Football Thread 2018/19

[Ork1927]

10 minutes ago, Dudley said:

 

For what it's worth they've confirmed this morning the club did not supply the plane.

 

Just saw that - the amount of misinformation is very high.

 

The saddest thing about all this is it feels like if he'd signed a day earlier or we'd been playing in the cup this weekend (and therefore he might not have been able to be away Monday), etc it wouldn't have happened.

[McCoy]

8 hours ago, deerokus said:

It seems to me very unlikely any insurers will cover it - I don't know if football player insurance is different but normal life insurance policies typically exclude deaths caused flying on non-commercial or licenced chartered flights. 

 

This would appear to have been just some guy's plane. What Cardiff were thinking putting him on such a thing is beyond me. 

 

You may be right, but I'd wager that football Clubs will have a bit more in place than simply a normal life insurance policy.  Given the amount of travel that players have to do professionally, and how much they have to do personally, you'd have to imagine football players are insured up to their eyeballs for all sorts of issues. 

[The Fox]

4 hours ago, Chewylegs said:

It's not really the same line of thought though is it? Big dick jokes are a stereotype and a nonsense, where as surely describing someones look, is a bit different. I'd say that's a terrible comparison Fox.

 

How about this for example. You're asked to write up a piece on say Patrick Viera who has literally just ran the show in midfield and bossed it. He's used his physical presence to win everything. Are we honestly having to sit there and say that we must remove words that would be obvious to use because in the past some people have used them in an offensive way? Are you saying Graeme Sounds and Jamie Redknapp in the instances in the report are knowingly being offensive? I'm just thinking surely for someone like Pogba this is appropriate words where as if you used it for say Deli Alli then you could say it is out of context?? I really don't know.

 

How about Adebayo Akinfenwa, who actually runs a clothing line called Beast Mode On, do you think he is offended by reports using terms such as strong, physical or even beast in this instance?

 

"Beast" is pretty clearly dehumanising language and, like the dick jokes, even though it's normally intended as a compliment, it really isn't. It isn't a terrible comparison at all. People basically never use it to describe white players, but you see people using it all the time for powerful black guys like Vieira or Yaya.

 

As for praising a black player's physicality, of course it's fine where appropriate and relevant. I never said otherwise; I specifically mentioned people praising the physicality of black players they clearly know nothing about. They've probably never really seen them play, but because they have to write something, their brain just seems to default to "pace and power" and they think they're being complimentary.

 

As for Akinfenwa, if he wants to call himself Beast and use it as marketing, that's his prerogative. Doesn't mean it's ok for white people to say it in general.

[Gotters]

35 minutes ago, McCoy said:

 

You may be right, but I'd wager that football Clubs will have a bit more in place than simply a normal life insurance policy.  Given the amount of travel that players have to do professionally, and how much they have to do personally, you'd have to imagine football players are insured up to their eyeballs for all sorts of issues. 

 

It’s almost a throwaway line in the Times today and attributed to an ‘insurance expert’ but they said its very unlikely Cardiff will recoup the fee from insurance, but offered no more info as to why.

[kiroquai]

Apparently Sala sent his family a WhatsApp voice message saying he was scared and that the plane looked like it was falling apart.

 

Ugh. What an awful situation.

[Fry Crayola]

As a side note, former World's Strongest Man Eddie Hall is known as The Beast, but that's a different kettle of fish. The man's a human hydraulic press.

 

Anyway, back to football and Akinfenwa, there's a recognisable difference between someone adopting it as a nickname or personal brand, and having it used by others as a shorthand for "powerful, athletic black man". Most importantly, the issue is of subconscious usage. The pool and frequency of terms used for black players differs from those of white, not because writers have an agenda, but because things get very easily embedded in general discourse. When we write, we don't agonise over every word, we use stock phrases, idioms and adjectives. We focus on the overall argument more than the individual words. If there's a slant towards certain terms being used for certain ethnicities, what happens is this gets reinforced by general usage.

