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Xbox Product Name Placeholder (Project Scarlett)

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44 minutes ago, The Mighty Ash said:

Masses = 5% of ps4 owners.

 

The market for vr is tiny, as demonstrated by the lack new games for psvr this year. 

What I meant is it makes it accessible to the masses. Whether the masses actually buy into it is another thing..... :)

 

IMHO VR on general is the single most innovative thing that has happened to gaming in the last decade. I first tried Occulus Rift around 4 years ago... It needed a beast of a PC to run well, lots of sensors, space and the content was mainly demos and played Project Cars 2. I was blown away at that point. But was way beyond my budget. 

 

I thought that Sony's solution would be a half baked gimmick in comparison to what I'd experienced so held of. It now has dropped to a point where you can just pick one at a knock down price to give it a try. Realised how wrong I was about this. Had I experienced this when it was released then it would have been an instabuy! Which is the problem £400 seems a bit ask from price conscious console gamers. Especially when they have paid £300+ for the console already and it difficult to get a feel for what you are buying as there are so few places with demo setups.

 

Ultimately I think it will take off big time when the headsets get smaller, all wires and boxes are gone and of course the price comes down. It just feels such an intuitive way to play. I feel we are on the cusp of a new wave of computing in general with VR and AI. The tech isn't quite user friendly at the moment and a bit rough around the edges but the rough edges will be worked away. 

 

Screens and controllers and going to feel so old school in ten years... Sure there will be some diehards still using them though.....

 

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6 minutes ago, MattyP said:

Ultimately I think it will take off big time when the headsets get smaller, all wires and boxes are gone. It just feels such an intuitive way to play. I feel we are on the cusp of a new wave of computing in general with VR and AI. The tech isn't quite user friendly at the moment

Maybe you're right, maybe not - but what you say here is key. And neither the hardware nor the software looks like it will reach this point in the upcoming generation. It's certainly not at this point right now, so Spencer is completely right to focus on other stuff right now - like selling as many people as possible on a service. If VR ever moves beyond the niche that it is now, I'd imagine Microsoft can simply announce X-VR* at that point.

 

*X-Real? Virtua-X? X-Life?

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8 minutes ago, Mr. Gerbik said:

Maybe you're right, maybe not - but what you say here is key. And neither the hardware nor the software looks like it will reach this point in the upcoming generation. It's certainly not at this point right now, so Spencer is completely right to focus on other stuff right now - like selling as many people as possible on a service. If VR ever moves beyond the niche that it is now, I'd imagine Microsoft can simply announce X-VR* at that point.

 

*X-Real? Virtua-X? X-Life?

 

Indeed but they will behind the rest of the competition at that point..... Think it's certainly going to be an interesting next decade of gaming and technology that is for sure! Glad I'm around to experience it!

 

Anyway apologies for the slight thread derail. Be interesting to see where MS take Xbox going forward. One thing is for sure though just building ever more powerful boxes won't cut it long term...

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The reality is they wont be behind anything as VR still has no influence in the market. It's not a system seller. Instead of investing 100's of millions of their own money, Come the time an interesting title arrives they can license one of the PC VR units at little cost to them. Having your own VR device is just a loss leader.

 

They probably remember the fallout from making a number of the developers work on Kinect only titles and people in the industry/gaming forums citing how they'd ruined and wasted those dev houses. If you launch a VR solution you need to put a large amount of resources into making specialised games that a tiny percentage of the userbase is going to use and at the moment think it's just not worth it.

 

They're right. They need to continue investing in Game Pass and growing and adding developers.

 

 

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VR being the near-future has always been massively overstated. There's a reason why most gaming outlets barely cover VR games anymore - they get no clicks and are reader poison. An optional peripheral reaching 5% of a console installed base isn't a disaster but given how cheap PSVR is right now (over Black Friday you could pick it up for around £200 with 5 bundled games) we're still not exactly seeing the mass market falling over themselves to get involved.

