Doom Eternal - iD Tech 7, Huge Maps, Invade Other Players' Campaigns

[Boothjan]

Started this the other day and it's a bit good, isn't it?

 

Absolute bloody bedlam, pretty tough as well but I'm intrigued just how they managed to make a game that is so fast and intense yet also nails the strategic elements. 

 

Looks incredible too.

[glb]

Gone back to mop up some of the collectibles and it’s so satisfying bouncing around levels with infinite ammo on and BFGing the face off everyone.

 

Insert garyoldman.gif

[K]

I played this when it first came out and was fairly underwhelmed by it, but after two years off and an exploratory download to see what the ray-tracing looked like on Series X, this has massively clicked for me. The raytracing is not that exciting – I only remember it’s on when I come close to some glass - but the game is absolutely incredible. It took merely an entire 20hr playthrough and millions of deaths, but I suddenly feel like I get the game. I just about scraped through my first playthrough on Hurt Me Plenty, but I managed to complete it on Ultraviolence this time, which felt absolutely perfectly pitched – just hard enough to feel really punishing, but almost never unfair. I even like the story this time round, although that’s probably a side effect of enjoying the game more. I like the way it shoves you into the middle of the story with no explanation and just leaves you to piece it together, and the scope and scale of everything feels extremely metal.

 

I enjoyed it so much I went straight into the Ancient Gods, and I’m really enjoying that too – although there are a couple of weird changes I’m not that keen on, like the way that the levels don’t show you how many encounters you’ve completed and are yet to do, or the way that each encounter is only counted as completed when you’ve killed all the cannon fodder zombies and imps, which sometimes makes for an anticlimactic hunt around for the last possessed trooper. That aside, it seems great and super-lavish. The fight against two marauders was hilariously OTT.

 

What’s interesting about it is that it made me want to go back to Doom 2016, which feels almost painfully staid and unexciting. It’s a neat demonstration of just how cleverly designed Doom Eternal is, in that there isn’t an ounce of fat on it. For a game that’s almost comically excessive, it’s actually incredibly lean in the way that each system relates every other system, and that there’s a constant mental pressure to keep moving and thinking and pushing. Doom 2016 felt incredibly intense at the time, but now feels tentative and half-cocked. There’s a crouch button for god’s sake – in what context would you ever want to crouch in Doom?

[Boothjan]

I have no idea how you lasted longer than 10 seconds on Hurt Me Plenty, let alone Ultraviolence!!

 

Tremendous game, but I was a sissy and had to play it on the lowest difficulty, and even then I found it a challenge. 

[K]

I think I've hit my breaking point in this. The Slayer Gate on the Urdak level on the first set of DLC levels is absolutely fucking bonkers. You start off with two Archviles and dozens of adds, you move onto two of the cybernetic barons of hell things, accompanied by two of those flying invincible Blood Makyrs. Once you get past them, you get two Doom Hunters, who I thought I'd gotten pretty efficient at taking down but am really struggling with fighting two of them in a confined space. And then, once you're past that, you get a possessed Marauder.

 

I've been quite enjoying fighting the marauders so far, and particularly enjoyed stunlocking them and hitting them point blank with a shot from the BFG, but at this point in the game, I've got no health, little ammo, and am really not seeing how I could kill a possessed marauder while also being mobbed by dozens of his pals. It really does feel like I'm re-enacting the front cover of the original Doom. 

[shirubagan]

I finally got to play this by briefly unplugging the Ethernet cable from the back of my Series X on the Bethesda Net login screen and I’m very much enjoying it.
 

However, there’s a bit too much platforming, swinging and climbing and any timed platforming sections with switches and monkey bars are rubbish.

 

It looks very pretty, runs beautifully, amazing OST again and I’m looking forward to finishing this. 

[scottcr]

I finished this on the switch and loved it. Hilariously over the top great fun. Also an absolute technical wonderment on the switch.

[Flanders]

I feel like this game should have a PSA at the start that tells the player the easiest setting is still really fun and well worth playing if you find higher difficulties too challenging.

