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Slay the Spire - Roguelike Card-em-up


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4 hours ago, footle said:

Finally killed the transient. That’s taken me a looooong time.


Wow. Impressed. I've never even come close. I've had one deck that turn-1 killed a returning Act 1 boss in a later act's Event. That might have done the trick, I suppose.

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23 hours ago, Benny said:

I don't even know how you go about doing that. Infinite combos?


Defect, four storm (lightning orb on every power), creative ai, lots of other powers.. then thunder strike and a duplication potion (though I didn’t need the duplication potion). It was quite a ridiculous build: I was thunder striking for 600 damage or something similarly ridiculous.

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Just had an interesting Silent run. No great damage multipliers, just three Sneaky Strikes and a Tools of the Trade to do damage. Two blurs and additional draw to keep them in play and stacking, and cards to gain energy or card draw when sacrificed to a discard.

 

Had the Awakened One, and it took 24 turns to take him down. During which time I only lost 7 HP.

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49 minutes ago, Bushtopher said:

I’m really struggling to get to the heart with the Silent on ascension 2 (normal enemies are tougher). Just can’t seem to find a deck that works for me. Have made it to Act 3 once but died pretty quickly. 
 

Any advice?


It shouldn’t be much different from ascension 1 really. Shivs and accuracy or poison and catalyst... and probably not both. More block?

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Block is what gets me with Silent. Couple or three Blurs means that block can stack and remain over time, but you need a turn or two when you're likely to get two Blurs in play so the 'don't lose defence' stacks to persist over two rounds. Any more blurs after that keeps that effect topped up so you never lose defence at the end of the round. Get the pincers/pliers relic (I didn't) and you're golden.

 

This last run was A1. I had Survivor, 2xBlur+, 5xDefend for defence, so I only picked up 2 Blurs for more defence in the entire run. I was up to 125 defence against the Awakened one at times, and only lost 7 HP over 24 rounds. No poison, no shivs.

 

Two factors made this possible - Energy generation and Card draw.

 

Energy Generation, I had Tactician and Tactician+ (energy when discarded), Adrenaline+ in a jar relic (one-time boost) and Outmaneuver+ (extra energy next turn);

 

Card Draw I had Calculated Gamble (discard hand & replace), Acrobatics (draw 3 discard 1), Reflex+ (draw 2 when discarded).

 

The engine for this was discard, provided by Tools of the Trade+ (and Survivor, the starter defence/discard card, plus those Calculated Gamble and Acrobatics).

 

So once I had Tools of the Trade out, each turn I'd start by discarding one card - if that was a Tactician or Reflex, I'd get an energy or draw bonus. I could then dish any damage with Sneaky Strikes effectively for free (I had three of 'em). I could use Calculated gamble or Reflex+ to pull in more cards, to get a Blur back in play, and also gain more energy or draw through discarding a second Tactician or Reflex. Once I had some extra energy in play, I would always spend a point on Outmaneuver to set up the next turn.

 

So on some turns, I'd just spend 6 or 7 points of energy on building defence for a couple of turns with Blurs and any other standard defence card, having spent any Sneaky Strikes I had pulled in. Other bonuses - I had a footwork to buff defence, a Caltrops and the thorns relic to provide damage when attacked, a Glass Knife, Backstab and Backstab+ for a lot of early damage. Any strikes I had were basically ignored unless I had no other use for the energy. I also had the power to retain a card, so I could keep a blur or Tactician back for use in the next round if that made more tactical sense.

 

First time I've won without something like a shiv or poison deck.

 

This tended to lose some early HP because it took time to get going, especially against multiple opponents attacking in the first round. Last Act I basically followed the rest stops...

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25 minutes ago, smac said:

This last run was A1.

 

Thing is, almost anything is viable against A1. I used to pick up Outmanoeuvre regularly but have come to realise it's a bad card unless you're really energy starved or have Ice-cream.

 

31 minutes ago, smac said:

a Glass Knife

 

I'd have upgraded Glass Knife ahead of anything else in your deck. Upgraded it must do the most damage per energy of any card in the game, at least without strength scaling (even then its double hit isn't too shabby in that regard - and it's not like Silent has much viable strength scaling in the first place). 

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Yeah, it was upgraded, I pretty much always take and upgrade Glass Knife when offered.

 

Outmanoeuvre I don't normally take, but it worked in this deck simply because I'd have a point or two extra from the discards to spare, so it allowed me to set up more to spend on additional cards drawn. Deck would have worked fine without it, and the deck was still bloated.

 

I haven't learned the fine art of honing the deck, because I've never really done the Ascensions. Hardly touched the surface, really.

