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Slay the Spire - Roguelike Card-em-up


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36 minutes ago, Muz said:

I've done it - the key was Nilry's Codex as it meant having more card choices even though the deck itself was 5 cards. I didn't bother with a heart run thugh when trying to get this achievement I got a fair few heart kills with my infinite decks (all ironclad).

 

 

 

20210218_110646.jpg


Awesome! I was actually going to ask if Nilrys Codex counted as “cards”, if it doesnt then it is God tier!

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2 hours ago, Nate Dogg III said:

Anger and Unceasing Top dies to the Heart though, eh. Unless you also get Torii and Tungsten Rod I suppose.

 

And Time Eater. 


Yeah, I think beat the game is just a standard one rather than a Heart kill, but you are right Time Eater will be a fucker in most cases!

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On 17/02/2021 at 07:56, Garwoofoo said:

Any specific tips for the Watcher? I'm really struggling to get any sort of synergy at all with her. My decks always end up being a load of damage cards and a load of block cards and absolutely nothing clever happening at all.

 

The only things I've really managed are around the stances - one run with a few Flurry of Blows cards which kept cycling around every time I changed stances, but they didn't really do enough damage to make a massive difference. Likewise a Power (can't remember its name) which gave me Block every time I changed stances. But then I was perpetually in Wrath when I didn't want to be, and just wasn't getting the cards out that I needed.

 

It's frustrating me now! I'm pretty good with the other characters but so far completely unable to win with the Watcher even on Ascension 0.

I've been playing a lot with watcher on the switch recently. I find that Dodge and roll (wrong!) is a great blocking card to have a few of and then it's all about unleashing massive damage with well timed wrath. Retained cards are key to this, get a handful of smite cards waiting and you can do 70+ damage (24 each) in a single turn. Getting calm early also helps, with the extra cards. 

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Done it! I got a Peace Pipe literally straight away, which made it quite easy.

 

Rampage+

Pommel Strike+

Double Tap

Defend

Armaments+

 

Throughout the run I kept removing Defends, thinking I would be able to pick up a Shrug it Off or something, but nothing came! So had to leave that single crappy Defend in there. Just before the boss I was offered an Armaments+, which I wanted so I could upgrade the Double Tap (had Fusion Hammer so didnt have an opportunity to upgrade it earlier). I also had the Slavers Collar (+1 energy for bosses and elites) so I had five energy for Time Eater.... I reckon I could have done it (just) with Rampage+, Pommel strike+ and Double Tap+....Rampage gets insane when you can play it four times per turn.

 

4 cards is my next challenge!

 

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21 minutes, bash+, dropkick+, dropkick+. Unceasing top was a pretty useless relic that just sat there, as was ice cream...

 

I’m definitely seeing the value in a low card count, cheat deck with ironclad ;). (I think my only previous 3 card finish was a codex run).

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Got it down to four:

 

Anger+
Demon Form

Pommel Strike+

Shrug it off+

I got down to a small deck really quickly, and it shredded everything in Act 2, usually killing most enemies on turn 1 (had some good relics including bag of marbles).

 

The lack of defence made Act 3 a bit more tricky and I was healing at all the bonfires.

 

Now to get down to a three card win!

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Three card win! Just had an amazing peace pipe run where everything fell into place-

 

Rampage+ 

Shrug it Off+

Shrug it Off+

 

On the final bonfire before the boss, I could have removed another card to make it a two card hand. Every turn would have been Rampage > Shrug > Rampage, so Rampage would get powerful really quickly, but I dont think 11 defence per turn would have been enough.

 

Now aiming for a two card win! This is probably the point where it stops being fun, as there must only be a handful of possibilities to get it to work, if you dont include Anger and Spinning Top. That relic seems to be extremely rare, and the odd time I do see it in a shop, I dont have enough money as all my money is going on removes.

 

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Yeah I can't figure out how you lot are getting remotely close to doing that. 

 

I struggle because if I'm busy trying to remove I am not taking cards and then I don't seem to get the kind of power from better cards to take down the elites... 

 

Unless you're doing runs repeatedly until the first rewards fit your plans? 

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6 minutes ago, cowfields said:

Yeah I can't figure out how you lot are getting remotely close to doing that. 

 

I struggle because if I'm busy trying to remove I am not taking cards and then I don't seem to get the kind of power from better cards to take down the elites... 

