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3 hours ago, Jamie John said:

 

I think I'm right in saying that you can build a PC nowadays for £500 that will run everything you can throw at it in ultra settings, so I think they'll be fairly comparable.

 


oh, that wasn’t a joke?

No, you’ll spend £150 on an equivalent processor, £300 on a console equivalent graphics card, £70 on an ssd, £120 on memory. And you’ll still not have the raytracing, the box size, or a working implementation of HDR. And it won’t be running anything at ultra settings (though that’s partly because ultra settings on PC are always for the loons).

 

its quite unlikely that you’ll be able to mix and match a Scarlett or PS5 performance level in a PC for the launch price in the first couple of years. It’s quite likely you’ll be able to considerably beat the level of performance, but you’ll be playing with diminishing returns. The real problem will be for those of us with 4 core gaming PCs from 2016, who have to start thinking about upgrading because suddenly consoles will have a decent CPU and games might start being designed accordingly.

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Hmm, yeah, I'm not sure where I got that impression from. Talking out my arse, clearly. Maybe it was a console that would match the performance of the PS4 or XB1 for £500, but who knows.

 

I guess, then, if I don't want to miss out on any console exclusives I'll have to pick up both consoles at some point and leave the PC idea. I'll miss out on PC exclusives, but a lot of those end up being ported over to consoles anyway, thinking of the ones this gen that I've been interested in - FAR Lone Sails, Divinity, Disco Elysium, Sunless Skies, to name but a few; all of them have been, or will be, ported.

 

I suppose it's just a case of waiting and seeing which console has the best exclusives to determine which one I get first, which is what I thought would be the case in the first place :rolleyes:

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Any PC built in the past year or two is already better than the upcoming consoles. At worst you would need a new video card. If you are new to PC's, and would be starting from scratch, wait to see what the consoles offer first since you seem to fond of exclusives.

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3 hours ago, Mr. Gerbik said:

Overall PC is the best choice *if* money, space, and expertise aren't an issue. You get:

 

- ALL the Xbox exclusives

- a lot of the PlayStation exclusives (see games like NioH, Death Stranding, SF5)

- ALL the PC exclusives of course

- backwards compatibility with all older PC games

- backwards compatibility with all other older platforms :P

- use whichever controller you prefer

- better performance

 

But the hardware is expensive and not everyone likes the DIY aspect. It's a matter of preference

 

And VR ready :P

 

Im still happy with 1080p and 60fps so haven't bought into 4K gaming yet so if you're not fussed with 4K then PC may not be overly expensive Vs a console because you get so much more benefits.  If convenience is high on your priority list then maybe a Scarlett is the better choice.

 

   

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While MS may be bringing all their exclusives to PC most of the games released on PC this gen  have been tainted by a ton of problems that took months if not years to fix due to their teams being relatively new to PC development and the scalability issues of infinite hardware configurations . So there's the added bonus of lots of extra fannying around trying to get them working well. Also playing on PC and discussing these issues makes your forum posts duller than a 40W lightbulb.

 

:P

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9 hours ago, Revival said:

There's fifteen studios now, There should be more exclusives next gen than ever.

 

Should have thought there were quite a few reasons to choose a Scarlett over a PC...

 

-Smaller form factor

-Since it's designed by the Surface team the build quality should be top drawer and hopefully silent when running, No noisy fans

-Backwards compatibility

-Lower cost of entry, Why pay another £300-400 on top to brute force the same performance?

-Optimised games

-Proper HDR implementation

-Xbox Rewards

-Games with Gold

-Game Pass for console has different and more games than the PC variant

-You don't have to fanny around with the Win10 store and edit files to get games to run properly

 

 

Maybe Jamie was talking about Xbox games exclusive to the console and not playable on a PC, but yeah there are 15 studios associated with XGS now.

 

xbox-game-studios-e3-2019.jpg.26af527c3dec9c0ef8b6e5f919a9f124.jpg

 

Whether any of those studios make games you want to play are a different question, but there shouldnt be a shortage of 'exclusive' games on the xbox. Although I wouldnt be surprised if one of the things that will change over the next few years is the ability to play (some) XGS games on a Playstation, and vice versa. Gears 6 on PS5, and Horizon Zero Dawn 2 on Scarlett? Why not.

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6 hours ago, Orbital2060 said:

 

Maybe Jamie was talking about Xbox games exclusive to the console and not playable on a PC, but yeah there are 15 studios associated with XGS now.