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Yeah it's quite drastic how your ratings of cards will change as you climb the Ascensions. One of the bigger ones with Silent for me was that I was overrating Bouncing Flask and underrating Deadly Poison. Also an A20 deck for me will often have 4 or more Piercing Wails in it, whereas at Ascension 1-2 I rarely used to take it. Oh, and Accuracy. Accuracy is so rarely good at high Ascensions that it feels like a curse if you get it a transform event.

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Yeah, taken me a while to realise that shivs real strength lies with your ability to play a load of attack cards and how that interacts with stuff like Envenom and a Thousand Cuts along with relics like Kunai - rather than the damage they do themselves. Even then I find shivs tricky at higher ascensions. 

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I just love the risk/reward of Prismatic Shard. You could end up completely messing up your solid deck building choices, or it can win you a run in increasingly and hilariously broken ways.

 

I think Ironclad in Wrath is one of the best.

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OK so I've re-evaluated my position on Monster Train. 60 hours on it now, up to Covenant (Ascension) 14, absolutely loving it. I still agree with Nate's assessment that it might not match Spire as a game I'll play for years if not decades to come, but it's really really good.

 

Had two runs on Spire A20 yesterday. Got to The Heart with Ironclad but was 200 damage short, then died to the 2nd Act 3 boss with Silent. Really happy with that. I think Monster Train is helping to slow me down when I play, as misplaying a unit in that can be so catastrophic that I definitely take a bit  more time over my decisions now.

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59 minutes ago, JLM said:

OK so I've re-evaluated my position on Monster Train. 60 hours on it now, up to Covenant (Ascension) 14, absolutely loving it. I still agree with Nate's assessment that it might not match Spire as a game I'll play for years if not decades to come, but it's really really good.

 

Had two runs on Spire A20 yesterday. Got to The Heart with Ironclad but was 200 damage short, then died to the 2nd Act 3 boss with Silent. Really happy with that. I think Monster Train is helping to slow me down when I play, as misplaying a unit in that can be so catastrophic that I definitely take a bit  more time over my decisions now.


FFS. I was hoping it was rubbish so I didnt have another game to consume my life.

 

Ordered.

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I found the first few runs to be a bit bewildering, so I'd encourage you to stick with it. I had a wing man and fellow Spire-fiend to coach me a little bit and I still found some stuff a bit baffling or under-explained. There are more moving parts to it than Spire and it doesn't have quite the same knack for explaining itself. After my first couple of sessions on it I thought I'd drop it shortly afterwards, but once it clicked it got its hooks right in there. I think adding the Tower defense-y/X-com bits to it, and also every single fight having a boss at the end, means that its plate spinning/juggling aspect offers a markedly different experience from Spire despite borrowing many of Spire's ideas. You have to be preparing for hallway fights and elites at the same time and that's a lot of fun for me. I love the classes and I *love* that you get to pick two of them for each run, so you have a ton of combo synergy to find. Also the log book/stat tracking on it is incredible. I want to fill in every bit of that sticker book before I'm done. Music is miles better then Spire. I think the enemies and bosses are much less memorable and I don't think any of these games will quite match Spire's level of polish when it comes to balance etc. But I think MT is leagues ahead of all the other current Spire-likes. Would recommend. Maybe it might even get its own thread one of these days.

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The fact that Spire's balance still holds together as I'm climbing the ascensions is remarkable. I think I'm starting to see the "seams" a bit now though. I'm almost certain there is some sort of arcane deck rigging thing happening with the algorithm at points - I know each encounter is fixed from when you enter it with the deck determined already and the "random" aspects being pre-seeded, a bit like the chances to hit for example in XCOM, but I'm sure there is another level of balancing going on, as at times I've had decks fail on me in almost the exact manner they would need to be ordered to fail, or enemies used exact attacks at times where I lost by a single point of HP.

 

Yes, I've started to believe the game is mocking me and it's not funny.

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  • 2 weeks later...

(Man, this thread is complete gobbledegook if you don't know this game.)

 

I started this for the first time this evening, playing on Switch. I've never really played a card game like this before, and at first I was put off by the overwhelming nature of it all, plus the horrible art style, but then all of a sudden I looked up at the clock and two hours had evaporated.

 

Hmm.

 

Anyway, I died in the first act on my initial go, but on my second run I got as far as getting the final boss in act three down to 8 bollocking HP in his 'awakened' phase before he got me, the twat. Having to start again from the beginning each time is pretty galling, but I definitely felt like I was learning a lot as I went, and it's all very satisfying when everything comes together. It reminds me of Into the Breach quite a lot, in terms of its rogue-like, turn-based design and the way it forces you to think ahead, although I suspect that the RNG elements - which cards you draw and receive, for example - will lead to lots and lots of swearing in the future.

