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MCU Phase 4 and beyond - Spidey to stay in the MCU! (warning: Endgame and Far From Home spoilers)


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6 hours ago, Mr. Gerbik said:

That was before Immortal Hulk became one of the best superhero comics ever made. They're full-on horror, and bloody fantastic too. It would be awesome to see that made into a movie but uuuh can't see Disney agreeing.

 

Immortal Hulk is fantastic.

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2 hours ago, Sabreman said:

Am I alone in not really liking Smart Hulk at all? I'm not super familiar with the character beyond the 70s TV series and the movies, but for me the compelling essence of the character is that struggle between the two facets of Banner, and the unpredictable capacity for violence. I find the fused version just kind of bland. For me, along with Gamer Thor, it's the biggest mis-step of Endgame.


I found Endgame pretty unsatisfying in general outside of the last half hour or so, but Hulk is by far the worst thing in it. I don’t mind Thor because it continues his story from Infinity War and is clearly leading into something more going forward and he at least gets an ending. 
 

Hulk is awful though. All the development offscreen between movies, all his plots dropped. The deleted scenes from the end of Infinity War resolves his conflict from that movie and provides a nice callback to his relationship with Nat that got brutally dropped in the actual movies. Smart Hulk is awful.

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I hated the way they took Thor in Endgame.

 

I'm totally on board with him having a crisis over the tragedy he's faced through the saga and his own failure, but they then basically use him for a fat gag until the end. I also found myself far more annoyed than I should have that they clearly struggled with a join at the wrist in the fat suit he was wearing so that just have him wearing fingerless gloves for the entire movie.

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3 hours ago, Mike1812 said:

They could have improved things with Hulk reacting to Nat's death in some way. Maybe it could have made him angry?


I don’t think people would have liked that. 

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Spoiler

Spider-Man: 

I'm sittin' in the railway station
Got a ticket to my destination
On a tour of one-night stands
My suitcase and guitar in hand
And every stop is neatly planned
For a poet and a one-man band

Homeward bound
I wish I was
Homeward bound
Home where my thought's escapin'
Home where my music's playin'
Home where my love lies waitin'
Silently for me

Every day's an endless stream
Of cigarettes and magazines
And each town looks the same to me
The movies and the factories
And every stranger's face I see
Reminds me that I long to be

Homeward bound
I wish I was
Homeward bound
Home where my thought's escapin'
Home where my music's playin'
Home where my love lies waitin'
Silently for me

Tonight I'll sing my songs again
I'll play the game and pretend
But all my words come back to me
In shades of mediocrity
Like emptiness in harmony
I need someone to comfort me

Homeward bound
I wish I was
Homeward bound
Home where my thought's escapin'
Home where my music's playin'
Home where my love lies waitin'
Silently for me
Silently for me

 

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15 hours ago, Mr. Gerbik said:

You're not alone with Hulk. As a fan of the character it has ruined Endgame for me as I was too busy being annoyed at what they did with the character and it's the only MCU movie I've watched only once because if it. All the Hulk fans I know agree and a surprising amount of people who don't even especially care about the original comics either way, thought the same.

 

In the comics, Professor Hulk is completely different. He's a literal merger of the savage Hulk and the gray Hulk and Banner, ie the strength of the first,the mean streak craftiness of the second and the genuis intellect of the third. A walking bomb, volatile as hell but himself convinced he's not.

 

In the MCU he's bland and boring and weak. He most resembles the Banner Hulk from the eighties a period in which Banner was in full control of the Hulk. In other words, the timid scientist personality - in the comics it worked because he was slowly unraveling, losing control until the savage personality burst out more uncontrollable than ever, which proceeded to rampage his way through New York, smashing every big name hero in his way to a pulp. In Endgame we only got the bland and boring part of Banner Hulk. Unlike dude Thor there's no redemption arc. He jusr fizzles out, managing to lose his arm and do nothing but hold up a leaky pipe in a basement while the other 3 founding Avengers confront the ultimate bad guy they had been building towards for 10 years. Four founding characters, four core movies, three of them get their moment against Thanos. While the fourth is holding up a leaky pipe and never even comes anywhere near Thanos. 

 

 

There's so much potential with the character, so many timeless story arcs to draw from, so much human drama. The MCU is mostly excellent but after the brilliant moment in the first Avengers movie they completely squandered the Hulk character. 

I'm not a comic book fan or reader, so I know nothing of the various storylines that they could use, but I also hated how Hulk was treated over both Infinity War and Endgame. Obviously in Infinity War his only role was that of exposition-dumper and then to try for some (poor) comedy and Endgame he just, as you say, holds up a pipe. I would also agree that outside of that Avengers line (which was brilliant at the time), they really did very little with him (I'm not a fan of Ragnarok anyway, so his appearance in that did nothing for me either). Will he even be a big part of the next series of films?

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18 hours ago, Chindie said:

I hated the way they took Thor in Endgame.