 

Maybe when it's cheap and wireless and the screens aren't blurry and pixelated and you're basically just putting a pair of glasses on it might take off but that is years and years away. Sales of VR games as a percentage of the overall market are basically a rounding error. I think MS are making the right decision for now by concentrating on proving they can win back marketshare with Scarlett on traditional territory.

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34 minutes ago, MattyP said:

Anyway apologies for the slight thread derail. Be interesting to see where MS take Xbox going forward. One thing is for sure though just building ever more powerful boxes won't cut it long term...

 

Luckily gamepass and xcloud seem to be quite visionary :)

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Agree that MS are making the best moves at the moment to regain market share for sure. GP is great as is the fact they are focussing on developing some exclusive content.

 

It will be interesting to see how it all pans out over the next 5 years!

 

One thing that is great though is that they are embracing the PC.

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3 minutes ago, The Mighty Ash said:

Luckily gamepass and xcloud seem to be quite visionary :)

They are... Wouldn't say they are visionary though... We've had subscription services before and streaming. Unless of course you were being ironic. :)

 

But yes great that for the first time you can get AAA console titles from a mainstream console platform. Exciting times....

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1 minute ago, MattyP said:

They are... Wouldn't say they are visionary though... We've had subscription services before and streaming.

 

A company that was genuinely risk averse wouldn't even begin to think about putting all first party titles on a subscription service let alone release them day one.

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44 minutes ago, MattyP said:

They are... Wouldn't say they are visionary though... We've had subscription services before and streaming. Unless of course you were being ironic. :)

 

But yes great that for the first time you can get AAA console titles from a mainstream console platform. Exciting times....

Dude, VR isn't new and attempts at VR gaming have been done before even as early as the nineties. It's about implementation and impact. Yes, streaming has been done before - but if Stadia, Xcloud, and PS Now make a meaningful impact and change the way we game - then *that* is revolutionary. Same thing with the Game Pass service, the idea of the Netflix of gaming isn't new but the way Microsoft is going in on it could be revolutionary. Maybe it won't be, but there's a distinct possibility given how all-in they're going and that could be visionary in hindsight.

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14 hours ago, APM said:

Citation needed.

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2019-11-28-phil-spencer-nobodys-asking-for-vr-on-xbox

 

Nice to see this has generated actual debate and conversation, my post was not intended to be inflammatory. :)

 

The point about PSVR lacking games this year is a valid one. We've had Blood & Truth, and No Man's Sky, and... I think that's it for games of note this year on PSVR. VR does need support, but VR very much is the future of gaming, and MS are at risk of coming into it too late, and being left behind. 

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1 minute ago, Thor said:

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2019-11-28-phil-spencer-nobodys-asking-for-vr-on-xbox

 

Nice to see his has generated actual debate and conversation, my post was not intended to be inflammatory. :)

 

The point about PSVR lacking games this year is a valid one. We've had Blood & Truth, and No Man's Sky, and... I think that's it for games of note this year on PSVR. VR does need support, but VR very much is the future of gaming, and MS are at risk of coming into it too late, and being left behind. 

You've missed my point. I know what he said. I wanted to see your evidence that vr is what people want on Xbox. All I read is your opinion. VR is not the future of gaming.

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There might of been less PSVR stuff this year, but there is a thing called the PlayStation 5 looming, with presumably PSVR2 maybe even at launch. 
These new things take time & resources to make. 

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Just now, Thor said:

Time will tell. 

Yes. Yes it will. I don't think VR is going anywhere, but I don't think all gaming is heading that way, at least not in the next console generation, anyway.

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10 minutes ago, Kevvy Metal said:

There might of been less PSVR stuff this year, but there is a thing called the PlayStation 5 looming, with presumably PSVR2 maybe even at launch. 
These new things take time & resources to make. 


there’s no way they throw out psvr2 at launch. The tech gets better year on year, and 5% attach of a couple of million install base isn’t going to work for Sony.