 

Unless you're doing runs repeatedly until the first rewards fit your plans? 


ascension 1 or 0, play ironclad, choose question marks and pay to get rid of cards at every opportunity, buy only cards with draw or rampage, and upgrade bash.

don’t worry so much about defence - you’ll cycle through attack fast enough. You do need two cards with draw though to get into a quasi infinite state.

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16 hours ago, bm said:

How the heck are you removing so many cards? Or are those the only ones you are picking up?

 

If you go back a couple of pages or so, I put together a mini guide. But in principle, you change your way of playing to make removing cards your absolute priority, and there are only a handful of cards you want to pick up. Its a really fun way of playing the game. There are lots of different ways of removing cards-

 

  • Peace Pipe relic: The holy grail, remove a card option appears at bonfires. 
  • At every shop, so you can comfortably have a chance of 6-8 removes over the three Acts. This is made much easier if you get the Relic that makes remove cost 50 gold each time. Remove is your priority over anything. 
  • There are quite a few events that let you remove cards. Getting 2-3 is easily possible each run.
  • Bird Cage relic: Remove 2 cards. This is a great relic, and I will normally take it over any energy relic if I am going for a small deck.
  • You can get a Neow event to remove 2 cards, usually involves losing max health though.

 

As you get lower and lower, it gets less fun really, as you are relying on a lot of luck to get the cards/relics/events you need. But even going for a deck of 10 cards is good fun, and a different approach to the normal way of playing the game. You should be able to get down to 7 or 8 cards fairly easily.

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Are there any videos or literature on how they designed the game? I often wonder whether they think of cool synergies and work backwards to create cards and relics or if the cards and relics come first as their starting point. 

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38 minutes ago, petrolgirls said:

Getting the right relics helps too. Sundial is hopelessly OP as you shrink your deck provided you have some draw. 


And Abacus too.... Gain 6 block every time you shuffle your deck 3 times

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23 minutes ago, Muz said:

Are there any videos or literature on how they designed the game? I often wonder whether they think of cool synergies and work backwards to create cards and relics or if the cards and relics come first as their starting point. 


Its mind boggling how balanced things are. 

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11 minutes ago, kempstar said:


And Abacus too.... Gain 6 block every time you shuffle your deck 3 times

 

Sure, although by the time you're set up properly with sundial you're basically infinite and block is irrelevant (time eater and the heart notwithstanding). 

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22 minutes ago, kempstar said:


Its mind boggling how balanced things are. 

 

I don't know that it is. You can have runs where you struggle and runs where you're so OP that you're pretty much Godly. Throw enough systems into the pot and they will bang off each other in all sorts of chaotic means.

 

Not a criticism of the game btw - just suggesting that marvelling at the fine-tuning of systems balance in roguelites is maybe overstating things.

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1 hour ago, Muz said:

Are there any videos or literature on how they designed the game? I often wonder whether they think of cool synergies and work backwards to create cards and relics or if the cards and relics come first as their starting point. 


Think there are a few linked to in here.

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53 minutes ago, GamesGamesGames said:

 

I don't know that it is. You can have runs where you struggle and runs where you're so OP that you're pretty much Godly. Throw enough systems into the pot and they will bang off each other in all sorts of chaotic means.

 

Not a criticism of the game btw - just suggesting that marvelling at the fine-tuning of systems balance in roguelites is maybe overstating things.

 

Couldnt disagree more! Its partly just incredible design, and partly a result of how much time and effort is spent beta testing.

 

If you think of every single card in the game, almost every single card in the game is useful at some point. There are literally only a handful of cards that are instant pick ups for me. Same with the relics - there are a handful that you can build a winning deck around, and some that are good most of the time, and some that are only good in certain circumstances, again, really balanced.

 

I think the challenge is just about perfect around the middle of the ascensions. I think on A10 ish, practically every single run is winnable. I think from A15 onwards, things start to get a bit unfair, and possibly there are some runs that simply arent winnable at all, whatever you do. 

 

Sure there are some OP combinations, but they appear just often enough IMO, and certainly dont make the game unbalanced. 

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1 hour ago, petrolgirls said:

 

Sure, although by the time you're set up properly with sundial you're basically infinite and block is irrelevant (time eater and the heart notwithstanding). 

 

Yes, well I had The Heart in mind as I had a run like that yesterday with Abacus.

