's lightning attack.

 

Didn't you get a prompt about this when fighting Genichiro? Which means you beat Ishin's final form without doing a reversal? Damn.

 

Wolf splitting the Umbrella like two purple blades and seemingly using it to gain invincible frames as he attacks with it.

 

The purple umbrella is a Prosthetic Tool upgrade that protects you against Terror attacks. The splitting move is a skill you can buy that allows you to do a counter attack after absorbing damage with the umbrella. It was very useful against the DoH and also the Headless enemies. Of you didn't fight them you should totally get this skill first.

 

 

[MardiganX]

1 hour ago, Talvalin said:

 

  Hide contents

Wolf fighting Emma

 

When you meet Owl at the top of the castle, if you choose the other option you get to fight Emma.

 

Wolf fighting a pre-Genechiro rebirthing Ishin.

 

Not sure. Possibly one of the free DLC boss variations?

 

Wolf fighting Owl in Lady Butterflies burning building.

 

I may have blatantly used a guide for this, but when Kuro first comes up with his master plan, you can eavesdrop on him talking to himself, then chat to Emma about a way of saving Kuro (I assume you got the ending where Kuro dies?), eavesdrop on Emma talking to the Sculptor then you get an item that lets you revisit the Hirata Estate and fight Owl again (this fight is a lot harder than the first one!)

 

Wolf using some kind of counter where he jumps into air like V in DMC 3 and reverses Ishin's lightning attack.

 

Didn't you get a prompt about this when fighting Genichiro? Which means you beat Ishin's final form without doing a reversal? Damn.

 

Wolf splitting the Umbrella like two purple blades and seemingly using it to gain invincible frames as he attacks with it.

 

The purple umbrella is a Prosthetic Tool upgrade that protects you against Terror attacks. The splitting move is a skill you can buy that allows you to do a counter attack after absorbing damage with the umbrella. It was very useful against the DoH and also the Headless enemies. Of you didn't fight them you should totally get this skill first.

 

 

 

 

 

Spoiler

Not sure. Possibly one of the free DLC boss variations?

 

This fight was against the old, frail version of him and it was at the top of Castle where you fight Genechiro and Owl.

 

I may have blatantly used a guide for this, but when Kuro first comes up with his master plan, you can eavesdrop on him talking to himself, then chat to Emma about a way of saving Kuro (I assume you got the ending where Kuro dies?), eavesdrop on Emma talking to the Sculptor then you get an item that lets you revisit the Hirata Estate and fight Owl again (this fight is a lot harder than the first one!)

 

Well shit! I didn't want the little guy to die so now really wish I had known about this.

 

Didn't you get a prompt about this when fighting Genichiro? Which means you beat Ishin's final form without doing a reversal? Damn.

I must have totally missed it if there was a prompt because the only reversal I was aware of was the lightning ones and any bolts I did manage catch in the air the reversal missed Ishin on landing. This thing I seen was different though as Wolf looked like he almost teleported straight up before landing a big hit. I got into a pattern of Mikiri countering all of his thrust attacks and by the end was probably more aggressive than it was safe to be, but it made my skin crawl any time I seen his posture bar trickle back down so keeping him engaged was my priority. On some of my unsuccessful attempts I went a long time with almost zero health because I didnt want to retreat to heal as it would let him recover posture  madness I know!

 

The purple umbrella is a Prosthetic Tool upgrade that protects you against Terror attacks. The splitting move is a skill you can buy that allows you to do a counter attack after absorbing damage with the umbrella. It was very useful against the DoH and also the Headless enemies. Of you didn't fight them you should totally get this skill first.

3 of the 4 Headless and the DoH have been executed so this would have no doubt made those battles a fair bit easier, haha. For the Headless battles I wore a Divine Confetti Tuxedo and more or less brute forced the win with no regard for 'how do I avoid these attacks'  very messy but it helped me hitting them at a point where my attack power was higher than the baseline expected for them.