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22 minutes ago, Dirty Harry Potter said:

No it’s not there yet- but AR/VR (which at some point will converge) will get smaller, lighter and more immersive until it’s basically the main way people experience content. And I can see it dividing a generation in the same way email or computer literacy did. Lots of older people won’t take to it, but that’s not going to stop the generation below them.

 

I don't agree with this, if anything the generation that seem really up on VR are the ones who grew up in the 90s on tales of cyberspace or the metaverse, etc. The problem is those stories were supposed to be portal fantasies, isekai's, places where your miserable teen can read about some other miserable teen that they identify with suddenly getting some awesome life that they really deserve, but y'know themed around computers and this newfangled information superhighway rather than big tiddy elves.

 

It was adolescent fantasy, not a blueprint for the future.

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13 minutes ago, Broker said:

Says the guy who has declared a new type of screen as the inescapable future of an entire medium and refuses to even consider any other viewpoint on it. I've tried VR, and am still investigating it, you're the one who has decided that their sunk costs are going to trump logic and evidence every step of the way.

I have said no such thing. I still love my 2D gaming - see my posts in the Days Gone and Jedi Fallen Order threads (and that's just two this year), the latter is probably my game of the year. As for what you're saying about 'sunk costs' or 'betting on a future', you're being an actual twat with those comments. 

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Again, hugely defensive about bad words about VR that upset you whilst also being vaguely abusive and failing to address any of the criticisms of VR. I don't know if it's sunk costs or not, but the frequency with which VR purchasers are angry children about people not loving their new toy really isn't helping sell it. I'm starting to get a fixie bike vibe whenever it comes up in conversation.

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I played Duke Nukem 3D in multiplayer VR circa 1995 in Blackburn. It was brilliant fun but if they couldn't make it mainstream in the thick end of a quarter of a century...

 

First, it is a great idea in search of a problem. And second, it can only ever be an add-on.

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I own a PSVR and a Rift and I can fully understand why it isn't a priority for Microsoft. The PSVR is still 20 million units behind the what the original Kinect achieved despite having a better game library, so if you're in charge of games at Microsoft why on earth would you go down that road when it's clear the appetite isn't there yet?

 

I say this as someone who's most anticipated game for next year is Iron Man VR, which I played at EGX and it blew me away with what full immersion can do.

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I like Phil a lot and think hes really turned it around. I don't see why he didn't just say "we are not looking at VR at launch but will keep investigating and if you guys want it, let us know"

 

I've dabbled a bit on my friends VR and like it a lot.  I really want to play Alyx but little desire to own an actual kit at home.  I'm buying scarlett - so fk knows what deographic i am, probably Phils target. 

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I decided to research the sustainability of VR a bit further and found an interesting article from Forbes about the state of VR in 2019:

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/solrogers/2019/06/21/2019-the-year-virtual-reality-gets-real/

 

Some highlights:

 

Quote

2019 is already turning out to be a strong year for VR, providing a solid base for growth. Oculus Quest, Facebook’s standalone headset, is creating a lot of interest and momentum. The headset launched in May and sold out across multiple stores a week after launch. Facebook’s VP of AR/VR, Andrew Bosworth, says that in the first two weeks of Oculus Quest headset sales, there were $5 million worth of content sales. Despite a lack of official sales stats, some estimate that Facebook could sell more than 1 million units in 2019—this would be huge if it happened.

 

Quote

This month, Road to VR reported that the monthly-connected VR headsets on Steam have surpassed 1 million for the first time. Ben Lang commented, “After correcting for Steam’s changing population, we find that May 2019 was the first month on record to see more than 1 million monthly-connected headsets on the platform. Year over year, monthly-connected headsets on Steam are up 80%.”

 

Quote

In March, Sony announced it had sold 4.2 million PlayStation VR (PSVR) headsets. Earlier this month, Playstation lead Jim Ryan told CNet, “The current generation of VR has exceeded our expectations.