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1 hour ago, kempstar said:

 

Couldnt disagree more! Its partly just incredible design, and partly a result of how much time and effort is spent beta testing.

 

If you think of every single card in the game, almost every single card in the game is useful at some point. There are literally only a handful of cards that are instant pick ups for me. Same with the relics - there are a handful that you can build a winning deck around, and some that are good most of the time, and some that are only good in certain circumstances, again, really balanced.

 

I think the challenge is just about perfect around the middle of the ascensions. I think on A10 ish, practically every single run is winnable. I think from A15 onwards, things start to get a bit unfair, and possibly there are some runs that simply arent winnable at all, whatever you do. 

 

Sure there are some OP combinations, but they appear just often enough IMO, and certainly dont make the game unbalanced. 

 

It's refined and then some by beta testing, no doubt. I think we might be saying much the same thing from two opposing positions. :coffee:

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On 27/02/2021 at 10:53, kempstar said:

 

If you go back a couple of pages or so, I put together a mini guide. But in principle, you change your way of playing to make removing cards your absolute priority, and there are only a handful of cards you want to pick up. Its a really fun way of playing the game. There are lots of different ways of removing cards-

 

  • Peace Pipe relic: The holy grail, remove a card option appears at bonfires. 
  • At every shop, so you can comfortably have a chance of 6-8 removes over the three Acts. This is made much easier if you get the Relic that makes remove cost 50 gold each time. Remove is your priority over anything. 
  • There are quite a few events that let you remove cards. Getting 2-3 is easily possible each run.
  • Bird Cage relic: Remove 2 cards. This is a great relic, and I will normally take it over any energy relic if I am going for a small deck.
  • You can get a Neow event to remove 2 cards, usually involves losing max health though.

 

As you get lower and lower, it gets less fun really, as you are relying on a lot of luck to get the cards/relics/events you need. But even going for a deck of 10 cards is good fun, and a different approach to the normal way of playing the game. You should be able to get down to 7 or 8 cards fairly easily.


This inspired me to take a crack this morning. Haven’t played the game in about 5 months, but cracked it on the second attempt. Got peace pipe on the first floor, so I knew I was in with a very strong chance! I would have died to the champ on floor 2 if I didn’t get lizard tail though, the deck wasn’t running nearly well enough at that point as I fell into the trap of trying to upgrade cards before removing the necessary ones. 
 

Final deck:

 

Shrug it off

Anger+
Pommel Strike+
Uppercut+
Berserk

 

Before the final boss I had to remove either Berserk or Spot Weakness and I thought having extra energy would be safer. In retrospect I would probably go the other way. I ended most turns unable to use that extra energy and the fight took bloody forever too!

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Anger decks are so boring arent they! I would probably have kept the spot weakness too, its much better in a small deck as you have more chance of being able to play it as you will draw it every turn, and usually multiple times, so you can ramp up really quickly.

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I just beat The Heart with an interesting deck-

 

Double Tap+

Shrug It Off+

Pommel Strike+

Bash+

Defend

 

The interesting part about it was that I had both Abacus (whenever you shuffle your draw pile, gain 6 block) and Sundial (every 3 times you shuffle your draw pile, gain 2 energy). These relics are both brilliant for small hand runs, but if you get them both, you are basically unbeatable.

 

You can go infinite on any turn where you draw both Double Tap+ and Pommel Strike+. Which, if you have a five card or less deck, is every turn, apart from if The Heart floods your hand with junk, or Clock Cock removes card draw from you, and so on. If you play Double Tap+ then Pommel Strike+, this will just endlessly recycle your hand, all the while building up both energy and block. You could therefore win with a two card deck, provided you had both the relics mentioned. This would work on A20 as well, as your block is building up faster than The Hearts beat of death is taking it away. Clock Cock might be a problem, as you can only play 12 cards before he attacks you, plus his strength is ramping up all the time too. 

 

I am going to try the small deck approach on A20 now. It obviously wont work without some significant changes to the approach, but I am keen to see what parts of the strategy will carry over. 

 

 

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Top tip: Dont take bottle relics!!!!! You cant remove a card if it is in a bottle :(

 

I know this because it just stopped me from getting a three card Heart kill-

 

Demons Form+ (bottled)

Shrug It Off

Bash+

Dropkick

 

I had Sundial, Abacus AND Kunai (play three attacks in a turn and get +1 Dex)

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