Jump to content
rllmuk
Loik V credern

Mark Kermode's Secrets of Cinema - BBC4 19th March: Superheroes

Recommended Posts

I never got why Film [insert year here] ran as a series of 12 episodes a year. Bizarre. 

 

I agree some debates would be good, the heredity debate with Collins was brilliant, definitely sided with Mark there even though the exorcist comparison had clearly got to him. 

 

The in jokes are shit though aren't they, they are supposed to be. It's a bit like I'm Sorry I haven't a Clue, shit jokes repeated so much they go full circle into funny. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He's ok but I could never forget him saying how he hated Blue Velvet when he first saw it. I was 14 when I first saw it and it blew my mind, I couldn't understand how a supposed film critic had such a narrow viewpoint and close minded reading of the film. Of course he's since changed his mind.

 

Quote

Have you ever regretted going public with an opinion?


‘Well, “Blue Velvet” is the classic example back when I worked at City Life in Manchester. I walked out and rubbished it in the magazine.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, grindmouse said:

I'm really conflicted by Mark Kermode, on the one hand he's become an institution, and his radio show is reliably entertaining.

 

On the other hand, I don't think I've ever heard him say anything particularly insightful when reviewing a film, he occasionally will raise stuff you might learn in an Intro to Cinema textbook and Mayo at least pretends to fawn over it, but as a reviewer I much preferred Danny Leigh's stint on the BBC Film show. I tend not to agree with Kermode, especially where comedies are concerned - the guy has a middle-England vicar's sense of humour, as is evident by the deeply unfunny "injokes" and the fake bellowing laugh he always does at the mildest listener joke. It's pretty transparent how he always crowbars comparisons to his favourite films (Exorcist & Blade Runner Zzzzzz), which comes off as more of a fanboy than academic, and more than a little Gregg Turkington.

 

He's also a 'diplomatic' reviewer, which is a polite way of saying if he knows the British director or if he liked an actor in an interview, he will go easy on the film and praise the acting even if it's a turkey. So I consider him to be an inconsistent and unreliable reviewer, because I never trust whether he has taken against a film for legitimate reasons or because of some ideological objection. For instance, the way he slated Greatest Showman, but Mammia Mia 2 reduced him to tears (really?) or how whenever he reviews a Marvel film he basically cops out and says "comic book fans really enjoyed it". An exception to this is Deadpool 2, which I personally found to be a whole lot funnier and satisfying than the first, yet he went in hard against it, because "bigger budget doesn't make a better comedy"... what?!

 

But this series does sound interesting, and I enjoyed Mark Gatiss' horror film documentaries a lot, so if these are of a similar standard I will give them a watch.

 

While I'm here and moaning about film reviews: what's with the two best publications, Little White Lies & Kermode's own Sight & Sound, spoiling plot points in their reviews. It is absolutely possible to give a full academic analysis of a film whilst speaking broadly about its narrative direction, without giving away precise plot details and the film's ending. Last week Kermode pretty much gave away the ending to one of the film's he was praising because of how shocking it's end was.

It's so annoying as at the other end of the scale you have Empire and Total Film, which are little more than glorified advertisement brochures.

 

I loved Mamma Mia 2, yet hated Greatest Showman. Not all musicals are the same.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Bazjam said:

I loved Mamma Mia 2, yet hated Greatest Showman. Not all musicals are the same.

He said TGS had no catchy songs though which is pretty ridiculous. The soundtrack is fantastic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Bazjam said:

I loved Mamma Mia 2, yet hated Greatest Showman. Not all musicals are the same.

 

Oh right, see, I thought all musicals were the same. Cheers.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, grindmouse said:

 

Oh right, see, I thought all musicals were the same. Cheers.

Savage :sealclap:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, grindmouse said:

 

Oh right, see, I thought all musicals were the same. Cheers.

That's what you were suggesting given the examples you gave. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Stigweard said:

He said TGS had no catchy songs though which is pretty ridiculous. The soundtrack is fantastic.

Not a fan of them myself, but Kermode does admit that he got that wrong in terms of how catchy they are.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, grindmouse said:

 

The Church

Tinkity-Tonk

Hello to Jason Isaacs / Jeremy Irons

The Cruise

 

All of this shit is awful and it makes up a good 25-30% of every show/podcast.

 

The podcast runs to two hours, so you're saying they spend fully half an hour making these references every week? Nonsense. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

19 minutes ago, Bazjam said:

That's what you were suggesting given the examples you gave. 

 

I can’t relate to someone stating The Greatest Showman doesn’t have catchy or memorable tunes. It’s a well-made and accomplished film.

 

And then claiming a Richard Curtis fluff-piece with Abba songs reduced them to gushing sobs. It may be equally well-made, I’ve yet to see it so I cannot pass judgement, but my chin is stroked.

 

The point wasn’t that the films are the same, but that TGS connected with audiences, with original songs and Kermode didn’t get it, then Richard Curtis pens a sequel musical to an Abba soundtrack and Kermode is writhing around in jism.

 

They’re not *so* far apart that I’d expect these polarised responses and I strongly disagree with him about TGS.

 

Quote

The podcast runs to two hours, so you're saying they spend fully half an hour making these references every week? Nonsense. 

 

I tend to skip the first 15-20 mins to get to the charts, then they surface throughout the podcast. Even if it's an exaggeration, you get the point.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, grindmouse said:

 

 

I can’t relate to someone stating The Greatest Showman doesn’t have catchy or memorable tunes. It’s a well-made and accomplished film.

