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Starfield - Coming to an Xbox/PC/GamePass near you soon


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People seem to have trouble with the concept that games can be like, more than one thing.

 

Like they're mentally categorising this into "story based RPG" in their head and then they don't see "procedural worlds" fit with that because "how can you make story based content for all of that", like, no you can do story based stuff and also support more systemic survival/base building/economic simulation stuff at the same time, they don't cancel each other out like matter and antimatter.

 

I'd say the most popular games like GTAV or y'know, Skyrim are pretty successful at offering story based main content and freeform fuck-about open world.

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I find it baffling as well.  There is a tendancy for players to find the most boring path though.  If you can level up by spending 40 hrs resource collecting on the galaxy's blandest moon, a fair selection of players will being doing just that.  And then complain that the game is too grindy.

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2 minutes ago, monkeydog said:

I find it baffling as well.  There is a tendancy for players to find the most boring path.  If you can level up by spending 40 hrs resource collecting on the galaxy's blandest moon, a fair selection of players will being doing just that.  And then complain that the game is too grindy.

 

I mean, no, no one will do that. Because the end goal isn't to "grind up to max level" for gamers, it's "see all of the content", people are going to go out, follow the quests that lead them from place to place, explore, get in scraps, like in any open world game. I think people are genuinely being a bit silly here.

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The likelihood of these 1000 planets being rich dense worlds content wise is obviously low through some common sense. That said, until we see more of the game, its pretty much just people farting to know what level of engagement they will hold. If I was forced to guess, mass planet exploration will mainly be for resource gathering to build new ship parts or outpost thingies and if they do have quests, they will be of the infinite variety you get in Skyrim/Fallout 4 etc. 

 

And even if that was the case, its fine as long as there is a solid base of meaningful main and side quests at a small(er) number of fleshed out locations. The 1000 planets could be window dressing, but if it is window dressing to a good 50 hour core, who cares. I wouldn't have time to explore 1000 meaningful worlds anyway.

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2 minutes ago, RubberJohnny said:

 

I mean, no, no one will do that. Because the end goal isn't to "grind up to max level" for gamers, it's "see all of the content", people are going to go out, follow the quests that lead them from place to place, explore, get in scraps, like in any open world game. I think people are genuinely being a bit silly here.

 

You've not spend enough time around MMO players, or at least not the insane ones I have.

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7 minutes ago, monkeydog said:

You've not spend enough time around MMO players, or at least not the insane ones I have.

 

MMOs and multiplayer loot games are literally about maximising your gearscore for endgame content though, that's not remotely the same drive as a singleplayer story based RPG. No one playing Skyrim did anything like that.

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I'm sure I remember people doing exactly that sort of thing in Skyrim - smithing hundreds of low-worth hammers so as to be able to smith the mega sword without any work, or whatever. Not that it matters, people play games how they want.

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One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the structure of the main quest seems to be a collectathon, it looks like you have Y artifacts scattered across the whole game world and you probably need any X of them, it means a lot of the side content like checking out that research outpost gone dark will tie into and help progress the main quest in a way that say, doing your fifth Dwemer dungeon didn't.

 

It's also easy to see that adding some more impact to the choices for the main story quests, do you stop the pirates from getting one or give it up to protect the colonists, knowing you'll need to make up for it by searching out another in some side content, maybe following that tip to salvage one from a shipwreck.

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40 minutes ago, Uncle Mike said:

I'm sure I remember people doing exactly that sort of thing in Skyrim - smithing hundreds of low-worth hammers so as to be able to smith the mega sword without any work, or whatever. Not that it matters, people play games how they want.

We still do it now. Only it's daggers, smithing iron daggers is the most efficient way of levelling up your smithing stat, so you spend ages gathering/buying/stealing all the iron and leather you can find to craft iron daggers. The act of doing so is oddly satisfying.

 

mwbrl24xepl21.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=8ca4c521ee263cbf1773f4271356b12880a53d2f

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7 minutes ago, Thor said:

Fuck that! :lol:

 

Get this installed.

 

Most of the thrill from Smithing comes from finding a remote mine somewhere with tons of that ore that you suddenly find yourself needing.

 

Anyway, this is all besides the point. Plenty of players min/max the fuck out of this game, and not just when it comes to the smithing. I'd bet the people who played Skyrim conventionally are in the minority - especially when a lot of it's just begging to be deliciously exploited.

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10 minutes ago, Fallows said:

Anyway, this is all besides the point. Plenty of players min/max the fuck out of this game, and not just when it comes to the smithing. I'd bet the people who played Skyrim conventionally are in the minority - especially when a lot of it's just begging to be deliciously exploited.

Actually, aside from the smithing exploit, I do play it conventionally, with only a few choice mods for QoL or small visual upgrades. And I do mean small, I've always loved Skyrim's original look. :)

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2 hours ago, Thor said:

We still do it now. Only it's daggers, smithing iron daggers is the most efficient way of levelling up your smithing stat, so you spend ages gathering/buying/stealing all the iron and leather you can find to craft iron daggers. The act of doing so is oddly satisfying.

 

mwbrl24xepl21.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=8ca4c521ee263cbf1773f4271356b12880a53d2f


This is not the most efficient way. There’s a spell that turns iron into silver and silver into gold, so the most efficient method is stacking iron, standing still casting that spell hundreds of times, making jewellery and selling that to buy more iron. 

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1 hour ago, Broker said:

This is not the most efficient way. There’s a spell that turns iron into silver and silver into gold, so the most efficient method is stacking iron, standing still casting that spell hundreds of times, making jewellery and selling that to buy more iron. 

