Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice

[squirtle]

2 minutes ago, MardiganX said:

 

That's fairly standard for every action game though, especially where the combat is based on you learning certain techniques to make you more powerful. Plus with Sekiro its actually more understandable because most of the time you are working to reduce posture and so the majority of your attacks get blocked in some way.

But that's the thing. You have to be aggressive to keep the posture damage, because when bosses are at full health, any break in attack sees the posture reset very quickly. So you need to whittle their health down in order for the posture damage to remain where it is when you take a break. And that is what I meant when I said the game wants you to be aggressive as that is the only way to really keep their posture damage up. I know you can parry a lot, but the game has a very high punishment level for failure. It's the constant high level of perfection that it requires of you, and the punishments being so harsh for failure, that leads to my frustrations with the game. If my hits did a little more damage which then led to a quicker build up of posture damage, I would like it more. As it is, the time it takes with most bosses to get their health down to get the posture damage to stick is too long.

[MardiganX]

But defending and defending really good is actually a better way to keep the posture damage increasing. The rhythm I adopted was to work out how to defend all of any enemies attack as that was my best way to increase posture and once I had that, figure out where I could be aggressive to deal health damage off the back of some solid defending. Then repeat that flow. The best way to defeat any enemy, and this is my favourite thing about the game because it completely flips the action game genre on its head, is for defending to be your best weapon

 

Most of the time if you defend well, the only actual attack you need is the deathblow that the solid defending opens up for you. Of course its not as simple as that with stronger enemies and bosses, but the flow or the process is the same, just repeated or expanded depending on the enemy / boss.

 

 

[PikaStu]

For me it’s the timing of the parry / deflect that’s the problem. I’m on pretty strong pain killers which affect my reaction time, so the timing of the enemy attack -> parry is lost on me 😂

Pretty much the reason why I suck at From’s games (my progress in Elden Ring is due to luck / summons / cheesing the bosses where possible!).

 

I think it was mentioned earlier in the thread, that holding LB to block, then releasing and pressing LB when attacked was a good technique? 

[MardiganX]

20 minutes ago, PikaStu said:

I think it was mentioned earlier in the thread, that holding LB to block, then releasing and pressing LB when attacked was a good technique? 

Yeah, that should be the default technique at least to start and then you can loosen it a little so you become quicker at moving as things progress, since blocking almost brings your movement to a halt.

 

The big thing for me in the final third was letting go of using evade as much as I was and just getting comfortable sitting in front of attacks and deflecting them. It’s not easy and it necessitates a lot of deaths but when you get used to that style of play then the game becomes something completely different.

 

 

[squirtle]

I'm up to the final boss and I cannot be bothered. Four fights to get through. One lapse of concentration and half your health is gone on either Genichiro or Ishin The Sword Saint. It's so unbalanced in these fights. I really like the moment to moment play in this but the bosses are just boring. This has been the tipping point for me in From believing their own Git Gud hype train. It's gone beyond enjoyable and tense into monotony and boredom. I'm glad I saw all the way to the end and maybe I will come back to it, but it's about 15 minutes an attempt and that's just too long to sustain that elevated level of play for me. This really is their weakest game since Demon Souls for me.

[Benny]

The final boss took me hours. But beating it was the best experience I've ever had in a From game.

 

I don't think it's their best, but it's the most razor focussed.

 

Maybe third best.

[squirtle]

7 minutes ago, Benny said:

The final boss took me hours. But beating it was the best experience I've ever had in a From game.

 

Yeah, balls to that.

[HarryBizzle]

Best fight in any From game by quite some distance. It is quite annoying when someone (probably Benny) tells you that youI’ll be smashing the first few stages in  no time at all but it really is worth it and he’s absolutely right. 
 

ISS isn’t really about raw skill - once you recognise his attacks and know how to counter them, he’s not that difficult. The final stage is probably the easiest so long as you know how to do the requisite counter properly. 

[Benny]

I certainly would never suggest you'd be smashing the first few stages in no time at all. As it can take a lot of work and is very player dependent.

[PikaStu]

It’ll be a long time before I’m thinking about the final boss! 
 

I finally beat the Flaming Bull. I had to play it super safe, so it took ages. 
 

On my way into the castle now… got a bunch of guys guarding a doorway at the top of some steps, including a samurai general. Plenty of nooks and crannies to explore though, and I’ve been practicing the parry, and generally being more offensive towards the regular enemies. I’m having fun again! 😂

[HarryBizzle]

45 minutes ago, Benny said:

I certainly would never suggest you'd be smashing the first few stages in no time at all. As it can take a lot of work and is very player dependent.

This you?

 

Spoiler

 

Though that is specific to the very first stage, I suppose. 

[Benny]

I'm pretty consistent in what I mean there: I'm not saying you will be smashing through the first stages in no time at all - as it takes a long time to practice them. But once you achieve enough mastery, and are "ready" you will then be at the point where you're smashing through those stages on retries.

