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MCU Phase 4 and beyond - Spidey to stay in the MCU! (warning: Endgame and Far From Home spoilers)


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  • 2 weeks later...

my opinion on phase 4…
 

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Top Tier

——-

Shang-Chi and the legend of the ten rings (amazing)

Hawkeye (it just works)

 

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Mid Tier

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Moonknight (great build up..disappointing ending)
Black Widow (mvp Yelena)

Loki (most disappointing tv series but hopeful for S2)

Thor: Love and Thunder (most disappointing film)

Ms Marvel (a gentle introduction which didnt quite work)

 

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Bottom Tier

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Spider-Man: No Way Home (Spiderverse did it better)

Wanda Vision (confusing)
Falcon and Winter Soldier (boring)

Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness (bad cgi nonsense fest)

.

.

.

The Eternals (should have been a tv series)

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I’m not actually excited about any of the films coming up now.  This saddens me but it feels like the series is being crushed under the number of characters being used and the increasingly terrible cgi.

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22 minutes ago, DualSense said:

I’m not actually excited about any of the films coming up now.  This saddens me but it feels like the series is being crushed under the number of characters being used and the increasingly terrible cgi.

 

Ah now, it's not the cgi, it's the characters we don't care about are the problem.

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4 hours ago, DualSense said:

The Eternals (should have been a tv series)

 

I finally got around to watching the Eternals this week and I feel like I have lost two hours of my life.

 

I wanted to review with "Is it called Eternals because it goes on forever without much happening".

 

But my main takeaway is "A rubbish version of Moana"

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Instead of writing out lists- how about volunteering a single two year period where MCU was at its peak?

 

I'm going for 2016-2017 (tough one- but those two years include two of my top 3 MCU).

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30 minutes ago, drmick said:

Instead of writing out lists- how about volunteering a single two year period where MCU was at its peak?

 

I'm going for 2016-2017 (tough one- but those two years include two of my top 3 MCU).

 

It is mildly annoying me that people's Phase 4 lists are mostly being posted in the Thor 4 thread, instead of here or the ranking thread! :hmm:

 

Honestly, I'd probably pick April 2012-April 2014: I like Avengers, Iron Man 3 and The Winter Soldier so much that even Thor: The Dark World and the first season of Agents of SHIELD can't drag the average down!

 

Closely followed by April 2016-April 2018: Civil War, Dr Strange, GOTG vol 2, Spider-Man Homecoming, Thor Ragnarok, Black Panther, Infinity War.

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14 hours ago, Festoon said:

Ah now, it's not the cgi, it's the characters we don't care about are the problem.

 

Tallying up the new characters introduced in Phase 4, I think a few of them have popped off screen and been really likeable, interesting, or memorable, whether through writing or performance:

 

- Kamala Khan

- Kate Bishop

- Yelena Belova

- Agatha Harkness

- Agent Mobius

- Isaiah Bradley

- Wenwu

 

(Admittedly, I wouldn't expect to see all of those again.)

 

Others that I thought worked well and would like to see more of:

 

- John Walker/US Agent

- Contessa Elaine From Seinfeld 

- He Who Remains (a very Marmite performance, which I wasn't keen on, but I am interested in seeing what he'll be like when he appears again)

- The Watcher

- Khonshu (best thing about Moon Knight!)

- Katy (Awkwafina) (her presence made up for Shang-Chi himself being a bit bland)

- Most of the Ms Marvel supporting cast (I liked all the characters that Kamala already knows at the start of the series - but IMO the ones who are newly introduced to her during the series are less consistent.)

