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Halo Infinite - Q? 2021?


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That's the plan alright but I just wonder is there a point where MS stop and say it isn't worth continuing to develop the Xboxone port. Being a cross gen game made a lot of sense when you'd want a load of Xboxone owners there to fill out multiplayer games. If this slips far enough back to be a late 2021/early 2022 game then I'm not so sure. 

 

 

"Xboxone owners can still play Halo Infinite through xCloud" sound like something that might happen. 

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That would only be a consideration of relaxing the game on multiple hardware configurations was the issue. I can't categorically say it's not, but releasing games that run on a range of hardware is something that every PC game developer since forever had managed, not to mention the multiple console versions this gen.

 

Also, don't forget that the Xbox One version isn't a "port". It's literally the same game running with different settings.

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53 minutes ago, bear said:

That's the plan alright but I just wonder is there a point where MS stop and say it isn't worth continuing to develop the Xboxone port. Being a cross gen game made a lot of sense when you'd want a load of Xboxone owners there to fill out multiplayer games. If this slips far enough back to be a late 2021/early 2022 game then I'm not so sure. 

 

 

"Xboxone owners can still play Halo Infinite through xCloud" sound like something that might happen. 


Given that the need to support Xbone is likely why it looks a bit dodgy at present, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if development splits and the Series X version is redesigned to take much more advantage of the new hardware. Not sure if they’re at the point where they can actually cancel the Xbone version as a result but it’s certainly possible. A dual development track would see its own problems, though I suppose we have the examples of Titanfall and Forza Horizon 2 as games where separate versions for current and old gen were made, and both turned out well. However, a story-based game would present its own challenges in this regard as I don’t think that’s ever been done before (we had Assassin’s Creed Rogue but that was a totally different game, even via title, to the current gen one released in the same year) - would both stories be identical? Would both versions have the same levels but very different interpretations of them? And of course, Titanfall and FH2 had totally separate dev teams and had been split from the start. I guess we’ll see their thinking by the length of delay - if the game’s out next April, for example, then the Xbone version will be alive and kicking. 

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The difference between this transition and the 360-Xbox One one was that that was a massive shift from PowerPC to x86. At this point however, you could release an Xbox One game and it will also run, natively, on the Series X. 

 

Let's also not forget that Halo Infinite currently looks worse than several current gen games, including Halo 5, while supposedly hardware restricted "cross-gen" titles like Watch Dogs Legion look fantastic on current gen and are blowing away PC players running on 3090s.

 

The game's clearly got some serious issues, but I don't think Xbox One support is one of them.

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8 hours ago, Mogster said:

That would only be a consideration of relaxing the game on multiple hardware configurations was the issue. I can't categorically say it's not, but releasing games that run on a range of hardware is something that every PC game developer since forever had managed, not to mention the multiple console versions this gen.

 

Also, don't forget that the Xbox One version isn't a "port". It's literally the same game running with different settings.

I get all that and wouldn't see any reason to consider canning the Xboxone version if we were talking about something like Horizon 2 where releasing the game is the end of the development cycle.* 

Halo Infinite seems like its going to be much more like Destiny where releasing the game is the end of one development cycle and the start of another where 343 start doing the whole GAAS thing. Bungie dropped support for the PS3 and 360 version of Destiny when Rise of Iron (according to wikipedia anyway, I haven't bothered with Destiny) came out. Presumably 343 will have to do the same with Infinite at some point. Depending on how long the delay is I'm just wondering if it makes more sense to just cut it now. 

 

 

*I get that there'll be patches after launch and possibly DLC.

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On 29/10/2020 at 16:04, bear said:

I get all that and wouldn't see any reason to consider canning the Xboxone version if we were talking about something like Horizon 2 where releasing the game is the end of the development cycle.* 

Halo Infinite seems like its going to be much more like Destiny where releasing the game is the end of one development cycle and the start of another where 343 start doing the whole GAAS thing. Bungie dropped support for the PS3 and 360 version of Destiny when Rise of Iron (according to wikipedia anyway, I haven't bothered with Destiny) came out. Presumably 343 will have to do the same with Infinite at some point. Depending on how long the delay is I'm just wondering if it makes more sense to just cut it now. 

