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Marvel's Eternals


JohnC
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So, for the rest of the MCU,

 

Spoiler

Planet earth is just going to have a gigantic half-emerged Celestial sticking out of it?

 

 

Kind of thought that would be referenced a little bit in the subsequent media we've had. You'd think it'd make a headline or two.

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On 06/02/2022 at 12:38, MansizeRooster said:

So, for the rest of the MCU,

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Planet earth is just going to have a gigantic half-emerged Celestial sticking out of it?

 

 

Kind of thought that would be referenced a little bit in the subsequent media we've had. You'd think it'd make a headline or two.

Comic spoiler for what they're going to do with that (small spoiler but still)

Spoiler

In the comics the Avengers use the dead body of a Celestial stuck in a mountain as their headquarters. The Celestial from the movie is 99% sure going to fulfill that same function.

 

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At least it'll be more interesting than that out of town commercial estate they used to hang out in. I'm surprised you couldn't see the remains of a Frankie & Bennies and a Costa during the final battle of Endgame.

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4 hours ago, Mr. Gerbik said:

Comic spoiler for what they're going to do with that (small spoiler but still)

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In the comics the Avengers use the dead body of a Celestial stuck in a mountain as their headquarters. The Celestial from the movie is 99% sure going to fulfill that same function.

 

 

That is kind of what it reminded me of. It'd be a hell of a reach for the movies where they are right now I think.

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54 minutes ago, MansizeRooster said:

 

That is kind of what it reminded me of. It'd be a hell of a reach for the movies where they are right now I think.

That they actually went all the way to Celestials probably means that nothing is out of reach

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  • 4 months later...

Put this on tonight because honestly I don't know why but anyway... This has got to be the most tonally weird Marvel film. And Angelina Jolie has barely any actual lines, and I'm not sure what she's doing in it exactly but it doesn't seem to resemble any kind of acting that I know of.

 

The most surprising thing is I don't actually hate it. I'm finding it kind of more interesting than the new Doctor Strange film.

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I like how it treated superheroes as actual ancient gods and was more of a Greek tragedy kind of story, rather than there being any real kind of "big bad".

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I said at the time (and it remains true still) that this is the most interesting Marvel film I've seen since Endgame (yes, that includes No Way Home, which everybody other than me seems to love).

 

Despite Gemma Chan and Richard Madden having no chemistry whatsoever, I thought it was at least a bit different and the ending set up some interesting possibilities (which will be ignored now for the rest of time in every other Marvel film).

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I couldn't stand No Way Home. It literally felt like a film manufactured for consumption. A collision of "products".

 

This was boring and long and jarring and gloopy and stiff but didn't feel like I was being served a hot plate of memberberry pie, so I think I actually like it more despite it being "worse".

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I'm actually surprised nobody seemed to pick up on the obvious metaphor in this for

 

Spoiler

Abortion.

 

The main conflict of the story between the Eternals comes down to a disagreement over whether they should condemn "mother" Earth to destruction, to be forced to give birth to a Celestial child.

 

The anti-abortion Eternals argue that it will go on to have more future children so they shouldn't get in the way. The pro-choice characters argue that it's not right that Earth is not able to choose.

 

Kingo is anti abortion, but walks away from the conflict, partly, as he doesn't think he has the right to fight anyone who is pro-choice if that is their decision. Ikarus on the other hand, represents a militant "pro-life" agenda: someone who does not think the mother has the right to choose even for themselves.

 

Sersi of course is pro-choice, and is willing to fight for that right to be given, seeing as the "mother" in this case hasn't even been given the right to choose.

 

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2 minutes ago, Sidewaysbob said:

I think that might be your confirmation bias fitting current events to a film from 4 years ago.

 

I did consider that, but it seems like one quite plausible way to read it to me, as the story is literally wrestling philosophically with that issue. It's also possible to view things differently in retrospect when prompted to think about them in a different way, which can become just as valid.

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21 minutes ago, Sidewaysbob said:

I think that might be your confirmation bias fitting current events to a film from 4 years ago.

 

Is it 2025 already, or were there some very early pre-screenings of The Eternals?

 

Or have I been abducted by aliens and have a lot of missing time to account for..? :)

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Yeah that interpretation works for me! I also found Eternals to be a bit interesting and lovely to look at. I watched it in a few sections rather than one big slog through which definitely helped too. I liked it overall. I'd rather have another Eternals that feels really tonally different from the rest of the MCU than another "what you know but it's a horror," "what you know but it's a heist film" etc etc. I'm kinda done with the tone of the whole thing and for something to be a bit different was quite refreshing, if a little boring and poorly plotted in places. 

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12 hours ago, Benny said:

So basically it's a big pro-choice metaphor. Neat.

 

I actually quite enjoyed it. Weird!

 

9 hours ago, Benny said:

I'm actually surprised nobody seemed to pick up on the obvious metaphor in this for

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Abortion.

 

The main conflict of the story between the Eternals comes down to a disagreement over whether they should condemn "mother" Earth to destruction, to be forced to give birth to a Celestial child.

 

The anti-abortion Eternals argue that it will go on to have more future children so they shouldn't get in the way. The pro-choice characters argue that it's not right that Earth is not able to choose.

 

Kingo is anti abortion, but walks away from the conflict, partly, as he doesn't think he has the right to fight anyone who is pro-choice if that is their decision. Ikarus on the other hand, represents a militant "pro-life" agenda: someone who does not think the mother has the right to choose even for themselves.