 

I'm totally on board with him having a crisis over the tragedy he's faced through the saga and his own failure, but they then basically use him for a fat gag until the end.

 

Yeah, they almost completely ruined the good work Hemsworth and Waititi had done in Ragnarok.

 

He regresses back to the same character from the previous films in Infinity War, which sees him looking for a weapon to channel his power which he'd just spent the whole of Ragnarok learning he didn't need a weapon to channel, just so they could get to their epic "You should have gone for the head!" moment. Sticking in one line saying "it could even hypothetically channel the bifrost!" or whatever was clearly a hurried edit to account for that.  And then in Endgame - "Oh, he's a comedy character now, errr...let's make him a fat Lebowski who cries?". It was shit.

 

Ragnarok is the only one of these films I really thought was brilliant so I realise might be biased!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Started a Phase 1 rewatch. Haven’t seen most of the Marvel films more than once (almost all of them during their cinema releases). Iron Man 1 feels more militaristic and, to a very minor degree, Michael Bay-ish than any of the subsequent films, as far as I remember, but most of the MCU ‘feel’ was already there from day one. Unlike The Incredible Hulk, which is very generic noughties superhero film – if it wasn’t for the mention of the Supersolider project and T. Stark turning up in the mid-credits sequence, I would’ve assumed that it was a pre-MCU film which had been partially retconned into the continuity.

 

(Hadn’t noticed before that Iron Man and TIH have very similar endings, where the hero has a fight with a bigger, eviler counterpart of himself.)

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8 minutes ago, Protocol Penguin said:

 

(Hadn’t noticed before that Iron Man and TIH have very similar endings, where the hero has a fight with a bigger, eviler counterpart of himself.)


Iron Man 2, Ant Man and Black Panther also have villains who when they’re fighting are just the hero in an evil suit.

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7 minutes ago, Protocol Penguin said:

Started a Phase 1 rewatch. Haven’t seen most of the Marvel films more than once (almost all of them during their cinema releases). Iron Man 1 feels more militaristic and, to a very minor degree, Michael Bay-ish than any of the subsequent films, as far as I remember, but most of the MCU ‘feel’ was already there from day one. Unlike The Incredible Hulk, which is very generic noughties superhero film – if it wasn’t for the mention of the Supersolider project and T. Stark turning up in the mid-credits sequence, I would’ve assumed that it was a pre-MCU film which had been partially retconned into the continuity.

 

(Hadn’t noticed before that Iron Man and TIH have very similar endings, where the hero has a fight with a bigger, eviler counterpart of himself.)

 

We've been doing the same, a couple of movies each weekend. First time my son's seen them too so I get to enjoy them through his eyes as well as second time round for me.

 

I enjoyed Iron Man 2 a *lot* less than I did first time around. It's just a bunch of different plotlines all jammed together without any real clear line through, and it spends time setting up future MCU stuff at the expense of its own story. Tony Stark's particularly unlikeable in this, and I don't think Rhodey gets much love either.

 

Thor was pretty good though, nice to get back to a simpler story after all of Stark's incessant jabbering. Hemsworth leans into the comedic stuff early on more than I remember, I thought he played it pretty straight until Ragnarok but this is actually a pretty funny film. And it's got Darcy in it! Natalie Portman looks bored as hell throughout though.

 

Very much looking forward to Captain America and Avengers this weekend as in my memory that's the point at which things really got good.

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I’m rewatching them all in timeline order. Dr Strange last night - such a fun film.

 

Must say though that despite the shit Iron Man 2 and Thor: Dark World get, I enjoyed both a fair bit more than Iron Man 3. That’s the worst of the MCU films for me (despite/because of Ben Kingsley’s character).

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I watched Iron Man 2 for the first time in a while; and the way it treats Johanssen  is really problematic. It’s all T&A, and at times the camera approaches Bay levels of leeriness. 
 

Feels quite out of place now with the rest of the MCU films

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Dark world is fine, and has Christopher Eccleston in it, I think.

 

Hemsworth gets his top off at least once and the final fight is in Greenwich. It's fine. 

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On 23/02/2021 at 13:21, probotector said:

Incredible Hulk doesn’t have cheesy quips.

 

That’s a good thing.

 

The only characters that seem to get away with quips are Thor and Bautista but that’s down to their actors.

Hello Regular sized man

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On 23/02/2021 at 21:27, Sabreman said:

Am I alone in not really liking Smart Hulk at all? I'm not super familiar with the character beyond the 70s TV series and the movies, but for me the compelling essence of the character is that struggle between the two facets of Banner, and the unpredictable capacity for violence. I find the fused version just kind of bland. For me, along with Gamer Thor, it's the biggest mis-step of Endgame.

It’s the Hulk conundrum. He is so utterly nerfed in the MCU, they had to change the character. Even smashy hulk only really went beserk when SW messed with his mind. Lol, she just turned him into normal hulk. Now he’s basically just Banner Bro and everyone probably assumes he’s not quite as strong.

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