 

You are forgetting a significant crap tonne of hardware that also has to be supported by 343i as part of their 10-year service plan, the multitude of PCs that they have to also design the game for. Being based on the X1 allows much wider market reach on PC than scrapping that and moving the min spec to Next Gen.

 

Destiny didn't have this problem when it was conceived, it was a console-exclusive until the release of the sequel where the baseline was reset to something more modern. It's way more difficult to do that with Halo Infinite as most PCs they will want to support for the F2P multiplayer are below XSS spec for CPU and everything else outside of the GPU.

 

 

On 29/10/2020 at 08:54, Mogster said:

Let's also not forget that Halo Infinite currently looks worse than several current gen games, including Halo 5, while supposedly hardware restricted "cross-gen" titles like Watch Dogs Legion look fantastic on current gen and are blowing away PC players running on 3090s.

 

The game's clearly got some serious issues, but I don't think Xbox One support is one of them.

 

You're comparing a game running at a non-stable 30fps to a game designed to run at 60fps, it's not an apples-to-apples comparison.

 

Drop Halo Infinite to 30fps and lower the rendering resolution, suddenly you have way more power to make it look prettier. That's the trade-off.

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13 minutes ago, LaveDisco said:

Is reach on Gamepass? That'll have to scratch my Halo-on-a-launch-console itch, whilst I wait for infinity. 

 

All Halo games are. Also Series X|S Optimized one week after Series X|S launch.

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As I recall, Halo 5 runs at 60fps on the One X. It doesn't always hit 4K, but it does at times and looks pretty sharp regardless. Halo 5 on the One X is a better looking game than Infinite appeared on the Series X.

 

If you're talking about Watch Dogs, my point was that it's a great looking game on next gen hardware despite people claiming that cross gen games are being held back by last gen hardware. I'm not directly comparing Infinite to it.

 

You can find plenty of examples of great looking cross gen games from the last generation too. The Last of Us for instance, GTA5, Black Flag, Destiny and so on. 

 

1 hour ago, mushashi said:

Drop Halo Infinite to 30fps and lower the rendering resolution, suddenly you have way more power to make it look prettier. That's the trade-off.

 

Obviously you could probably bump up the graphics in exchange for lower framerate and resolution, but on the Series X you really shouldn't have to to do this to get a game looking better than a 4K(sort of) 60 FPS current gen Halo game.

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53 minutes ago, Mogster said:

As I recall, Halo 5 runs at 60fps on the One X. It doesn't always hit 4K, but it does at times and looks pretty sharp regardless. Halo 5 on the One X is a better looking game than Infinite appeared on the Series X.

 

Yes, Halo 5 is locked 60fps with dynamic resolution. Which means that it will max out on the Series X at 4k60 with the maximum quality defined in the scaler. Hopefully the game will also get a Series S|X update after MCC receives it. 

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5 minutes ago, Super Craig said:

 

Because it's not ready?

 

Such bad planning.

 

I think there needs to be a question mark added to the "2021" in the thread title.

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Development update on Halo: MCC for Series S|X:

 

Most important point:  Players with compatible displays will be able to experience up to 120fps at 4k on Series X and 1080p on Series S. They're also adding a FOV slider.

 

Quote

One area you’ve been specifically driving is next-gen compatibility and updates to MCC. Last week a small patch was released for MCC as a precursor to the launch of Xbox Series X|S. What did that entail? What kind of work goes into testing and assuring that MCC will run great on these brand new consoles? 

