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Xbox Series X - 10 November. Get ready for 8am Tue.


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Just now, Harsin said:


The problem with this approach is that paying top dollar for a Series X then starts to feel a bit like buying a Lamborghini only to pootle around on B rroads with it.

 

This is going to be key. They need to make the X seem like a premium product or people won't be convinced. However, I think it's fair to expect the X to be the best version of multiplatform games so it shouldn't feel like that ...as long as the S doesn't get too close to it.

 

It's a really interesting launch. 

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1 minute ago, Harsin said:


The problem with this approach is that paying top dollar for a Series X then starts to feel a bit like buying a Lamborghini only to pootle around on B rroads with it.


Sure, but people spend top dollar for the top of the range iPhone so they can get an extra camera they’ll probably forget they have. You don’t necessarily need to have a compelling differentiating feature for your top of the line model to sell.
 

Although “literally four times the graphics” is probably going to be a good way of enticing people to spend a little more once they’ve decided that the Xbox Series S is too good a bargain to ignore.

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2 minutes ago, Harsin said:


The problem with this approach is that paying top dollar for a Series X then starts to feel a bit like buying a Lamborghini only to pootle around on B rroads with it.

If they announce Series S at launch then the X is the same as current gen you pay extra for maximum fps and shinies.

 

Apart from 1st party the games are the same regardless if you buy PS5 a Series S or Series X

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9 minutes ago, Stanley said:

You’re looking at it back to front - Series S (or X) isn’t a “side door” to Gamepass. Gamepass is the platform, the main attraction, and S is just the cheapest point of entry. 
 

As for it having no significant impact on sales, if that’s the case why are the base PS4 and Xbox One S the biggest sellers? 

 

I think the question is why is the base PS4 so much ahead of the One S?

 

I agree that Game Pass is the platform and that S is the cheapest point of entry, that makes more sense as a strategy. But I don't think it is the best way to do it. The best way for me would be to design your strategy around a single, cheaper than the competition console, and pull people in by offering "a netflix of games" of shorts. Have one based strategy, one identity, as the others two have. Microsoft is certainly going towards that but it seems they are trying to get both kind of consumers before they fully commit and that will end up with a mixed message.

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If the Series S is more popular than the Series X (if the only difference is price and resolution then it might well do) and the Series S is created from leftovers on the factory floor from Series X production, then how does that work if the Series S becomes market leader? What yields are they expecting from Series X production and how do they manufacture more Series S's if no one is interested in the Series X?

 

"I'm confused!" /Partridge

 

 

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1 minute ago, Fargo said:

I really hope the fact that the controllers are out there seemingly ready to go to retail means we get the series X/S launching in the next few weeks. I’d love 2 months to enjoy the Xbox before the PS5 drops in November. It can be overwhelming with two consoles launching on top of each other. 
 

In terms of the difference between the two xboxes I think the S will still have a disk drive and simply be a 1080p option. 

 

Given that they are (I assume) compatible with every Xbox, maybe they'll be on the market before the new systems launch. 

 

I can't imagine a world where Microsoft get their systems out on shelves before Sony announce a price, but it would be amazing if they did an Apple style "Available now" in their next webcast.

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1 minute ago, Talk Show Host said:

 

I think the question is why is the base PS4 so much ahead than the One S?

 

 

TVTVTV

 

The launch disaster of Xbox One consigned it to a life of trying to catch up by being "pro consumer". A disaster that almost undid all the good work that they did with the 360.

 

The die was cast early on and even late in life when you had gamepass to wave under the noses of the new console buyers all they saw was the juggernaut install base of PS4 - all their friends had one , it was better than the Bone etc.

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5 minutes ago, Alex W. said:


The mid range iPhones are consistently the best selling ones now. As long as it’s this year’s model, people have been going for the iPhone XR or 11 over the iPhone X and the 11 Pro.

 

That is what I am saying. There are arguably better phones at midrange but people go for the iPhones. 

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3 minutes ago, Wahwah* said:

 

Given that they are (I assume) compatible with every Xbox, maybe they'll be on the market before the new systems launch. 

 

I can't imagine a world where Microsoft get their systems out on shelves before Sony announce a price, but it would be amazing if they did an Apple style "Available now" in their next webcast.


They did a similar drop with the 360 S where it was available In the US the week after it was announced 

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I think comparisons to top-end iPhone sales success are flawed.

 

Apple are a status symbol company, compared to their competitors to a certain extent.

 

MS are really, really not.

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6 minutes ago, Clipper said:

TVTVTV

 

The launch disaster of Xbox One consigned it to a life of trying to catch up by being "pro consumer". A disaster that almost undid all the good work that they did with the 360.

 

The die was cast early on and even late in life when you had gamepass to wave under the noses of the new console buyers all they saw was the juggernaut install base of PS4 - all their friends had one , it was better than the Bone etc.