 

xbox-game-studios-e3-2019.jpg.26af527c3dec9c0ef8b6e5f919a9f124.jpg

 

Whether any of those studios make games you want to play are a different question, but there shouldnt be a shortage of 'exclusive' games on the xbox. Although I wouldnt be surprised if one of the things that will change over the next few years is the ability to play (some) XGS games on a Playstation, and vice versa. Gears 6 on PS5, and Horizon Zero Dawn 2 on Scarlett? Why not.

 

Just out of interest what exclusive Xbox one games are not on PC ?  Only one I can think of is Halo 5

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6 hours ago, Boozy The Clown said:

While MS may be bringing all their exclusives to PC most of the games released on PC this gen  have been tainted by a ton of problems that took months if not years to fix due to their teams being relatively new to PC development and the scalability issues of infinite hardware configurations . So there's the added bonus of lots of extra fannying around trying to get them working well. Also playing on PC and discussing these issues makes your forum posts duller than a 40W lightbulb.

 

:P

 

Is not as bad as you make out.  What problems and what games?  

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A console manufacturer can afford to take a loss on the hardware and recoup it on games and licensing (and the hardware itself in a few years, one they’ve managed to make it cheaper), so they’re always going to have an edge over the PC in terms of price - nobody’s going to sell you PC components at a loss. 

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9 hours ago, yashiro said:

Any PC built in the past year or two is already better than the upcoming consoles. At worst you would need a new video card. If you are new to PC's, and would be starting from scratch, wait to see what the consoles offer first since you seem to fond of exclusives.

 

Do you mean any PC built with components released in the last two years is going to be better?

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1 hour ago, simms said:

 

Just out of interest what exclusive Xbox one games are not on PC ?  Only one I can think of is Halo 5

 

Forza 5 and 6. (Pc has a cut down "test" version of 6). Forza Horizon 2.

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Forza 7 too.  Horizon 3 was a bug ridden mess with dodgy performance issues. The MCC/Reach thread has enough people complaining about issues for this still to be considered a PC launch day problem although the "start" button issue made me lol and consider whether user error shouldn't be ruled out when it comes to getting your game working on the best hardware and the volume of complaining every game receives at launch due to tech issues.

 

Maybe xbox exclusives are getting better optimisation on PC these days, I'm not sure if Gears 5 had the same level of issues. Possibly dev tools have improved in the last few years and the devs seem to share a lot of tech across studios. Despite PC users assurances that things are much better these days every major release seems to have enough folks complaining about games at launch for those watching from consoleville to be like like nahhhhhhh.

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1 hour ago, Jamie John said:

 

Do you mean any PC built with components released in the last two years is going to be better?

 

This isn't true due to the consoles' storage choice.  How many games this matters for is an interesting question.  Are launch titles and 3rd party titles going to be be dependant on streaming from ultrafast SSDs or can PC's expandable memory bridge the gap?  Even PCIe 4.0 NMVe drives will need new ways for Windows to utilise the hardware if rumours are to be believed.

 

We also won't know for months how the consoles' ray tracing hardware compares to RTX.  

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Horizon 3 was a mess on PC for me. In between lacking HDR, the store often deciding the whole thing needed to be downloaded again and the poor performance, I honestly preferred to play it on an Xbox One S than on my PC. 
 

I really can’t be bothered with tinkering and fiddling with games anymore so just packed PC gaming in completely. 

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1 hour ago, Boozy The Clown said:

Forza 7 too.  Horizon 3 was a bug ridden mess with dodgy performance issues. The MCC/Reach thread has enough people complaining about issues for this still to be considered a PC launch day problem although the "start" button issue made me lol and consider whether user error shouldn't be ruled out when it comes to getting your game working on the best hardware and the volume of complaining every game receives at launch due to tech issues.

 

Maybe xbox exclusives are getting better optimisation on PC these days, I'm not sure if Gears 5 had the same level of issues. Possibly dev tools have improved in the last few years and the devs seem to share a lot of tech across studios. Despite PC users assurances that things are much better these days every major release seems to have enough folks complaining about games at launch for those watching from consoleville to be like like nahhhhhhh.

 

Earlier iterations of the Forza game series aside does not look like the PC is missing much.  I mean Forza 1 & 2 are not going to be missed by many these days.  Most games do not have issues then like you said :P.  I'll take what you say about PC stuff with caution, you concede you don't care about or care to understand PC stuff.