 

My first opportunity to work across the Xbox organization was with the compatibility team who have been focused on making sure everyone’s games play great on the new platforms. For us at Halo Publishing, that means all of our legacy titles will be ready for the new hardware launching next month and patch you mention was to make sure players can play together across Xbox generations and have a great experience in any MCC mode. One of the side-effects of the new consoles is that loading is so much faster now that we have to make sure it doesn't disrupt matchmaking. As a new-hire it was great to collaborate with the compatibility team on this effort.

 

Of course, compatibility is only part of the story – just this week we also announced a few specific upgrades that Xbox Series X|S owners will get via an update on November 17. Can you speak a bit more about what new functionality and experiences are coming to the next generation consoles? 

 

Absolutely. Players will see some cool improvements when playing MCC on Xbox Series X|S when we release a free update on November 17th. First, there is a raw performance improvement across the board. Players with compatible displays will be able to experience up to 120fps at 4k on Series X and 1080p on Series S. This was a big engineering effort as each game within MCC has unique performance challenges. While there are similarities to the efforts on the PC versions of each game, the work to do this on Series X|S is not always the same and included some unique challenges.

Regardless of whether players have a display setup for 120 fps, we have also included some graphic enhancements to the game such as increased draw distances within levels and improved split screen experiences in Campaign and Multiplayer. And I can't wait until everyone gets to experience these loading times. A personal favorite for me is the added FOV slider. These improvements along with MCC update items Chris mentioned above really make the whole experience feel new and fresh. 

 

Players across the community have been talking about the possibilities of Ray Tracing being added to MCC someday for next gen hardware – is that something the team has explored? Beyond the items noted above, are you looking into additional opportunities to tap into these new consoles with MCC down the road?

 

I’m personally excited to see what we can do with the power of this new hardware in the future. The complexity and scope of MCC poses unique challenges that I am still learning about, but I love the opportunities it offers for how we can roll out new features and enhancements in the future. One thing I have already learned here is that this team listens to the community as a crucial element to our planning. I love that and am excited to see what we can do together in the future! 

More on MCC Series S|X during the launch live steam on November 9th. 

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On 01/11/2020 at 16:45, Mogster said:

As I recall, Halo 5 runs at 60fps on the One X. It doesn't always hit 4K, but it does at times and looks pretty sharp regardless. Halo 5 on the One X is a better looking game than Infinite appeared on the Series X.

 

If you're talking about Watch Dogs, my point was that it's a great looking game on next gen hardware despite people claiming that cross gen games are being held back by last gen hardware. I'm not directly comparing Infinite to it.

 

You can find plenty of examples of great looking cross gen games from the last generation too. The Last of Us for instance, GTA5, Black Flag, Destiny and so on. 

 

 

Obviously you could probably bump up the graphics in exchange for lower framerate and resolution, but on the Series X you really shouldn't have to to do this to get a game looking better than a 4K(sort of) 60 FPS current gen Halo game.

 

Halo Infinite has different design goals than Halo 5, they want 60fps and open-world, that has a high cost.

 

All the other examples you refer to ran at an unstable 30fps on last gen consoles at ~720p. We haven't been shown what the base Xbox One version of Halo Infinite looks like. If it has to drop to an unstable 30fps at sub-1080p with worse visual effects, then the XSX version looking and performing as it does would be entirely plausible. It ran at 4K/60fps (well I assume it does on real hardware as we have only seen a dev kit PC target spec emulation of it) which would soak up most of the extra horsepower just by that change.

 

Sea of Thieves is also an open-world game, runs 900p/30 on X1 and 4K/30 on X1X, the Next Gen port is 4K/60, any extra power headroom isn't going to be transformative to the visuals once you've used a huge chunk of it on doubling the framerate. You can't have it all on console, so choose what is most important, the problem is people either have conflicting requirements or want to have their cake and eat it too.

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  • Kryptonian changed the title to Halo Infinite - Q? 2021?

I'm not sure what you're arguing now I'm afraid, or I've missed the point somewhere down the line.:unsure:

 

I think it's safe to say that when it finally comes out, Infinite will look a lot better than it did in the demo. It has to for their sake.