 

Exactly. A disaster which came by Microsoft not having a clear message or identity. Even in the previous generation though, the early problems of the PS3 didn't hold it back in the end. If Microsoft wants to bring people in their platform (game pass) it would be a better way imo to focus their efforts fully on that and have a totally clear message. I don't believe the power split between the series S/Series X is the best way to bring new audience on Game Pass. 

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3 minutes ago, Talk Show Host said:

 

Exactly. A disaster which came by Microsoft not having a clear message or identity.

The message was crystal clear

 

XBOX was to be the ONE entertainment box in your living room - TVTVTV - it does everything - TVTVTV- your ONE stop for ALL your living room entertainment controlled from ONE box using your voice and hands.

 

Simple message carried by its actual name.

 

And everyone saw the message and said no thanks don't want that I want a games console that plays games.

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12 minutes ago, Talk Show Host said:

 

I think the question is why is the base PS4 so much ahead of the One S?

 

I agree that Game Pass is the platform and that S is the cheapest point of entry, that makes more sense as a strategy. But I don't think it is the best way to do it. The best way for me would be to design your strategy around a single, cheaper than the competition console, and pull people in by offering "a netflix of games" of shorts. Have one based strategy, one identity, as the others two have. Microsoft is certainly going towards that but it seems they are trying to get both kind of consumers before they fully commit and that will end up with a mixed message.

Isn’t this exactly what they are doing? They’re offering the cheapest console on the market that comes with the “Netflix of games” - or if you want, the most powerful console on the market which also comes with it. So they can market themselves by being both “best” and “cheapest” - whereas the only way Sony have managed to do it is by making one without a disc drive, and therefore less of a choice or distinction. Everyone would rather have the disc version PS5 because there’s not enough of a saving in the digital version. 

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6 minutes ago, Clipper said:

The message was crystal clear

 

XBOX was to be the ONE entertainment box in your living room - TVTVTV - it does everything - TVTVTV- your ONE stop for ALL your living room entertainment controlled from ONE box using your voice and hands.

 

Simple message carried by its actual name.

 

And everyone saw the message and said no thanks don't want that I want a games console that plays games.

 

Yes, that is a bit semantics though. "Entertainment box" also means games, but they failed to convince people of either because they didn't have a clear strategy to provide both. 

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17 minutes ago, Wahwah* said:

I can't imagine a world where Microsoft get their systems out on shelves before Sony announce a price, but it would be amazing if they did an Apple style "Available now" in their next webcast.

 

Went great for the Saturn!

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5 minutes ago, Clipper said:

The message was crystal clear

 

XBOX was to be the ONE entertainment box in your living room - TVTVTV - it does everything - TVTVTV- your ONE stop for ALL your living room entertainment controlled from ONE box using your voice and hands.

 

Simple message carried by its actual name.

 

And everyone saw the message and said no thanks don't want that I want a games console that plays games.

 

Let's not forget that bit about how everything was to be powered by the cloud and you absolutely could not trade-in games or even loan them to friends. They were pretty clear on that until they quickly 180'd, by which point it was too late.

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4 minutes ago, Talk Show Host said:

 

Yes, that is a bit semantics though. "Entertainment box" also means game, but they failed to convince people of either because they didn't have a clear strategy to provide both. 

I disagree - the message was clear.

 

Noone was confused as to what they meant it is just noone wanted a one stop shop for all their entertainment

 

Noone wanted trading of physical games to be curtailed.

 

That buried the launch as they went in balls deep on a message their current 360 players didn't want. What the playing base wanted was a better xbox that played better games.

 

They didn't get that AND it cost £80 more than the PS4.


That is why I bought a PS4 at launch and didn't buy an Xbox One until just over a year later.

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20 minutes ago, Harsin said:

I think comparisons to top-end iPhone sales success are flawed.

 

Apple are a status symbol company, compared to their competitors to a certain extent.

 

MS are really, really not.

 

 

I don't dispute it but that isn't the argument that was being made (and it seems @Talk Show Host has interpreted @Alex W.'s post differently to me), the reference to mobile phones (and I did say Samsung too to illustrate) is to show that people are commonly used to multiple versions of ostensibly the same product being launched, I merely picked phones because it's as common a device as you're going to find. You can say the same about TV's, cars, washing machines or anything else. To pick up the argument, in all cases I'd be surprised if it's the top spec version which is the best seller. We just haven't had a console launch where multiple SKU's have been meaningfully different (just storage being differentiator, right?).

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12 minutes ago, Stanley said:

I think the X has 16gb and the S is rumoured to be 8 - I admit I have little understanding of how this would affect things though. 

 

It's 16 and 10 based on the rumours.  If the S has the same system reserve it leaves 13.5 and 7.5 respectively.  

 

MS have a very good idea about memory usage in current gen games. They put dedicated hardware in the OneX to track it.  Whether their assumptions on use hold true into next gen graphics, who knows. 

 

21 minutes ago, AI1 said:

If the Series S is more popular than the Series X (if the only difference is price and resolution then it might well do) and the Series S is created from leftovers on the factory floor from Series X production, then how does that work if the Series S becomes market leader? What yields are they expecting from Series X production and how do they manufacture more Series S's if no one is interested in the Series X?