 

https---blogs-images.forbes.com-solrogers-files-2019-06-Screen-Shot-2019-06-20-at-14.26.45.jpg.png

 

Now I'll grant you that the Sony comment could just be a mere face saving exercise, as I've no idea what their expectations were. For an expensive peripheral which requires another €80 worth of peripherals to be used correctly, I guess a one in twenty attach rate isn't too bad, but for a new platform (which is what they initially announced it as) it would be very poor, so I don't buy that they're blown away by the result. That said, Blood & Truth was the first VR game to hit the number one spot in the charts, so I do think that momentum is going in the right direction, whether it's going far and fast enough to justify pouring millions into development is another question of course.

At the end of the day, I don't think having or not having VR is going to be make and break for either Sony or Microsoft, but I don't think VR is going away. The tech is going to get better and cheaper, the barriers to entry smaller and so the opportunity for developers to make money on it greater. Crucially, and unlike many other flash in the pan, novelty tech products, VR has delivered a few genuine hit games like Beat Sabre, Gorn and Super Hot VR and it does have a passionate base of support who advocate for it.

I think it'll be a complimentary experience for as far as I can see into the future, but I can't see a day anymore where no new VR tech or games are released. For those who want it, I think there will be hardware and software available.

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I think Phil’s comments are just poorly timed. If he’d said this a few weeks ago before the Alyx trailer I imagine the narrative would be very different, with more “is VR dead now?” talk than we’ve gotten because of when he happened to say it.

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33 minutes ago, Plissken said:

I played Duke Nukem 3D in multiplayer VR circa 1995 in Blackburn. It was brilliant fun but if they couldn't make it mainstream in the thick end of a quarter of a century...

 

First, it is a great idea in search of a problem. And second, it can only ever be an add-on.

 

To be fair, getting hold of a copy of Duke 3D before it was made probably took away a lot of time from the other jobs.

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20 hours ago, Broker said:


I’veBut all of it is glitchy, ugly, uncomfortable and basic in terms of the actual mechanics. Which makes investing in VR as a consumer now a risky proposition. If we’re really only a few years from user friendly, comfortable headsets, why buy a shite one now?

 

 

"risky proposition" :lol:

It's a VR headset, not a trip to Syria.

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Risky value proposition? Difficult to justify spending money on when there’s a reasonable chance of failure? Obviously a shite deal? 
 

Take your pick.

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Future casting is always a silly thing to do, but I have to say - the PSVR, at least (it's the only one I've used for any length of time) I think shows VR is both a convincing home use case, and a reasonable way off in terms of mass market. It's significantly more comfortable than some of the others - it seems much more effectively counter-weighted than a lot of the others with all the weight at the front - easy to get setup and with what's now a very extensive line-up of games. I was browsing the PS Store for VR the other day, and there's page after page of games for it (Sony are advertising a catalogue of 500+ titles, I think, in their current TV advertising.)

 

Having said that, it's also probably a little low-res, still a little prone to drift and/or losing sight of you, and the screen is hot and heavy and obviously a lot more to swap around when you want to take turns.

 

I think there's titles on there that absolutely make the case that VR can be a compelling prospect. And, without them having massively pushed it yet, this massive encumbering, isolating peripheral - that needs all this gubbins and arrangement to get going - has sold quite a few units.

 

I think writing it off as a dead end at this point is likely incorrect. Comparisons to 3D, whilst amusing, don't hold much water for me.

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I think it’s probably true that the public don’t want VR at the moment, but at the same time, you have to make the public want something like this, not just wait for them to spontaneously buy VR headsets until there’s enough of them to make something really spectacular for them to use them with. The problem with VR at the moment is that most of the use cases seem to be either short ‘experiences’ or indie games, neither of which are really going to sell Joan Public a £200+ Geordi LaForge space visor. Someone needs to take the plunge and develop something fucking amazing, a Halo or a GTA or a Zelda that people will really want to play, before it really takes off.

 

It feels like VR has some inherent drawbacks, in that it’s additional expense on top of your already-expensive console, it’s the most anti-social form of videogames imaginable, and you look like a wazzock, but if the right game is there, then I can see it being a success. Valve sound like they might be the people to do it – I don’t think Half-Life 2 was ever a big seller in the same way that, say, Call of Duty is, but it feels like something that would help get a critical mass of people on-board and generate a load of ideas and a template for other people to iterate on.

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It's notable to me that the game most like a big-budget "AAA" story/singleplayer game today (Blood and Truth), whilst pretty successful at what it's trying to be, isn't the one anyone sane would show it off with. Stuff like Beat Saber, or Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes, etc. Which perhaps don't look like £300 of value.

