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Xbox Series X - power your dreams

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7 hours ago, Orbital2060 said:


Im not gonna answer any of your questions.

 

Every one of your posts in Xbox threads are patronising and reductive.


You took issue with me describing Microsoft as having bought studios as somehow disrespectful to the developers which at first glance seems a weird point to try and make. I asked you to clarify your thoughts with some perfectly legitimate questions and you’ve dissolved into a sweary mess.  

 

Maybe think your responses through rather than being incredibly unpleasant when others ask you to explain what it is you’re talking about. 

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Offensive Language Quoted From Orbital2060
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7 hours ago, Majora said:

Series X versions of the game will probably run at a higher res and framerate and have ray tracing and more visual effects and so on but it is logistically impossible for it to be taking full advantage of the new hardware in the same way an exclusive built from the ground up would. 

Same as PCs then.

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6 hours ago, Chadruharazzeb said:

 

Sony haven't announced that they aren't making PS5 exclusive games. 

I’m not sure how you think I’ve stated otherwise. 

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Quid Pass is great, but I bought mine for a Digital with no plans to upgrade. For £11pm we'll want to know how many big games are missing from its SX catalogue, and how many big games there are in the first place. If we were all members until '25 there'd be no question of value, because worst-case the quality dries up, but I'm dubious about how Microsoft have left it open while they can best afford to and least afford not to.

 

PS+ was really good once, and look how that's turned out. Going all-in with SX is to have faith that similar won't happen when our subs run out in '22, still very early in the next gen.

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I think everyone is forgetting the main reason you should all be buying on day one. 

 

Planet Coaster comes out for console this summer. It's one of the greatest games ever made. It's also crazy CPU hungry & bogs down with large parks on PC.

 

On SeriesX it's going to run like a dream compaired to the 1X.

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I hope that the logo on the front can be rotated if the console is laid horizontally like you could on PS2 back in the day.

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22 hours ago, JPL said:

I was just pointing out it’s not something that is exclusive to MS. Sony will be in exactly the same boat. Stanley’s already explained it a couple of posts up, so I won’t go over it again.

 

21 hours ago, Uzi said:


Not the same boat.

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2 minutes ago, KriessG said:

Not the same boat.

I was agreeing with Stanley that next gen games will take years to produce and any that will be launched in the first year or so will have been in development for far longer than the next gen specs have been known, so won’t be taking full advantage of the generational leap.

 

I wasn’t saying that all PS5 games will be playable on PS4.

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Yeah it doesn't really matter if PS4 can play them or not, anything that launches in the first 12 months was probably a PS4 game in initial design.

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To me it seems that MS have acknowledged this and are willing to make all the first wave of next gen games, however cut down, available on current consoles. At least until any titles that have been developed with the next gen in mind from inception start to appear. It's a really good thing for consumers, even if it means they could end up shooting themselves in the foot with initial Series X sales.

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I find most DF content incredibly dull these days but enjoyed this. Leadbetter and wothisname take differing views on the matter and they provide some nice examples of games which wouldn't have worked as 360/Xbox One crossgen and features the devs wanted to implement this gen but couldn't.

 

 

Interestingly, Leadbetter is the one who thinks it's a good thing, before going on to talk about his Jaguar CPU PC being CPU bound in Windows.:lol:

 

I think it's going to be very interesting to see how things go this gen, and to see where the majority of gamers go. Game Pass is great and so is the idea that you don't need to upgrade day one to play first party titles. But on the other hand, if PS5 starts fresh and is able to forget about the limitations of the base PS4, we might get better games. And if you're only going to buy one console for the time being, if you can play everything on Series X on you One S/X, it makes a bit more sense to keep that and buy a PS5 to play exclusives.

 

Of course, for the majority, it'll probably boil down to what it always has - price and what you owned last gen. But at this point I think there's a good chance I will buy one of them at launch but honestly don't know whether I'm going to go PS5 or Series X.

 

 

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20 minutes ago, Dudley said:

Yeah it doesn't really matter if PS4 can play them or not, anything that launches in the first 12 months was probably a PS4 game in initial design.

 

8 minutes ago, JPL said:

To me it seems that MS have acknowledged this and are willing to make all the first wave of next gen games, however cut down, available on current consoles. At least until any titles that have been developed with the next gen in mind from inception start to appear. It's a really good thing for consumers, even if it means they could end up shooting themselves in the foot with initial Series X sales.