 

And then claiming a Richard Curtis fluff-piece with Abba songs reduced them to gushing sobs. I’ve yet to see it so I cannot pass judgement, but my chin is stroked.

 

The point wasn’t that the films are the same, but that TGS connected with audiences, with original songs and Kermode didn’t get it, then Richard Curtis pens a musical to an Abba soundtrack and Kermode is writhing around in jism. They’re not *so* far apart.

They're certainly similar, at least in the audience they target, but there's still plenty of room as a critic to like one and not the other. It would be like saying he can't like Infinity Wars whist disliking Justice League. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, K said:

It always feels a bit pointless to care too much about whether or not a critic is "right" about something. The most important thing should be whether or not you found their review interesting or entertaining, rather than whether their feelings about something completely subjective are in line with your own equally subjective opinions.

Exactly this. I like Kermode and Wittertainment a lot, and regularly attend the screenings he does in Cornwall, but find I disagree with him loads on his reviews (apart from Mamma Mia 2 which is fab). I look far more to Robbie Collin when it comes to judging whether I'd like a film.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, K said:

It always feels a bit pointless to care too much about whether or not a critic is "right" about something. The most important thing should be whether or not you found their review interesting or entertaining, rather than whether their feelings about something completely subjective are in line with your own equally subjective opinions.

 

But when you’re an academic like Kermode, that level of subjectivity should at least be a little bit more sophisticated, well-articulated and consistent as a result, than “this film just made be weep because on this occasion I embraced the lowest-common-denominator film-making and happen to like Abba’s music!”

 

MM2 is a bad example to use because I haven’t seen it, but my film professor’s would be able to tell you exactly why a film made them feel a certain way because of how it was shot etc. and Kermode only really does this when he’s talking up an obscure, limited release.

 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, grindmouse said:

 

But when you’re an academic like Kermode, that level of subjectivity should at least be a little bit more sophisticated,  well-articulated and consistent as a result, than “this film just made be weep because on this occasion I embraced the lowest-common-denominator film-making and happen to like Abba’s music!”

 

For someone who apparently "cannot pass judgement" on this film you haven't seen, you seem to be doing an awful lot of judgement passing. 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Rudderless said:

 

For someone who apparently "cannot pass judgement" on this film you haven't seen, you seem to be doing an awful lot of judgement passing. 

 

True. I’ve seen the first one, I’m assuming the tone is similar and won't turn into Schindler’s List with Abba songs halfway through.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I watched MM2, primed by mark's experience and really enjoyed it. Not seen the first one but the whole thing was hilarious and very fun. You need to see with an audience though.

 

I strongly disagree he needs to be more sophisticated, the whole point of the mamma Mia review is that the film broke down his critical faculties by getting him emotionally. That is the whole point of film! That's why he's a great critic, because he's passionate and he gets that. He acknowledges that he loves abba, and that he cries all the time. 

 

He's got no reason to like MM2 from a sophiscated critical perspective, the film is ridiculous. It's full of terrible exposition, bizarre dialogue and plot holes. But Cher turns up... And... Just... see it

  • Upvote 9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 19 July 2018 at 23:09, Delargey said:

And there are a ton of people that don't watch youtube*, so there is an audience for it.

 

*or don't know which you tube videos are Good And which are shit.

I fucking hate YouTube 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 29 July 2018 at 19:49, K said:

It always feels a bit pointless to care too much about whether or not a critic is "right" about something. The most important thing should be whether or not you found their review interesting or entertaining, rather than whether their feelings about something completely subjective are in line with your own equally subjective opinions.

You are aware that you are, er, on the internet aren't you.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Back to the podcast, in lieu of a dedicated thread.

 

I tend to agree with Clarice, maybe more than Kermode, but for the love of God she needs to can saying “I feel that / feel like” - she must’ve said it a dozen times during the Hotel Transylvania review. I figure it’s a confidence issue because it’s almost like she’s apologizing for her opinion.

I’m not saying she shouldn’t have the gig, but there are very competent and confident women reviewing movies on the Film 20XX show, and I end up feeling anxious listening to Clarice. It’s also like she’s reading an essay, I keep expecting her to relax and become more conversational but it seems this is her style.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only problem with Clarice is that she always gets paired with the dreadful Edith Boreman. She is clearly finding her voice but she is definitely a refreshing change from the usual lads bantz.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Fierce Poodle said:

The only problem with Clarice is that she always gets paired with the dreadful Edith Boreman. She is clearly finding her voice but she is definitely a refreshing change from the usual lads bantz.

 

I agree, and she makes some really incisive and informative observations. I enjoyed her dissection of the Neanderthal movie this week. Like you say, perhaps she needs a better partner to bounce off. If she finds the confidence in her voice, and works on the structure and delivery of her reviews I’d prefer her to Kermode.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Loik V credern said:

Kermode has picked 50 personal film recommendations, great classics and overlooked gems

 

https://www.bfi.org.uk/news-opinion/news-bfi/lists/mark-kermode-50-films-every-film-fan-should-watch

 

Came away wanting to see heist gone wrong film Face with Robert Carlyle.

 

 

I never knew Alex Cox made a Mexican film, let alone some of the other Euro fare I seemed to have missed that's right up my street. I take back what I said about him and Blue Velvet now, fuck it he made a mistake and openly admits it, people change, learn and grow, good on him. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. Use of this website is subject to our Privacy Policy, Terms of Use, and Guidelines.