[Benny]

Also pro tip:

 

Please don't use "this you?" type comments - it's one of the worst little lasting turns of phrase we got from the toxic discourse of Twitter, and it's only ever used when people want to be arseholes to each other with little "gotchas".

 

Use it when someone is genuinely being unpleasant, or not at all. And definitely not when it's based on faulty assumptions about intent and meaning. Which is basically what all arguments on Twitter end up being at times.

 

You probably didn't mean it that way but it gets my goat that one.

[MardiganX]

On 25/11/2022 at 16:27, squirtle said:

I'm up to the final boss and I cannot be bothered. Four fights to get through. One lapse of concentration and half your health is gone on either Genichiro or Ishin The Sword Saint. It's so unbalanced in these fights. I really like the moment to moment play in this but the bosses are just boring. This has been the tipping point for me in From believing their own Git Gud hype train. It's gone beyond enjoyable and tense into monotony and boredom. I'm glad I saw all the way to the end and maybe I will come back to it, but it's about 15 minutes an attempt and that's just too long to sustain that elevated level of play for me. This really is their weakest game since Demon Souls for me.

SeKiro is different from every From game because it demands the player to become strong with the core mechanics rather than having an ever increasing stat requirement for you to hit. If the focus on pure technical gameplay feels boring, especially by the time you get to the final boss, then that’s never going to change.

 

How would you compare the final boss run on Sekiro to Elden Ring? I assume you’ve played that other wise ignore the ask  for me that finale was everything you describe Sekiros to be, with ER having none of the technical beauty to it and instead is just another dodge roll / sprint to enemy hit point obstacle course. 
 

Where every other From game lets you away with murder provided you have high enough stats and buffs, Sekiro has none of that, instead asking you to apply everything you are assumed to have learned by each point. I must have tried close to 100 times on the final Sekiro boss but every encounter was a buzz because I could feel myself improving each time. By the final run I wasn’t even using the counter mechanic @HarryBizzle refers to and like every single enemy and boss encounter before it was approaching it in a way that allowed me to stay in control.

 

The best way to do it is not be trying to beat the entire thing each time, instead focussing on a particular phase until you are comfortable with everything you need to do in it. Once you get a handle on a phase only then look beyond it. You will of course still get punished and taken out on phases you have got well dialled in but that’s why I love the game so much. This is the only From game that I would genuinely say has a ‘git gud’ aspect to it. There are no shortcuts to beating it and if you’ve got this far you are clearly capable and just need the time and focus to break it down. 

[Qazimod]

Things that helped the final boss sequence for me:

 

Spoiler

With G: don't run away from the Mortal Blade attack - you'll get tagged. Circling around him when he charges seems to be better. Also, punish the big leaping lunge thing.

 

With ISS: you can punish the "cross-slash" - where he sheathes his sword and swings vertically and horizontally. For phase 2 and onwards: you can easily punish the leaping overhead where he spins about and almost ends with his back to you. Also, be aware of how you're circle-strafing when locked on - you can seemingly do tight or wide circles depending on how you hold the analogue stick, and you can still get hit by gunfire if you're not circling correctly.

 

(Also, the Suzaku Lotus Umbrella prosthetic combined with the Projected Force skill (the R2->R1 counter) is free damage - well, free for as long as your resources last. )

 

You could also parry everything and just work the posture, but I feel like getting out of the

 

Spoiler

100% posture regeneration speed

 

threshold takes the edge off these battles

[PikaStu]

I’ve sunk countless more hours into this, but I’m still struggling to beat Lady Butterfly and Genchiro (when he starts using the lightning attack - I need the bloody Gun Fort Key off him).

Ive killed everything else that moves, except the headless dudes because, well, screw them 😂

 

 

[Number 28]

2 hours ago, PikaStu said:

Genchiro (when he starts using the lightning attack

Are you reversing it?

[PikaStu]

37 minutes ago, Number 28 said:

Are you reversing it?

Trying to yeah, but by the time I get to that bit, my energy is low as hell, so one mis-timed jump and reversal and I’m toast. 

[MardiganX]

I never bothered reversing any of Genechiro attacks, instead evading them and the huge down slash he does. Evade those, aim to parry everything else and once your comfortable reading his attacks stay in his face. It’s where the real Sekiro begins once you deal with that epic encounter.

 

I was the same with Lady Butterfly. Had to leave her until I was upgraded a bit, even after Genechiro I think it was. It was all about dealing with her second phase projectiles and again once you can read her attacks staying close to her so she can’t abuse her projectile bullshit.

[HarryBizzle]

13 minutes ago, PikaStu said:

Trying to yeah, but by the time I get to that bit, my energy is low as hell, so one mis-timed jump and reversal and I’m toast. 

 

They game is rubbish at explaining how to do a LR.

 

 

[PikaStu]

@HarryBizzleNice one, thanks. I’ve been watching some “Sekiro Guru” videos to help with bosses, but he skipped over the best technique for this. 

 

[Qazimod]

One thing that took me ages to get used to was the timing of the jump. You have to delay your jump for longer than you're comfortable waiting  otherwise you'll land again before anything's even hit you.