That may be more effecient to make money, but is it really more efficient for upping your Smithing stat than than simply crafting the daggers? You're adding two layers of spell casting there. 

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25 minutes ago, TehStu said:

All this talk makes me wonder if I was one of the few who actually enjoyed exploring every inch of all the planets in the original Mass Effect. Bit of a chew in the original Mako, but still.

Every inch of every planet! Loved it!

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1 hour ago, Thor said:

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That may be more effecient to make money, but is it really more efficient for upping your Smithing stat than than simply crafting the daggers? You're adding two layers of spell casting there. 


Since one of the early updates your smithing stat increases more if you’re crafting something of a higher value, and yah I’m pretty sure when I ran the numbers jewellery is more efficient time wise, even when you account for the extra spell casting time. I’m pretty sure the house building materials like nails etc are also more efficient than iron daggers as you don’t need to source the leather. I’m quite tempted to get on and do some experiments. The jewellery method also has the added benefit of increasing your alteration stat, which levels you up and gives you extra perk points to pile into smithing. 

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2 minutes ago, Broker said:


Since one of the early updates your smithing stat increases more if you’re crafting something of a higher value, and yah I’m pretty sure when I ran the numbers jewellery is more efficient time wise, even when you account for the extra spell casting time. I’m pretty sure the house building materials like nails etc are also more efficient than iron daggers as you don’t need to source the leather. I’m quite tempted to get on and do some experiments. The jewellery method also has the added benefit of increasing your alteration stat, which levels you up and gives you extra perk points to pile into smithing. 

If there were online gurus doing self help lectures about how to be a overnight millionaire in Skyrim, I'd be following this guy. Knows his shit.

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Apologies, but I have to veer away from the amazing Dagger talk, and actually post about No Man's Skyrim:

 

 

This guy is known for his excellent vids about Elite Dangerous, and pretty much anything space game related. He makes some astute observations. 

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Anyone walked the entire map in a sprawling game or two? I have most recently in AC Odyssey. I think massive game worlds don't need to be 100% curated per se, a lot of the AC map is just copy and paste tat for people who like to explore off the beaten path of the main story, or even side quests. Plenty of places you appear to have no good reason to go other than to go.

 

Looking forward to seeing more footage but I reasonably assume the 1,000 worlds will include a mix of curated, copy/paste tat, and pointless exploration. Maybe completely dead worlds that are for nothing other than whatever nonsense we did in ME# to upgrade the Normandy.

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22 minutes ago, Thor said:

Apologies, but I have to veer away from the amazing Dagger talk, and actually post about No Man's Skyrim:

 

 

This guy is known for his excellent vids about Elite Dangerous, and pretty much anything space game related. He makes some astute observations. 

 

What the fuck is wrong with this guy's voice? He sounds like he's role-playing a chatbot. Or Limmy doing a bit. 

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I keep thinking we've kind of had Fallout in Spaaaaaaace already with The Outer Worlds. I think I'm honestly looking forward to the sequel to that game more. For the very specific RPG elements I enjoyed from Fallout I expect that game will end up more polished, and Starfield will be more of a Bethesda grab bag.

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12 minutes ago, TehStu said:

Anyone walked the entire map in a sprawling game or two? I have most recently in AC Odyssey. I think massive game worlds don't need to be 100% curated per se, a lot of the AC map is just copy and paste tat for people who like to explore off the beaten path of the main story, or even side quests. Plenty of places you appear to have no good reason to go other than to go.

 

Looking forward to seeing more footage but I reasonably assume the 1,000 worlds will include a mix of curated, copy/paste tat, and pointless exploration. Maybe completely dead worlds that are for nothing other than whatever nonsense we did in ME# to upgrade the Normandy.

I think the fact Howard mentioned goldilocks planets specifically also means theres going to be a lot of dead worlds in this game. 

 

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28 minutes ago, TehStu said:

Anyone walked the entire map in a sprawling game or two? I have most recently in AC Odyssey. I think massive game worlds don't need to be 100% curated per se, a lot of the AC map is just copy and paste tat for people who like to explore off the beaten path of the main story, or even side quests. Plenty of places you appear to have no good reason to go other than to go.


I’ve covered every inch of BOTW, but they give you a tool on the dlc that allows you to see where you’ve been (up to a point), so you can be quite sure about it.

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The whole "empty planet" thing seems a bit weird. I get the point but its also weird. 

 

First of all, we don't have to have every planet to be a quest hub with interesting civilizations, etc. That would actually make little sense from a design perspective. Secondly, planets can be "empty" in the same way No Man's Sky's planets are "empty", but full of resources to mine, wild life to record, etc. Thirdly, we are forgetting about the procedural generation systems that can provide quests, buildings for exploration, etc. If they are just a small improvement over Skyrim I will be happy. 

 

Last but not least, very few of us will actually visit all the planets. The number of planets is so high in order to provide a different experience and exploration for as many players as possible, share info and notes about discoveries etc.

 

And we will have crews to send to their deaths when we are bored as well. Give me more planets, I say. 🥳

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Quote

 

"Todd Howard has said that Starfield won't allow you to fly seamlessly from space to its 1,000 explorable planets, saying the feature is "really just not that important to the player" to justify the engineering work involved.

"People have asked, ‘Can you fly the ship straight down to the planet?’ No. We decided early in the project that the on-surface is one reality, and then when you’re in space it’s another reality."

 

https://www.ign.com/articles/starfield-new-details-todd-howard-interview

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