 

We can then look at the overall picture and ask if the repeated language might present a problem, and consciously address it in the future. That doesn't change just because Akinfenwa sells a T-shirt with Beast Mode On written on it.

[Azrael]

Thinking about whenever I've used the term "beast" to described a player - usually when playing FIFA - it's mainly been in regards to black players*. Never seen it as a racial thing but definitely can see the connotations. Though maybe it's more a racist against whites thing because they can never be cool enough for such a term. I've always thought the term was for a big physical player that's ripped to fuck and can't really think of any white players that fit that mould - Other than Ibra perhaps. 

 

 

*Other than Dirk Kuyt but that was mainly as in "sexy beast". 

[Chewylegs]

1 hour ago, The Fox said:

 

"Beast" is pretty clearly dehumanising language and, like the dick jokes, even though it's normally intended as a compliment, it really isn't. It isn't a terrible comparison at all. People basically never use it to describe white players, but you see people using it all the time for powerful black guys like Vieira or Yaya.

 

As for praising a black player's physicality, of course it's fine where appropriate and relevant. I never said otherwise; I specifically mentioned people praising the physicality of black players they clearly know nothing about. They've probably never really seen them play, but because they have to write something, their brain just seems to default to "pace and power" and they think they're being complimentary.

 

As for Akinfenwa, if he wants to call himself Beast and use it as marketing, that's his prerogative. Doesn't mean it's ok for white people to say it in general.

I was focusing more on the pace, power, physicality part of it the article, not the 'beast' part of it. Sorry should have made that clear.

 

I did have his conversation on here before though about the word beast and I didn't realise it was a word that was used only for black players....I literally have never seen it that way. 

 

Again not seen pace and power used by a writer to describe a player that doesn't have those attributes, or I might not have picked up on it.

[Chewylegs]

1 hour ago, Fry Crayola said:

As a side note, former World's Strongest Man Eddie Hall is known as The Beast, but that's a different kettle of fish. The man's a human hydraulic press.

 

Anyway, back to football and Akinfenwa, there's a recognisable difference between someone adopting it as a nickname or personal brand, and having it used by others as a shorthand for "powerful, athletic black man". Most importantly, the issue is of subconscious usage. The pool and frequency of terms used for black players differs from those of white, not because writers have an agenda, but because things get very easily embedded in general discourse. When we write, we don't agonise over every word, we use stock phrases, idioms and adjectives. We focus on the overall argument more than the individual words. If there's a slant towards certain terms being used for certain ethnicities, what happens is this gets reinforced by general usage.

 

We can then look at the overall picture and ask if the repeated language might present a problem, and consciously address it in the future. That doesn't change just because Akinfenwa sells a T-shirt with Beast Mode On written on it.

This makes a lot of sense.

[Fry Crayola]

Also consider it this way - a player can have strength, pace and power in every recorded case, but if the usage is skewed such that black players have their physical attributes referred to more often than their technical, then that's an example of the unconscious bias. With wide use, it paints a picture that black players' main gift to the game is physicality, rather than playing ability.

[Chewylegs]

2 hours ago, The Fox said:

As for praising a black player's physicality, of course it's fine where appropriate and relevant.

That's what I would think too, but that article is basically saying different.

[Chewylegs]

4 hours ago, Fry Crayola said:

Also consider it this way - a player can have strength, pace and power in every recorded case, but if the usage is skewed such that black players have their physical attributes referred to more often than their technical, then that's an example of the unconscious bias. With wide use, it paints a picture that black players' main gift to the game is physicality, rather than playing ability.

Reminds me of poor old Peter Crouch and the tendancies to say he's good in the air when in reality he's very very tall so means he barely has to jump to score headed goals but hes technically very good with the ball at his feet.

[Timmo]

3 hours ago, Chewylegs said:

Reminds me of poor old Peter Crouch and the tendancies to say he's good in the air when in reality he's shit at heading but technically good with the ball at his feet.

 

He's scored more headers than any other Premier League player, hardly shit.