 

Sersi of course is pro-choice, and is willing to fight for that right to be given, seeing as the "mother" in this case hasn't even been given the right to choose.

 

 

There are similarities to the premise of the Doctor Who episode "Kill the Moon", which a lot of people interpreted as being an abortion allegory. (Mostly unfavourably; it was not a popular episode.)

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Ultimately, I don't know if it was literally intended if that was what the story of the film was supposed to be about, but I think for me it makes the central conflict at the heart of it far more interesting than any of the other MCU films, and resembles the allegorical storytelling you get in high concept science fiction.

 

It's just a shame the film is so bloated and stodgy it was never going to resonate that way with regular audiences or critics.

 

And just to expand a bit on the interpretation:

 

Spoiler

The Eternals were themselves shown to have been created as part of an endless cycle of forced birth and rebirth - by losing their memories each time they are essentially being forced to be born again without their consent.

 

The Deviants were forced to be born yet cast aside by their "mother" when they did not turn out as expected. Neglected and abused children.

 

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3 hours ago, FishyFish said:

 

Is it 2025 already, or were there some very early pre-screenings of The Eternals?

 

Or have I been abducted by aliens and have a lot of missing time to account for..? :)

 

They started filming it in 2019, so the script would have been around for a good few years before hand. 

 

Anyway, my point was, applying  hot current event topics to films is always a little bit "seeing what you want to see" in my opinion. 

Lord of the rings for instance, you can apply everything from a warning about the rise of nazism to nuclear war to the dangers of tampering with genetics. Stick you favourite lens over the top and you'll fit whatever you want to see. 

 

Kirby's original comics were about the Gods placing (angels) celestials here to watch over us and fight the evil within, nazis. Then it all went a bit psychedelic. 

 

I like the movie more that most do. Its different to all the other MCU movies and at least tries to be original.  It's no masterpieces sure. But movies are always defined by what you bring to them and I brought a father son bonding over film and a university day, to it. 

 

But yeah, it's a good five years old now. 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Sidewaysbob said:

Anyway, my point was, applying  hot current event topics to films is always a little bit "seeing what you want to see" in my opinion. 


Not that I’m suggesting you’re saying it is - but I don’t see this as a problem. Often times you get out of a movie what you bring to it. 
 

I also have a soft spot for Eternals, although I have to say it doesn’t stand up particularly well to repeat viewing. 

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It's not a problem per say. I just don't think you can retro fit current events on a movie. 

It's just a movie, it can have whatever subtext you want it to have, that doesn't necessarily mean the directors and writers added that subtext when they created it. 

I accept that Benny's argument is very strong and convincing, but i think you could come up with a convincing augment its about racism in America, the war in Ukraine, even Brexit with a a little thought.

 

But, if you like it and think it says something about abortion, then ok. fair enough. 

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What I'm saying is the specific story in the literal text works very closely as 

 

Spoiler

an abortion allegory, simply as it is written. So it wasn't much of a stretch for me to interpret it that way.

 

You can't easily fit just any interpretation you want to something, or otherwise it's impossible for anything to have real meaning, What you can do however is look directly at what a particular story is doing and draw a best fit interpretation from that and draw conclusions from it that may not have been apparent before.

 

Writers may or may not have a specific intention when they create something, but intention isn't really important when it comes to the search for meaning, as that is gleaned when you interpret the finished text.

 

This is why art criticism is an evolving process, and past works are constantly being re-evaluated, whatever their original intention was.

 

 

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Finally watched this tonight, and it's definitely a mixed bag. Chan has her moments, but was ultimately out of her depth. Madden was just plain rubbish. The rest of the cast felt under used despite the lengthy runtime - I reckon there's a tighter cut in the editing room - but even then, none of them had any real charisma or gravitas apart from Nanjiani, who at least brought some humour. Some of the action was actually well done, I felt, but the ending fell flat for me. 

Spoiler

I was relieved to see Madden fired into the sun, then dismayed to see he'd been replaced with Harry fucking Styles. Fucking get fucking fucked. And the effects on his buddy ... did they run out of budget or something? Fucking woeful. 

Ultimately, the Eternals are lame, there's no one to care about, I have zero interest in seeing these characters again. 

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12 hours ago, Thor said:

Finally watched this tonight, and it's definitely a mixed bag. Chan has her moments, but was ultimately out of her depth. Madden was just plain rubbish. The rest of the cast felt under used despite the lengthy runtime - I reckon there's a tighter cut in the editing room - but even then, none of them had any real charisma or gravitas apart from Nanjiani, who at least brought some humour. Some of the action was actually well done, I felt, but the ending fell flat for me. 

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I was relieved to see Madden fired into the sun, then dismayed to see he'd been replaced with Harry fucking Styles. Fucking get fucking fucked. And the effects on his buddy ... did they run out of budget or something? Fucking woeful. 

Ultimately, the Eternals are lame, there's no one to care about, I have zero interest in seeing these characters again. 

 

Well, re: your spoiler

 

Spoiler

Adam Warlock is a big hero and/or foe in GotG so he's a shoe-in for GotG3.

 

Edit: Ignore me. I'd forgotten who he was.

 

But! 

 

Spoiler

Eros is ALSO likely for GotG3

 

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