 

Over the past few generations, within the first 12 - 24 months how many games were actually fundamentally different to the gen before? How many had innovative game play / AI / Other not possible on the previous gen? I'd be willing to guess the answer will be virtually none. All you really get for the first while is prettier graphics. 

 

Even if Microsoft didn't take this approach, all 3rd party devs would be doing something similar with a 1X / SX PS4 / PS5 versions of their games, so this just makes it simpler.

 

It reminds me of the start of this gen. I bought Battlefield 4 for my 360 for £45. 3 months later the Xbox One came out and I had to spend another £55 to get Battlefield 4 for that machine. It was the same game, just with better performance & graphics. 

 

This approach saves that extra cash.

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Digital Foundry pointed out a pertinent problem with cross gen stuff. At the planning stage there are features that will be possible on the Series X that would not be possible on the One. 
 

So while the same game may well run on both, it may well not be the complete game you’d have got if it was just next-gen. Apparently Horizon was going to have flight, but the devs found it just didn’t work on PS4 for various reasons. What if similar features are possible on Series X but not One? They just wouldn’t make the cut.

 

I think Shadows of Mordor addressed this by simply leaving out features from last-gen consoles. That isn’t possible on Series X/One that I can see as cross-gen games last-gen were developed separately for their specific console, often by different teams. This MS statement seems to be saying the exact same game will service all consoles.

 

Works on PC I guess but not what new console owners are used to.

 

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6 minutes ago, Mr Tony said:

 

 

Over the past few generations, within the first 12 - 24 months how many games were actually fundamentally different to the gen before? How many had innovative game play / AI / Other not possible on the previous gen? I'd be willing to guess the answer will be virtually none. All you really get for the first while is prettier graphics. 

 

Digital Foundry point out Ryse: Son of Rome and Dead Rising 3.


Forza Horizon 2 came out within a year, IIRC, and had a completely different version on Xbox 360. Shadow of Mordor was within a year as well.

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Just now, HarryBizzle said:

 

Digital Foundry point out Ryse: Son of Rome and Dead Rising 3.


Forza Horizon 2 came out within a year, IIRC, and had a completely different version on Xbox One.

 

Ryse: Son of Rome started developement as a 360 title. Dead Rising 3 didn't seem all that different from 1 or 2 (gameplay wise) to me. 

 

FH2 was a totally different game (I also think the 360 version was the better of the two). 

 

But look at most 3rd party games, Titanfall 1 and others. They were the same game on both gens for a good 12-18 months into the life of the machines.

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5 minutes ago, Mr Tony said:

 

Ryse: Son of Rome started developement as a 360 title. Dead Rising 3 didn't seem all that different from 1 or 2 (gameplay wise) to me. 

 

FH2 was a totally different game (I also think the 360 version was the better of the two). 

 

But look at most 3rd party games, Titanfall 1 and others. They were the same game on both gens for a good 12-18 months into the life of the machines.

 

Leadbetter doesn't see how it could have been done on 360 without completely gutting it. Dead Rising 3 had much bigger environments and far more Zombies.

 

Whether you regard that as "all that different" or not doesn't really change that the developers could not have made the same game had they been tied to older hardware.

 

They even mention that Guerilla wanted to put flight into Horizon but couldn't because the storage was too slow. That's something they can implement day one on PS5, but only if they're not tied to old hardware.

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9 minutes ago, HarryBizzle said:

 

Leadbetter doesn't see how it could have been done on 360 without completely gutting it. Dead Rising 3 had much bigger environments and far more Zombies.

 

Whether you regard that as "all that different" or not doesn't really change that the developers could not have made the same game had they been tied to older hardware.

 

They even mention that Guerilla wanted to put flight into Horizon but couldn't because the storage was too slow. That's something they can implement day one on PS5, but only if they're not tied to old hardware.

 

So far then, that's 1 game which apparently couldn't be done one previous gen (And it wasn't exactly anything special anyway).

 

Horizon Zero Dawn wasn't a launch title. It came out in 2017 after a 5 year dev cycle. So from day 1 it was in dev for PS4, with PS4 specs known. It's really a moot point as this is all talking for games for the first year or two.