 

To be fair MCC had loads of issues on launch on the Xbox one from what I remember so I can see these issues being ironed out the same way.  Every PC game ever released, especially these days have people shouting about the problems on the internet which will make you believe that PC gamers don't play games but just fiddle with files and patches, even console games have issues but there you're at the mercy of the developer to fix. I'm not a fan of tinkering myself so 95% of the time I just click and play :D.

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2 hours ago, Boozy The Clown said:

Forza 7 too. 

 

Forza 7 is on PC.

 

1 hour ago, HarryBizzle said:

Horizon 3 was a mess on PC for me. In between lacking HDR, the store often deciding the whole thing needed to be downloaded again and the poor performance, I honestly preferred to play it on an Xbox One S than on my PC. 
 

I really can’t be bothered with tinkering and fiddling with games anymore so just packed PC gaming in completely. 

 

The store is awful, the interface is shoddy, it fails a lot, you can't backup stuff, it actually hides the install folders from windows explorer in a way you can't even override properly as admin.

 

The only things I've paid money for on there are the cross play versions of Forza H3,H4 and 7 and I'm very much considering getting disks for those since I don't play them on PC much.

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15 hours ago, petrolgirls said:

 

I was wondering about this too - if developers use the full i/o bandwidth available to them on PS5 and Scorpio, those games may not readily port to PC, or would at least have a fast SSD requirement in the spec list.

 

I can imainge the only people to use the full i/o bandwidth would be Sony 1st Party games and even then how many need that to stream level in at speed.   The rest will either code to the lowest common denominator or structure their games to scale.   On the simplest level you'll be waiting a 30 seconds for a level to load rather than 2 seconds.  How open world streaming of assets will be handled is another matter.  Just going to have to continue to be creative on the tech front. 

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15 hours ago, yashiro said:

Any PC built in the past year or two is already better than the upcoming consoles. At worst you would need a new video card. If you are new to PC's, and would be starting from scratch, wait to see what the consoles offer first since you seem to fond of exclusives.

This, is simply NOT true. The consoles are reportedly going to have 8core/16 thread cpus. To match that, you will need that.   Not every system has that, or close. Now at launch , devs wont use it, but they will as they get to grips with it.

 

As we have seen with RDR2, it needs a 6 core cpu, or a 4c8t(with high clock speed) to get 60+ constantly, this is because it was designed to scale across the 6 cores aavilable on the current consoles.

 

Yes it might sound harsh, but really, PC requirements are going up in the next 2 years, and will require that kind of cpu to actually deliver the game, as you cant put that elsewhere as the cpu runs game logic.

 

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On 04/12/2019 at 18:49, Ferine said:

If Lockhart's only differences are a lack of disc drive, a significantly weaker GPU and a bit less RAM – congruent with the lower target resolution – then I can kind of see the case for it. If it compromises on fundamental capabilities of Anaconda, like hardware raytracing or the CPU, then that's just going to be a pain in the arse for the entire generation.

 

Unfortunately the former doesn't seem like it would result in enough of a cost saving to justify its existence.

 

I'm hoping it's basically an Xbox Scarlett for people who don't have a 4K TV and want to play the same games at 1080 without wasting money on hardware they won't use.

 

20 hours ago, Jamie John said:

 

I think I'm right in saying that you can build a PC nowadays for £500 that will run everything you can throw at it in ultra settings, so I think they'll be fairly comparable.

 

 

A top end gaming PC would cost thousands of pounds and won't run RDR2 at 4K60 on Ultra.

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44 minutes ago, Broker said:

A top end gaming PC would cost thousands of pounds and won't run RDR2 at 4K60 on Ultra.

 

lolwut? Why not?

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16 hours ago, Boozy The Clown said:

While MS may be bringing all their exclusives to PC most of the games released on PC this gen  have been tainted by a ton of problems that took months if not years to fix due to their teams being relatively new to PC development and the scalability issues of infinite hardware configurations . So there's the added bonus of lots of extra fannying around trying to get them working well. Also playing on PC and discussing these issues makes your forum posts duller than a 40W lightbulb.

 

:P

I can't argue with this. I'm trying to play Dragon Age Inquisition on PC. It's a fucking nightmare to get working properly! I can't use a pad because the game doesn't like bluetooth, and I have to let the cutscenes run at 30fps else they run at stupid speeds (like watching video on fast forward).