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27 minutes ago, Broker said:

Risky value proposition? Difficult to justify spending money on when there’s a reasonable chance of failure? Obviously a shite deal? 
 

Take your pick.

What risk do you think is attached? I bought one in 2016, and theres been hundreds of games released and some of the absolute best gaming experiences I have ever had. What risk? If you buy a PSVR today its better value than ever.

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14 minutes ago, Uncle Mike said:

It's notable to me that the game most like a big-budget "AAA" story/singleplayer game today (Blood and Truth), whilst pretty successful at what it's trying to be, isn't the one anyone sane would show it off with. Stuff like Beat Saber, or Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes, etc. Which perhaps don't look like £300 of value.

 

Yeah, Blood & Truth looks great fun, but also like something that belongs in the late-nineties lad ghetto that most people would also stick VR helmets in. It reminds me of that line from Peep Show where Mark says in the most withering tone of voice to Jeremy: 'You were going to "twat" a "geezer"? Have you been playing the Lock Stock & Two Smoking Barrels computer game?".

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1 hour ago, Plissken said:

Which was the version where you had a level where you were running around an American Football pitch?

 

Descent was another one around that time.

 

To be fair it came out the next year so you could just be a year out on the memory :)

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3 hours ago, PeteBrant said:

What risk do you think is attached? I bought one in 2016, and theres been hundreds of games released and some of the absolute best gaming experiences I have ever had. What risk? If you buy a PSVR today its better value than ever.


The risk I waste my money on something that entertains me less than Something else I could’ve bought I guess? Like when I bought Red Dead digitally and now I’m stuck with it in my library reminding me what a stupid waste of money it was and how dumb it was to buy it?

 

A new PSVR is what, twenty pizzas? Twenty nice, happy pizza filled evenings. I’m not sure PSVR will be as good as that. Or a new monitor. Or a graphics tablet for zbrush work. There’s a lot of things I could buy that I know I’ll enjoy, and definitely won’t be gimmicky and ultimately forgotten.

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I'm wouldn't be surprised if the original plan for Xbox VR was to add compatability for WMR headsets at some point. WMR headsets have exactly set the world alight though. 

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22 minutes ago, monkeydog said:

I'm wouldn't be surprised if the original plan for Xbox VR was to add compatability for WMR headsets at some point. WMR headsets have exactly set the world alight though. 

The HP Reverb Pro is supposed to pretty good in terms of visual quality. It's my understanding the WMR headsets aren't the problem; it's the WMR platform being a bit a shit and half arsed. 

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I think there is a market, but that current manufacturers don't understand how off-putting their breadbins are. I also feel that they're overrating full immersion, and that most people don't want to be entirely disconnected from the real world. High image quality, a comfortable refresh rate, and no wires are also required.

 

Having something strapped to your head that also deafens you... nah. That's why I mentioned built-in speakers on the arms of an LG design, mounted by the hinges and angled slightly towards. Audio would emanate a tiny bit above and ahead of your ears, but I think that's fine. Then you could just pause/mute the game and immediately hear your surroundings. Likewise, if you felt queasy you could just take it off like a pair of glasses, which they are. Having to plan your exit before you hurl adds to the claustrophobia that I wouldn't tolerate. And PSVR looks like a feckin' futuretech croupier's hat from the '90s!

 

The controllers are coming along well, though. I'd have no major complaints there.

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PSVR 2 could be the breakthrough that VR needs. If Sony can get the design and pricing right for what I presume will be autumn 2021, and launch with Astrobot 2 (the most obvious thing for them to do), it could not only bring VR to the mainstream but also give them a massive leg-up in the next gen war.

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And this time around MS could launch with the more powerful console, and then VR (and the associated additional costs) is moot.

 

MS won’t put money into VR based on FOMO, either.

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1 hour ago, Eighthours said:

PSVR 2 could be the breakthrough that VR needs. If Sony can get the design and pricing right for what I presume will be autumn 2021, and launch with Astrobot 2 (the most obvious thing for them to do), it could not only bring VR to the mainstream but also give them a massive leg-up in the next gen war.

 

If they can make a pair of Tony Stark glasses and price them for £100 you could be right.

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