 

I got to the end of Doom Hunter base on normal and decided to drop down because I could see that there were going to be more and more chokepoints I might have trouble with. Happy to report that easy mode still feels like the same game and provides a decent degree of challenge while not being quite as overwhelming. 
 

Add me to the group who can’t understand what people are whinging about with the story stuff, when this first came out I presumed from the reaction in here that it was filled with long po-faced cutscenes and forced walking exposition sections. In reality it’s a very unintrusive tale of how an Iron Maiden concept album came to life, it’s not remotely serious and is just a device to hang ever more metal imagery around the action. 

[Benny]

I think part of the initial reaction was it didn't feel as clever or as fourth wall breakingly disrespectful to its own cutscenes. But as you say, like much of the rest of the game, the whole point was it was trying something different for this game and was leaning into the big cheesy metal opera aspect. I found on a second playthrough I was enjoying more what it was trying to do.

[Boothjan]

I absolutely loved my time with this - it's just superb.  I had to play it through on easy mode though, it's utterly brutal in places.  I found easy to be pretty bloody challenging in places!  YMMV of course, but no way would I attempt this on one of the higher difficulty settings.

[Quest]

Mick Gordon not taking any shit, writes a 15,000 word Medium post about working with Bethesda/iD on the Doom Eternal score.

 

https://medium.com/@mickgordon/my-full-statement-regarding-doom-eternal-5f98266b27ce

 

Really shows how poorly appreciated composers are by some of these fuckers.

[Flub]

6 minutes ago, Quest said:

Mick Gordon not taking any shit, writes a 15,000 word Medium post about working with Bethesda/iD on the Doom Eternal score.

 

https://medium.com/@mickgordon/my-full-statement-regarding-doom-eternal-5f98266b27ce

 

Really shows how poorly appreciated composers are by some of these fuckers.

 

That deserves its own thread.

[Down by Law]

11 minutes ago, Quest said:

Mick Gordon not taking any shit, writes a 15,000 word Medium post about working with Bethesda/iD on the Doom Eternal score.

 

https://medium.com/@mickgordon/my-full-statement-regarding-doom-eternal-5f98266b27ce

 

Really shows how poorly appreciated composers are by some of these fuckers.

 

Fuck me 58 minute read.

 

Mick didn't just bring receipts he got the whole damn till roll.

 

Fair play for him to trying to sort it out professionally behind the scenes, because his name was proper dragged through the mud over this.

 

That 6 figure hush money from ID tells you everything you need to know. 

[Quest]

Thankfully we have his Atomic Heart score to look forward to, but after reading the whole thing I'm amazed he's continued working on games. 

[Quest]

13 minutes ago, Flub said:

That deserves its own thread.

 

Yeah, probably true. I'm sure one of the friendly neighbourhood mods can split these posts out.

[Popo]

Christ almighty, that’s a depressing read. 

[Kayin Amoh]

6 hours ago, Quest said:

Thankfully we have his Atomic Heart score to look forward to, but after reading the whole thing I'm amazed he's continued working on games. 

 

He does mention that most of the work he's collaborated on have been wonderful experiences. This was a train wreck.

 

Unfortunate to hear that this was going on behind the scenes, I loved the hell out of Eternal.

[Wiper]

Yeah, I just came in here to post that blog; that project sounds like it was a combination of every worst element of every bad project I've ever had to be a part of, and Marty sounds like a real piece of work.

[Festoon]

Trying to fuck a man's whole career and reputation to protect Marty's pride. What a prize cunt.

[Unofficial Who]

Just read all of this and if I was on Microsoft's legal team I'd be looking to make this right before it becomes a big thing, especially since it looks like he has a watertight case. Not a great look for an organisation that sells intellectual property to have not paid for 50% of the IP produced.

 

Oh and I'd be getting HR to have a talk with Marty.