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As Xbox turns into a universal platform I can easily imagine an Xbox VR branch. Once Scarlett is out and the console and pc platforms are doing their thing it will be just another part of it. They'll probably buy another company to specialise in it sometime between now and then.

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If and when they do branch into VR. I hope they put a camera on the front so that you can flick between game and living room. 

 

Trying to to find my beer when I’m playing PSVR gets dangerous. 

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44 minutes ago, Kevvy Metal said:

There might of been less PSVR stuff this year, but there is a thing called the PlayStation 5 looming, with presumably PSVR2 maybe even at launch. 
These new things take time & resources to make. 


I’m pretty sure they said no PSVR2 at launch but it’ll support PSVR. It makes more sense to launch PSVR2 a year or so after.

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I can see streaming becoming the next big thing in gaming simply because it's convenient - all you need is a cheap dongle in your tv or a free app on your smart device of choice, and away you go. Personally I prefer a traditional console, but I wouldn't be surprised if streaming became the future of gaming simply because the masses love convenience. If it works acceptably well, and it's extremely convenient, you have a wide appeal.

 

VR looks to me like the opposite of convenient in its current state and form factor. And I don't think that will change anytime soon, at least not during the upcoming generation.

 

And speaking purely from the perspective of my personal situation: as a father it's simply not possible to cut myself off completely from the real world like that. "You go play with your cars and don't get into any accidents or burn down the house while daddy goes to Planet X to kill some goddamn aliens, ok?"

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Just now, KriessG said:


I’m pretty sure they said no PSVR2 at launch but it’ll support PSVR. It makes more sense to launch PSVR2 a year or so after.


fair enough then! I’d still assume that a lot of dev resources have been moved onto VR PS5 development. 

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19 hours ago, Thor said:

Phil Spencer has been quoted as saying "Nobody's asking for VR on Xbox" which as patent bullshit. He basically doesn't like VR; what a short-sighted muppet. He needs to go. He just about steadied what was a very rocky ship. But now Xbox needs a visionary, Phil Spencer clearly isn't one. 

 

This is the sort of narrative that radiates out of Sony fanboy dungeons like Pushsquare (Eurogamers sister-site), based on a quote taken out of context from the Eurogamer article a while ago. There is no walking back of anything, since in reality VR has not been a success for Sony or anyone else in that market. Sony have probably lost a lot of money on PSVR so far, and House and Hirai may have had to leave their positions over it. So there is no reason for XGS to suddenly spend a lot of resources on this, since the number so far show that most people dont care about VR. They are probably referring to tens of millions of sales for a VR unit for it to be a consideration; Kinect sold 30 million units.

 

And its not like Microsoft arent working with VR. Most of the people using VR to play HL:Alyx are going to be playing on a Windows system. They can always use some of that knowledge to make this a thing for the xbox if that becomes something people actually want.

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12 hours ago, Orbital2060 said:

This is the sort of narrative that radiates out of Sony fanboy dungeons like Pushsquare (Eurogamers sister-site), based on a quote taken out of context from the Eurogamer article a while ago. There is no walking back of anything, since in reality VR has not been a success for Sony or anyone else in that market. Sony have probably lost a lot of money on PSVR so far, and House and Hirai may have had to leave their positions over it.

 

To be fair, this bit reads like Xbox fan fiction.

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Oh wow @Orbital2060, you bust out the fanboy jibe, then post a load of supposition to back up your stance. 'Probably this', and 'may have that'. You should be a spin doctor for the BBC. :coffee:

 

Your Kinect argument is, frankly, fucking hilarious. Sure, in terms of sales Kinect was a commercial success. But how much of those sales are the 'bundled in with the original One' sales that forced purchasers into buying tech they did not want? And just where the fuck is Kinect now? Oh, that's right, it's completely dead ... because while it was a commercial success, on a practical level it was an epic failure. 

 

The only fanboy comment in this thread since I made my original post, is yours. 