 

And yes, 360 versions of cross gen games looked worse than the next gen versions. My point was that the next gen ones were clearly not "held back" by this fact. 

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I just rewatched it and also Halo 5, I think Halo Infinite looked fine next to that. The look they are going for is Halo: CE but super high fidelity as their own art style wasn't working for the existing fanbase apparently.

 

The complaints about the graphics might be slightly misplaced, or people don't actually want a Hi-def Halo: CE in reality, hence the negative reactions.

 

Without seeing how the base Xbox One version looks, complaints about the graphical wow factor of the XSX version are difficult to justify, that could look noticeably worse, much like other simultaneous development cross-gen games before it.

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2 hours ago, mushashi said:

The complaints about the graphics might be slightly misplaced, or people don't actually want a Hi-def Halo: CE in reality, hence the negative reactions.

 

The expectation on graphics was set by the 2018 trailer. If it looked anything like that there wouldn't have been much fuss.

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3 hours ago, mushashi said:

The complaints about the graphics might be slightly misplaced, or people don't actually want a Hi-def Halo: CE in reality, hence the negative reactions.


This is much a weird take. I think most people would be fine with something more stylised like CE, functionally I think Destiny is pretty close to that. It’s just that it also looks like a modern game, with an appropriate level of visual fidelity. The Infinite trailer doesn’t look like a modernised CE, it looks like an Xbox 360 game running at a really high res. It’s got poor quality, badly animated enemies clustered into tiny groups. There’s no modern lighting or particle effects. It looks unfinished at best.

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3 hours ago, mushashi said:

I just rewatched it and also Halo 5, I think Halo Infinite looked fine next to that. The look they are going for is Halo: CE but super high fidelity as their own art style wasn't working for the existing fanbase apparently.

 

The complaints about the graphics might be slightly misplaced, or people don't actually want a Hi-def Halo: CE in reality, hence the negative reactions.

 

Without seeing how the base Xbox One version looks, complaints about the graphical wow factor of the XSX version are difficult to justify, that could look noticeably worse, much like other simultaneous development cross-gen games before it.

N, yeah - people want this, but Halo.

 

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3 minutes ago, monkeydog said:

Yup, that was what I was too lazy to link. 

It’s weird that the last demo was slated for its looks, as 343 are usually pretty amazing with that stuff and if the reveal trailer is anything to go by then the slipspace engine they’ve developed is more than capable. I’d love to know what’s gone on behind the scenes that’s messed them up so much. It can’t all be down to Covid.

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8 hours ago, layten said:

Microsoft promising a version for the potato CPU based machines most likely.

Maybe, but there have been some stunning open world games this gen, so I’m not sure how much of an excuse that is. It’s probably a factor though, especially if they were told after development had already started.

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Not having ray tracing implemented for your big shiny gameplay demo was also a bad move.

 

If they do proper RDNA2 ray tracing and implement it well it'll go a long way to making it look 'next gen'.

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10 hours ago, JPL said:

It’s weird that the last demo was slated for its looks, as 343 are usually pretty amazing with that stuff and if the reveal trailer is anything to go by then the slipspace engine they’ve developed is more than capable. I’d love to know what’s gone on behind the scenes that’s messed them up so much. It can’t all be down to Covid.


It took Bungie 3 years, 500 people and the largest game budget ever to make a follow up to Halo, and even with all that Destiny launched with numerous problems. It was also all they were working on.

 

343 have stayed closer to the original format with 4 and 5, sticking to what they knew and generally evolving, rather than revolutionising the series. They’ve also had MCC, mobile games, work on Halo Wars and other stuff to do in between their big entries. Infinite has lost two directors now, and was being pushed towards release despite clearly not being completely finished. It seems most likely that moving to a bigger world and adding a lot of new elements has been challenging and Microsoft haven’t been willing to give them the time and space to figure out what they wanted to create and how to do that because the franchise is too important to leave on the back burner for a few years while the devs work out how to really push it forwards.

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