 

"I'm confused!" /Partridge

 

 

It won't used binned XSX chips. It cheaper just to have dedicated wafers for the XSS'seses ~230mm² chip.

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1 minute ago, Stanley said:

Isn’t this exactly what they are doing? They’re offering the cheapest console on the market that comes with the “Netflix of games” - or if you want, the most powerful console on the market which also comes with it. So they can market themselves by being both “best” and “cheapest” - whereas the only way Sony have managed to do it is by making one without a disc drive, and therefore less of a choice or distinction. Everyone would rather have the disc version PS5 because there’s not enough of a saving in the digital version. 

 

That is not exactly what they are doing though because the cheapest console is also a weaker console. That, I think, has the potential to confuse the mainstream consumer. I guess we will see.

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Just now, Talk Show Host said:

 

That is not exactly what they are doing though because the cheapest console is also a weaker console. That, I think, has the potential to confuse the mainstream consumer. I guess we will see.

 

Weaker is subjective though, if the guess is correct and that these are 4k or 1080p consoles, it's not weaker in a way that some people will even detect.   Same gameplay, framerate, AI. These are the things which depending on your TV will mean the experience is exactly the same. Enough people (not me) say that they don't think 4k is worth it too.

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5 minutes ago, Wahwah* said:

 

 

I don't dispute it but that isn't the argument that was being made (and it seems @Talk Show Host has interpreted @Alex W.'s post differently to me), the reference to mobile phones (and I did say Samsung too to illustrate) is to show that people are commonly used to multiple versions of ostensibly the same product being launched, I merely picked phones because it's as common a device as you're going to find. You can say the same about TV's, cars, washing machines or anything else. To pick up the argument, in all cases I'd be surprised if it's the top spec version which is the best seller. We just haven't had a console launch where multiple SKU's have been meaningfully different (just storage being differentiator, right?).


it’s probably also worth noting that if they just go with one high powered console they “lose”. They’ll sell lots of units, but they’re not going to get significant broad market share.


they may as well try this, and we can all watch from the sidelines and laugh.

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I think the easiest way for them to pitch it to the masses will be around what TV you're plugging into:

 

HD TV = Series S

4k TV = Series X

 

That should be pretty clear to everyone (if indeed that's how it's going to be split power-wise).

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Just now, rgraves said:

I think the easiest way for them to pitch it will be around what TV you're plugging into:

 

HD TV = Series S

4k TV = Series X

 

That should be pretty clear to everyone (if indeed that's how it's going to be split power-wise).

 

Yeah, I'm interested to see if that's how they pitch it, and if everything else is exactly the same just how much the jump to 4k costs in raw ££££.

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2 minutes ago, Talk Show Host said:

 

That is not exactly what they are doing though because the cheapest console is also a weaker console. That, I think, has the potential to confuse the mainstream consumer. I guess we will see.

You said earlier that most customers aren’t even aware of what 4K is, or disc drives, before suggesting Sony are offering a clearer choice, one with a disc drive one without. So why is it confusing for customers with no understanding of 4K or disc drives when choosing an Xbox as opposed to a PlayStation? Are Xbox customers just inherently more stupid? 

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30 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

3 years and counting on my Pro controller. How much more time should I allow?


I’m not sure. But batteries don’t last forever and being able to replace them easily is good. 

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6 minutes ago, rgraves said:

I think the easiest way for them to pitch it to the masses will be around what TV you're plugging into:

 

HD TV = Series S

4k TV = Series X

 

That should be pretty clear to everyone (if indeed that's how it's going to be split power-wise).

if the message isn't as simple as that then it will struggle to succeed. That should be the message and it should be Series S does HDTV res 1080p and that is it whereas Series X can do 4k

 

Anything along woolly lines of this one provides a premium experience or this one is for those who are price conscious will be death to the message.

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34 minutes ago, AI1 said:

If the Series S is more popular than the Series X (if the only difference is price and resolution then it might well do) and the Series S is created from leftovers on the factory floor from Series X production, then how does that work if the Series S becomes market leader? What yields are they expecting from Series X production and how do they manufacture more Series S's if no one is interested in the Series X?

 

"I'm confused!" /Partridge

 

 

 

Also - how will that influence developers' decisions on supporting 4K or ray tracing (or whatever the next bleeding edge technology may be) on the Xbox platform?

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6 minutes ago, rgraves said:

I think the easiest way for them to pitch it to the masses will be around what TV you're plugging into:

 

HD TV = Series S

4k TV = Series X

 

That should be pretty clear to everyone (if indeed that's how it's going to be split power-wise).


Unfortunately, TV manufacturers seem to call 4K TVs whatever they want, including 4K UHD, UHD TV and Ultra 4K HD. 


But I think people will be able to figure it out. If you’re not bothered enough to know what 4K is, you should probably just buy the cheaper one. 

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