 

tenor.gif?itemid=9170017

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So yeah back to the VR talk.  It's not selling enough to go mainstream.  It won't be at launch of a MS console as that would take away from the core message that MS will want to put out at the time which will be it plays games. The latest and previous gens. You can do a Netflix like subscription for their game pass service. That's probably about it I reckon. No point talking about VR that will appeal to about 10 people or divert resources from studios that will be going full tilt to make sure they have something to put up against the Sony 1st party juggernaut.  

The consoles are going to be relatively evenly matched.  It's going to come down to games and getting people subscribing for that sweet sweet regular income. 

 

VR can and will come later. Sony are to be applauded for pushing it but even they would admit it's not taken off like they hoped. Was a good bet but it hasn't paid off. Their non VR games are what has made people buy into their ecosystem.

 

For MS any VR hardware is going to be pushed by 3rd parties that are will likely end up being wireless and not require external camera's.   Either select a partner when the tech is right and cheap enough or at that point licence the tech and make a branded Xbox headset.   That would give way more flexibility and reduce risk I would have thought. 

Sure Sony has a head start but it's not exactly huge. Just over 4 million units sold somewhere at the start of the year against 100 million PS4's.   Smaller ratio than MegaCD's to Megadrives! (2 million to 30 million Megadrives).

 

 

  

 

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14 hours ago, Thor said:

VR does need support, but VR very much is the future of gaming, and MS are at risk of coming into it too late, and being left behind. 


1995 called.

 

VR has always been the future of gaming, and yet here we are with multiple available commercial units making a minor impact on the general market. Maybe it’s an idea that seems better in theory than it is in practice. Maybe it just needs time. Either way, the mass market aren’t picking it up at a rate that makes it look like the future of anything but eBay at the moment.

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6 hours ago, Broker said:


1995 called.

 

VR has always been the future of gaming, and yet here we are with multiple available commercial units making a minor impact on the general market. Maybe it’s an idea that seems better in theory than it is in practice. Maybe it just needs time. Either way, the mass market aren’t picking it up at a rate that makes it look like the future of anything but eBay at the moment.


VR is great, but is currently something where there are additional barriers to entry that aren’t going to be resolved in the six months. A headset released in the 2022-2023 timeframe when there’s a decent install base of the console will be much more capable, and have a hell of a lot more potential software to get ported from PC, than a quest-lite that needs to be bought in addition to Scarlett now.

 

Sony are in a different position, but there’s a reason they’re not going to launch a PSVR 2 next year.

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7 hours ago, Broker said:


1995 called.

 

VR has always been the future of gaming, and yet here we are with multiple available commercial units making a minor impact on the general market. Maybe it’s an idea that seems better in theory than it is in practice. Maybe it just needs time. Either way, the mass market aren’t picking it up at a rate that makes it look like the future of anything but eBay at the moment.

 

No I think its just that it needs lots of wires and hardware.... Soon as everything gets more compact, wireless and generally more user friendly it will not hit the mass market, But tech gets better and cheaper so it's time will come.... Problem is at the moment is accessibility its difficult to get demos of the kit such as PSVR/Occulus in store and I think many people just see it as gimmicky and expensive without actually experiencing it. 

 

Remember reading Neuromancer all those years ago about jacking in to the system... getting there.... Oh and things like Ready Player One...... It'll happen. Just trying to figure out whether or not this will actually be a good thing..... :D 

 

However for me the PSVR is a great introduction to the tech at an affordable price. Something I've been waiting for since well around 1993 when Atari were talking VR for the Jaguar... :) At least now someone has delivered what I wanted back then...

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7 hours ago, Broker said:

Either way, the mass market aren’t picking it up at a rate that makes it look like the future of anything but eBay at the moment.

Come back when you've actually tried VR. :coffee:

 

The VR market is growing, and this growth will only speed up as the convenience aspect of it (because @Mr. Gerbik makes a good point about that) is improved. Oculus have already eliminated the inconvenience of external cameras/sensors with inside-out tracking, and the Quest is already a fully wireless system. In a couple of years VR is more likely to be mainstream, not ebay fodder. 

 

 

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