 

Most games coming in the first 12-24 months of a console will have been developed with the previous gen in mind, purely due to the fact that the final specs of the next gen were not known / finalised when the dev cycle was started.

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Mr Tony said:

 

So far then, that's 1 game which apparently couldn't be done one previous gen (And it wasn't exactly anything special anyway).

 

Horizon Zero Dawn wasn't a launch title. It came out in 2017 after a 5 year dev cycle. So from day 1 it was in dev for PS4, with PS4 specs known. It's really a moot point as this is all talking for games for the first year or two.

 

Most games coming in the first 12-24 months of a console will have been developed with the previous gen in mind, purely due to the fact that the final specs of the next gen were not known / finalised when the dev cycle was started.

 

Again, you dismissing a game because you don't think it was good doesn't change the fact that it would have been held back by the previous generation. I'm not sure which of the games you've completely dismissed to arrive at only one game, either. Next time, please specify that only games which Mr Tony considers to be good and differences he deems significant count. It will save having to move the goalposts later on.

 

My point with Horizon is that its sequel will probably be coming in the next 12-24 months and if they intend to make it cross platform, then that's an example of a feature which is only possible if PS5 only.

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Indeed, because there were no games that involved leaving the ground before PS5.

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5 minutes ago, Dudley said:

Indeed, because there were no games that involved leaving the ground before PS5.

 

Great zinger, but have you actually kept up with the thread? This is a feature which Guerilla themselves have said they considered but couldn't implement because the storage on the PS4 couldn't keep up.

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16 minutes ago, HarryBizzle said:

 

Again, you dismissing a game because you don't think it was good doesn't change the fact that it would have been held back by the previous generation. I'm not sure which of the games you've completely dismissed to arrive at only one game, either. Next time, please specify that only games which Mr Tony considers to be good and differences he deems significant count. It will save having to move the goalposts later on.

 

My point with Horizon is that its sequel will probably be coming in the next 12-24 months and if they intend to make it cross platform, then that's an example of a feature which is only possible if PS5 only.

 

My point was how many games over previous gen launches were fundamentally different from the gen before. The answer is hardly any.

 

Most developers would release the same game on both platforms anyway, so having it all in one release that a customer only has to buy once is a better option.

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The 360 version of Titanfall was made/ported by a different developer right? 

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Forza Horizon 2 was actually pretty incredible on the Xbox 360, 720p native @ 30fps and it had the same size map as the Xbox One version, but if I recall correctly it didn't have the cross country events and there were large un-driveable areas due to ram constraints on the 360.

 

But driving games can scale well, they aren't as CPU intensive for thing's like AI where it's typically scripted on rails stuff, the 360 version was missing the drivatars but it's a pretty huge achievement technically and was probably the best Forza Horizon game to date.

 

Infact due to the poor CPU's this entire gen for both PS4 and Xbox One were little more than shinier versions of last gen games, it's why PC Gaming has had such a resurgence as you could put a new GPU in an old system and suddenly start playing most new games at 1080p 60hz with ultra settings, RAM was the most significant change and is the only reason why something like Fortnite couldn't be done on a 360/PS3, they absolutely have GPU's capable enough to deliver Fortnite at 720p native.

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2 minutes ago, bear said:

The 360 version of Titanfall was made/ported by a different developer right? 

 

Yeah, it was. BluePoint

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6 minutes ago, Mr Tony said:

 

My point was how many games over previous gen launches were fundamentally different from the gen before. The answer is hardly any.

 

How many games are fundamentally different from the gen before anyway? Is RDR2 a fundamentally different game than GTA5? Is it fundamentally different from GTA3? 

 

No. But incremental change is what drives the industry forward and gets us from GTA3 to RDR2. Being tied to ancient hardware for another two years isn't going to help.

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2 minutes ago, HarryBizzle said:

 

Being tied to ancient hardware for another two years isn't going to help.

 

But that's what happens anyway. That's what happened in previous gens. That's my point. Most games released in that window either started development on the previous gen, or were developed with the previous gen being included in the releases. All Microsoft is doing are making their games run on both platforms from a single release. Rather than doing two releases of each game. 

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Microsoft can't win it seems.

 

If they'd said you need to buy a different versions of games you already bought on the One when you upgrade to the Series X people would be complaining.

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