 

Would this story put off customers? Possibly some. But what this story will do if there isn't a happy resolution is make it difficult for them to find talent for future projects. What musician would want to sign up for a Bethesda / iD title right now with those conditions?

[Down by Law]

 

Good to see this story picking up traction. I bet there's some interesting conversations between Microsoft, Bethesda and ID this morning.

[dataDave]

Now that's precisely how you conduct yourself when publicly disputing pay and working conditions. He must have spent a good few days putting that together, and I wouldn't at all be surprised if he'd gotten a law professional to look over it too, because that's one utterly airtight defense of one's own reputation.

 

I hope he finds better luck working elsewhere. I've not played Eternal, but he proved me more than wrong by producing a stellar soundtrack for the 2016 DOOM. It's a shame he quite clearly won't be back for more, but it'd be an even bigger shame if he left this industry entirely.

[danbot]

I really hope that something comes of Mick Gordon's statement. Not seen any response from Stratton. Maybe he's not engaging in the hope of it going away as quickly and quietly as possible.

With the considerable evidence of his wrongdoing and the damage to Gordon's reputation it'd be really shitty if it just went away.

[deerokus]

I actually got a stress migraine reading Mick Gordon's account. Admirable that he still wants anything to do with the video game industry.

 

Marty Stratton seems like a real scumbag.

[Unofficial Who]

10 hours ago, deerokus said:

I actually got a stress migraine reading Mick Gordon's account. Admirable that he still wants anything to do with the video game industry.

 

Marty Stratton seems like a real scumbag.

 

Interesting thing. One of the issues in Mick's complaint was that Reddit post that Marty made dragging him through the mud. Mick wanted it taken down. Marty wanted it kept up and through lawyers and influencing mods it has stayed up.

 

Today however? It's still up. But it's now locked. Labelled as "Potentially Misleading: see pinned comment".

 

I'm guessing right about now Marty would love to quietly take it down but now he can't.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Doom/comments/gdg25y/doom_eternal_ost_open_letter/

 

Pinned comment by mods reads

 

Quote

It has come to my attention that Mick has made an extensive public statement regarding the allegations in this post, among other things. In light of this new information, there have been many requests to remove Marty's post. In the interest of maintaining the historical record I believe it's important to leave this post in place. However it's clearly time we heard the other side as well.

Mick Gordon: "My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal"

EDIT: Locking Marty's post as it just pushes SEO higher in the search engines when people comment here, and we don't have the manpower to moderate the sheer amount of new comments. Civil discussion should be taken elsewhere, such as the currently-pinned post on the subreddit.

Note that moderators don't have the ability to edit other people's posts, reset upvote counts, etc. The post is remaining up for historical context.

 

Is this a both sides thing or a case of malicious compliance to the max?

 

In any case I can see this gaining a lot of attention in the music world. Given the allegations good luck Bethesda finding composers unless something is done to make this right.

[Unofficial Who]

Sterling is also following it up.

 

 

[layten]

Bethesda claim to have receipts showing otherwise

 

[Down by Law]

The opening statement says he mischaracterised the entire dev team but reading Mick's account there were only issues with Marty and Chad. Chad wasn't even really accused of anything other than to back up Mick's claims about Marty, and Mick even posted this

 

 

They also say "we stand ready with full and complete documentated evidence to disclose in an appropriate venue when needed" which reads pretty hollow when Marty posted his side of the story on Reddit of all places, which is still up.

 

The fact it took them a week to post this tells me they were hoping the story was just going to go away but now it's rolling on all major news sites they had to say something.

 

Gonna need to see what they've got before drawing a conclusion but after reading the entirety of Mick's post last week with the ton of colloborating evidence he provided makes me lean toward Mick on this one. 

[danbot]

I love that there are so many replies to Bethesda's shitty tweet calling it out for the utter bullshit that it is.

[Giddas]

13 hours ago, layten said:

Bethesda claim to have receipts showing otherwise

 

 

Very strange they don't directly address any of the claims with their "full and complete documented evidence", which they definitely have.