 

PC gaming, eh? :lol:

 

I love the power of my PC. But the next gen of consoles can't come soon enough for me. 

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59 minutes ago, SeanR said:

lolwut? Why not?

Because the PC code is fucked. So many bugs. 

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7 hours ago, rafaqat said:

 

I can imainge the only people to use the full i/o bandwidth would be Sony 1st Party games and even then how many need that to stream level in at speed.   The rest will either code to the lowest common denominator or structure their games to scale.   On the simplest level you'll be waiting a 30 seconds for a level to load rather than 2 seconds.  How open world streaming of assets will be handled is another matter.  Just going to have to continue to be creative on the tech front. 

 

I think you're right that Sony will push this initially - they've got nothing to lose doing so - but I can see big 3rd party developers of openworld titles like Ubi and Rockstar utilising much faster i/o fairly early on too. The potential is much more than just faster loading levels, it could fundamentally change how you approach game design, at least in some respects, and it won't easily scale back to 5200rpm HDD's either - I just don't see how it can. 

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8 hours ago, SeanR said:

 

lolwut? Why not?


Because the arcane requirements of Rockstar’s engine don’t seem to produce consistent results even across incredibly expensive sets of hardware. The top settings require intensely expensive components and people seem to get massively different results even with some similar configurations.

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On 06/12/2019 at 23:23, yashiro said:

Any PC built in the past year or two is already better than the upcoming consoles. At worst you would need a new video card. If you are new to PC's, and would be starting from scratch, wait to see what the consoles offer first since you seem to fond of exclusives.

 

Think "better" is relative though to what you want. 

 

I'm just glad the MS are embracing the PC. For the record I've been running the PC and Xbox games in parallel for the past year or so - certainly since MS started the initiative of porting Xbox games over to the platform at the same time as Xbox consoles. I can categorically state I have never had any performance issues all the experiences have been better on my PC - mostly running at 1080p@60fps. This is on what I would say a fairly modest PC - original generation Ryzen 5, 16GB RAM and an ageing Nvidia GTX970 - my machine build is over 2 years old. The GPU over 4.

 

So despite the FUD being spread on here about PC releases being a buggy mess. The reality for many is they aren't. Consoles also get multiple GB day one patches these days - they are effectively a PC in a different shaped box. Difference is all Xboxes are known spec hardware. Although we are getting multiple devices on console hardware anyway (S. X. Scarlett etc). The software libraries they all run on (Direct X IIRC) are standard though between PC and Xbox and this is what makes everything work.

 

There is simply little difference to choose from between Xbox and a PC these days and going forward. We can only gain as gamers because we get more ways to play, more people can join in to play no matter what their chosen device. The PC will *always* be technically superior to a console as its an user upgradable platform and it does more things along with playing games.

 

Personally for me I have a PC for doing work on which is also more than capable of running Xbox content well - my specs will probably exceed that of the next gen of Xbox hardware (OK may have to upgrade my GPU at some point). I get the same (or better) experience than playing on an Xbox console. This is why I won't be buying any more specific Xbox branded hardware because for me it is redundant. Indeed I no longer have any Xbox consoles now the X went a few weeks back as it was simply gathering dust. However still get to use the Xbox software and services. Whether that be in future through streaming on a mobile device, via a steaming based TV app or via the PC.

 

Everyone wins. More choice of where and how you want to play.  MS get more money to make more great content. So lets not get bogged down in the details... PC and Xbox we are all the same it is one service.... just getting to the content in different ways.

 

Lets face it. The NG Xbox isn't hardware. It is a platform. How you get to the platform, the services and games is upto you. Never has their been so much choice.

 

The Times They Are A Changin'. For the greater good of the Xbox brand. Embrace and enjoy

 

 

 

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You’ll likely need to upgrade that Ryzen CPU though. The consoles are going to have 8 cores/16 threads...

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22 hours ago, SeanR said:

 

lolwut? Why not?

DF did a video explaining why, basically, they have options that are designed for the future, and thats what the ultra settings are. People just "expect" they can run things on ultra. Back in the day it was common to have settings that wouldnt run at the time, look at crysis!

 

The game is optimised, for the Xbox X, its very well optimised. If you take those settings, you can add a few embellishments that make it look better still, and get it to run at 4k60, but that does need a 2080ti

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