 

Still, I'm intrigued to see why this was voted the forum's GOTY last year over Sekiro and will definitely keep playing!

 

Any tips for complete newbies?

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Turn on fast mode in the settings. It’ll get your go times down to under an hour.


and never look at your total playtime under statistics (86 hours on the iPad, to go with cough on the Xbox, cough on the switch and cough on the PC, though at least on the iPad I’ve got everyone up but the watcher up to the 9-10s in ascensions and a reasonable amount of my time is spent doing daily runs)

 

 

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Also started this recently, completed the first two characters now, when you start to find chains and do massive damage in a turn it's so bloody satisfying. I managed to kill one boss's second health bar (that regenerates it's health to full when you first kill it) in one move, haha. Crazy Shiv/poison and "finisher" c-c-c-combo!

Spoiler

Apply one poison with every attack + tons of shivs + relic that doubles your tenth attack + potion that doubles attack + finisher = profit!

 

Absolutely loving it, I loved the board game Dominion but my wife didn't, this is absolutely scratching that itch (Just like XCom covers my Space Hulk cravings).

 

Going to try and complete all characters once before looking at daily challenges and ascensions, love how unique they each seem. 

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12 hours ago, Jamie John said:

Any tips for complete newbies?

 

3 tips from me:

 

1 - In each hand it matters the order that you play cards. Let's say that you want to play 3 attack cards, but one of them also adds a vulnerability to the enemy (making them take more damage from subsequent attacks). That's the first card you play, because it maximises the damage of all the other attack cards you then play. This usually isn't very important in the first few fights, but as your deck builds, consider carefully the order that you play your cards.

 

2 - Carefully read what each card does when you are offered 3 to choose from. Which card do you need most? One that attacks, defends, one that enhances other cards or one that impacts on your opponent? Do you need any card at all? Around half the time I don't take a card, because if the rest of my deck is good then I'd rather have those good cards come around more often (as your deck ends it is shuffled then renewed afresh) rather then get an average, uncomplimentary or shitty new card.

 

3 - Start to figure out synergies. Synergies are where cards, powers, relics or potions compliment each other. Let's say you have gained 4 identical attack cards in your deck that each deal out 3 damage three times in a row. By themselves they are pretty average cards. But with the right synergies they can be deadly. Suppose you then get a relic that for every 3 times you deal damage, you get 1hp back. Now each time you play one of those cards you will get 1hp back. Now let's imagine that you get a power card that doubles any hp you receive in battle. If you play that power card near the start of combat, you're now getting 2hp back each time you play these attack cards (plus dealing out all those attacks). Now let's suppose you get a relic that makes makes every attack card that uses multiple attacks do twice as many attacks. Now each time you use that attack you get 4hp back (plus all those attacks). Now you get a card that enables your next attack card played to be played twice at no energy cost, so using that the next time you use one of those attack card you can get 8hp back (plus tonnes of attacks at the same time). Now you upgrade those attack cards at rest sites so they deal out 4 attacks instead of 3.... you get the picture. If you avoid taking other, non-complimentary cards in this run, and you try to remove from your deck your shitty starting cards where possible, you will be doing this almost all the time - attacking for big damage whilst simultaneously healing. Basically in this game you need to focus your attention on making some cards in your deck really effective. You do that but buying and selecting the right cards, and getting rid of shitty cards. Of course, you may only be offered stuff that doesn't go together, but the more you play, the more you realise that there are potential synergies everywhere.

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Another tip: too early a focus on one strategy will kill you.

 

yesterday I tried a block deck, but picking barracade too early (retain block) and a card that doubled my block just meant that I didn’t have sufficient attack. So I struggled on through most of act two then died...

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Found a new Ironclad strategy for a recent win - had 3 Firebreathing+ in my deck, each dealing 10pts damage to all enemies whenever I drew a curse or status card. Had 4 curses, and a Power Through to generate wounds. Also benefitted from an Evolve+ to stop those same Status cards choking my hand.

 

Would have been great with a Fiend Fire to finish...

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8 minutes ago, footle said:

Another tip: too early a focus on one strategy will kill you.

 

yesterday I tried a block deck, but picking barracade too early (retain block) and a card that doubled my block just meant that I didn’t have sufficient attack. So I struggled on through most of act two then died...


Yeah, I've had runs where I simply could not damage the bad guys enough each turn. Usually by discarding Strikes too early in the game.

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Cheers all :D

 

I played it for a while again this morning and was getting into it a bit more, although against the tougher enemies I often find that I'm in a race to see whose health depletes first, mine or there's, but it's early days yet.

 

Is it available on Android? I get the impression it would make an excellent mobile game, playing a couple of hands here and there when you've got a spare five minutes.

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