 

 

At the other extreme, you have the characters that fell flat:

 

- Sylvie

- Echo (really disappointing, as I love her introductory arc in the comics)

- The Flag Smasher leader whose name I can't remember

- Taskmaster

- Most of the Eternals - except, for me, Druig (the mind control one), Kingo (the Kumail Nanjiani one), and Makkari (the not-Flash one)

- Layla (from Moon Knight)

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2 hours ago, Nick R said:

 

Tallying up the new characters introduced in Phase 4, I think a few of them have popped off screen and been really likeable, interesting, or memorable, whether through writing or performance:

 

- Kamala Khan

- Kate Bishop

- Yelena Belova

- Agatha Harkness

- Agent Mobius

- Isaiah Bradley

- Wenwu

 

(Admittedly, I wouldn't expect to see all of those again.)

 

Others that I thought worked well and would like to see more of:

 

- John Walker/US Agent

- Contessa Elaine From Seinfeld 

- He Who Remains (a very Marmite performance, which I wasn't keen on, but I am interested in seeing what he'll be like when he appears again)

- The Watcher

- Khonshu (best thing about Moon Knight!)

- Katy (Awkwafina) (her presence made up for Shang-Chi himself being a bit bland)

- Most of the Ms Marvel supporting cast (I liked all the characters that Kamala already knows at the start of the series - but IMO the ones who are newly introduced to her during the series are less consistent.)

 

 

At the other extreme, you have the characters that fell flat:

 

- Sylvie

- Echo (really disappointing, as I love her introductory arc in the comics)

- The Flag Smasher leader whose name I can't remember

- Taskmaster

- Most of the Eternals - except, for me, Druig (the mind control one), Kingo (the Kumail Nanjiani one), and Makkari (the not-Flash one)

- Layla (from Moon Knight)

 

So many of these had me going 'Who?', seriously. Even on the first list.

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13 hours ago, Nick R said:

 

It is mildly annoying me that people's Phase 4 lists are mostly being posted in the Thor 4 thread, instead of here or the ranking thread! :hmm:

 

Honestly, I'd probably pick April 2012-April 2014: I like Avengers, Iron Man 3 and The Winter Soldier so much that even Thor: The Dark World and the first season of Agents of SHIELD can't drag the average down!

 

Closely followed by April 2016-April 2018: Civil War, Dr Strange, GOTG vol 2, Spider-Man Homecoming, Thor Ragnarok, Black Panther, Infinity War.


iron man 3 is the best iron man

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9 hours ago, Festoon said:

So many of these had me going 'Who?', seriously. Even on the first list.

 

My point in putting together that list was to test the assertion that we don't care about the new characters introduced in Phase 4.

 

Because the common complaint about the post-Endgame MCU is that there's no sense of focus in what it's aiming towards. (Timeline/multiversal shenanigans? Thunderbolts/Dark Avengers? Secret Invasion?) Personally, I'm not too bothered about that lack of direction to the overarching plot - for me it's more important that they get the characters right. That's been the key thing that the MCU has generally done well from the very start. It's meant that even the most flawed stories have featured characters that I've enjoyed watching.

 

In that first list of characters that I think have been really successful, we have three legacy heroes (new Hawkeye, new Black Widow, and one that's ostensibly "new Captain Marvel" but fills a role closer to new Spider-Man). Those, I think, are some of the most important ones to get right.

 

The other ones I think have worked very well are a supporting ally (Mobius); a supporting character who doesn't get much screen time but is not the sort of character we normally see in the MCU and was one of the best things about a not-great series (Isaiah Bradley); and two villains. (Agatha and Wenwu - the consensus seems to be that the latter is one of the better MCU villains, if only for the casting choice and performance, not for the writing.)

 

 

Overall, is the set of characters as strong as the group of original Avengers and their villains introduced in Phase 1? Definitely not! But they're all characters that I've enjoyed watching enough to paper over the cracks of the films/TV series in which they appeared.

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Who’s Wenwu? I’ve seen all the Marvel stuff because my boys are bang into it, but I’ve no idea who Wenwu is. I’m not sure them being utterly forgettable makes them one of the better Marvel villains.

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18 hours ago, Festoon said:

 

So many of these had me going 'Who?', seriously. Even on the first list.


…is everyone just immediately on their phones as soon as the talkie bits start to happen? 