[Oh Danny Boy]

Never seen ‘Beast’ used in a racial sense, always more towards physically imposing and aggressive players. A player who is able to dominate the opposition through pure physical presence and athleticism, I used to call Andy Carroll a beast back in his Liverpool days as when he was on form, such as his FA cup final cameo, he was unplayable for just that reason.

[Guest]

Yeah, Beast is just any big strong person. I've certainly used it for Ibra, Vidic, and Stam. More recently Shakiri. 

[Chewylegs]

1 hour ago, Timmo said:

 

He's scored more headers than any other Premier League player, hardly shit.

I stand corrected....post corrected.

[Ork1927]

FFS - Sky Sports News playing the message Sala sent his mates while flying which everyone has been reporting as if he was terrified for his life when the tone is clearly him just joking about (even though it turned out to be tragically correct).

 

No idea why they need to play it anyway.

 

Sadly they are now talking about abandoning the search altogether. Surely they have to keep trying until they find some evidence of something? Appreciate the size/scale of the area to cover, but perhaps the Frenxh and UK governments could throw some more resources at it?

[nakamura]

Awful news. Feel quite sick reading it. 

[wev]

14 minutes ago, Ork1927 said:

FFS - Sky Sports News playing the message Sala sent his mates while flying which everyone has been reporting as if he was terrified for his life when the tone is clearly him just joking about (even though it turned out to be tragically correct).

 

No idea why they need to play it anyway.

 

Sadly they are now talking about abandoning the search altogether. Surely they have to keep trying until they find some evidence of something? Appreciate the size/scale of the area to cover, but perhaps the Frenxh and UK governments could throw some more resources at it?

Don't think it's just the size/scale of the area, they had said they were operating under the hope that the people on the plane had managed to use the life raft that was onboard. That's probably a bigger area than if they weren't successful in using it. They have said they can't see anyone surviving more than a few hours if theyre actually in the water

[Marlowe]

Jesse Lingard's article on Players' Tribune is well worth a read:

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/jesse-lingard-i-promise-you-never-read-a-story-like-this-mate

 

That Roma photo. 

[Naysonymous]

1 hour ago, Marlowe said:

That Roma photo. 

 

Reminds me of the Fellaini Kompany Valbuena photo. 

 

 

[the_debaser]

That phone conversation on sky sports news with the Cardiff player in the air is pretty haunting. 

[deerokus]

Kilmarnock beat Rangers thanks to a goal from Rangers-bound Jones, moving them into second a point off the top. Jones had been gloating about his move to Rangers the other day, annoying his own fans. At least Defoe scored for Rangers though haha 

 

Kilmarnock's season is absolutely staggering stuff. Scottish football is wonderful at the moment. 

[the_debaser]

Burke scored twice too to shut up some of the whingers. Weah too. He could be an awesome talent. 

[deerokus]

Yeah, those two signings look extremely good, exactly what we needed and should stand us in good stead against the title foes of Kilmarnock. 

[neoELITE]

2 hours ago, Marlowe said:

Jesse Lingard's article on Players' Tribune is well worth a read:

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/jesse-lingard-i-promise-you-never-read-a-story-like-this-mate

 

That Roma photo. 

 

They could have got him a smaller kit FFS.

 

[neoELITE]

These three ended up with quite a few trophies over the years.

 

[bradigor]

Is the first one Megamind?

 

[Naysonymous]

The middle one is famously Steven Gerrard. 

[Ork1927]

Cardiff message boards descended into infighting and paraniod delusions now as we have fans getting annoyed that we might not be out looking for more players at the moment or that the FA won't might not extend the transfer window or that perhaps even if it wouldn't be grossly insensitive that perhaps Warnock and the staff aren't really able to go and find another striker as it isn't the same as clicking a couple of buttons on Football Manager.

 

Worse than that is some guy on Twitter reckons he saw flares from

An uninhabitated Island on Tuesday morning and now people are ringing and tweeting Guernsey search and rescue telling them

to search there on foot immediatly with lunatics chucking out theories that it's a conspiracy and they don't want him found or the authorities aren't doing their jobs properly or rhey are congratulating each other for somehow solving where he is.