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1 hour ago, Kevvy Metal said:


…is everyone just immediately on their phones as soon as the talkie bits start to happen? 

 

Nope. But I had to look up a huge amount of those names.

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3 hours ago, JohnC said:

Shang-Chi's dad.

I suppose I could have guessed or looked it up, but I didn’t want to Google it. I’ve had a look now though and can’t say he was very memorable at all really, but I didn’t think much of Shang-Chi to be honest.

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They’ve officially shuffled stuff around to push some stuff properly to “phase 5”, while announcing what bookends phase 6.

 

spoilers for phase 5

Spoiler

Starts (movie wise) with Ant man.

then GotG3, the Marveld, Blade, Cap 4 (titled New World Order), and a Thunderbolts movie.

 

show wise starts with Secret Invasion, then Echo, Loki S2, Ironheart, Agatha and a new Daredevil series with Charlie Cox.


 

Spoliers for phase 6 as well as announcements for 2 big hitters movie wise

Spoiler

Fantastic 4 now starts p6, which I think will annoy some people who thought it was going to be a phase ender and thus more “important”.  Nothing else revealed so far expect the big news that it’ll end with 2 avengers films in the same year - Avengers: the Kang Dynasty, and Avengers: Secret Wars


they’ve also announced officially what these 3 phases are called overall, and it’s not really a surprise

Spoiler

The multiverse saga


Some quick thoughts on the films announced for p6….

 

Spoiler

I’ve no idea how they’re gonna have those 2 films mesh so closely together.  There are obvious setups for both movies through the line, but I can’t help feeling they would be better as a saga each, with proper builds to each threat done on their own.   Secret wars in the comics was huuuuuuuuge too, I wonder if that’s effectively going to be used to kind of blank the slate for the next saga

 

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So Phase 4 ends in November with Black Panther now? All this has amounted to....nothing, then.

 

The announcement of 

 

Spoiler

Two avengers movies in the final year of Phase 6 puts them in, what, 2027?

 

We're gonna go 8 years or so without an Avengers movie and then just have a team that nobody knows rock up? What? I guess they may show up at the start of Phase 6.

 

Feels like the wheels are falling off a bit.

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Phase 5 still has another untitled movie.

 

The whole of Phase 6, 5 movies (2 still untitled), are set to be released within a year. Actually 1 day short of a year. November 24 to November 25. Of course they're always subject to slippage. But it'll be a quick phase.

 

There's also 4 Phase 7 dates already pencilled in for untitled movies. All those in 2026.

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3 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Phase 5 still has another untitled movie.

 

The whole of Phase 6, 5 movies (2 still untitled), are set to be released within a year. Actually 1 day short of a year. November 24 to November 25. Of course they're always subject to slippage. But it'll be a quick phase.

 

There's also 4 Phase 7 dates already pencilled in for untitled movies. All those in 2026.

 

5 movies a year? Christ on a bike. This is just a programming schedule for Disney+ which happens to make it on to the big screen, isn't it.

 

(I guess if you're making almost a billion dollars a month on subs you need to keep that gravy train rolling)

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55 minutes ago, Pelekophoros said:

 

5 movies a year? Christ on a bike. This is just a programming schedule for Disney+ which happens to make it on to the big screen, isn't it.

 

(I guess if you're making almost a billion dollars a month on subs you need to keep that gravy train rolling)

 

It's just too much stuff.

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1 hour ago, Pelekophoros said:

So Phase 4 ends in November with Black Panther now? All this has amounted to....nothing, then.

 

The announcement of 

 

  Hide contents

Two avengers movies in the final year of Phase 6 puts them in, what, 2027?

 

We're gonna go 8 years or so without an Avengers movie and then just have a team that nobody knows rock up? What? I guess they may show up at the start of Phase 6.

 

Feels like the wheels are falling off a bit.

I have a feeling the Avengers are already introduced and more will be over the next few years. So the audience will be fully ready once we get to 2025. 

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