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17 hours ago, Ork1927 said:

Greg checking social media in the car was gold.

 

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The pope has started following you.......

 

Cousin Greg was as inept as ever, love it!

 

The absolute disdain on the media management lady's face as he was talking to her in the apartment 🤣

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My only nagging thought thinking about having this back is where they go from here - there is always a danger with this kind of thing of it becoming an endless escalation of cunning plans and counter cunning plans which increasingly stretch credulity and make the characters move further and further away from how they started.

 

So far thru 2 seasons its all felt nice and organic but hoping they don't need to fit in 2 cringe moments a season (like Kendall's rap) and then a big twist or set piece like the yacht. 

 

Not saying they doing that at all yet, just a nagging thought I have which I counter by trusting in the writers 

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On 19/10/2021 at 17:24, Gotters said:

My only nagging thought thinking about having this back is where they go from here - there is always a danger with this kind of thing of it becoming an endless escalation of cunning plans and counter cunning plans which increasingly stretch credulity and make the characters move further and further away from how they started.

 

So far thru 2 seasons its all felt nice and organic but hoping they don't need to fit in 2 cringe moments a season (like Kendall's rap) and then a big twist or set piece like the yacht. 

 

Not saying they doing that at all yet, just a nagging thought I have which I counter by trusting in the writers 

 

I definitely agree that's a risk but I feel pretty confident in them as shows like that tend to swing about really rapidly. That's not really the case with Succession - while family dynamics shift a lot, they are still, in the end, not free from other elements, and some of the things that started in season 1 have still not been resolved, even if they feel less urgent now. That hostile takeover is still underway, for instance, and there's bound to be legal fallout from all the stuff down at Cruises. It feels like a big part of the story here is that the family are so obsessed with backstabbing and playing each other that they forget about the external threats to the company (and their part in it), which I think will keep the story relatively tight. We've also seen a lot of these cunning plans fall apart (as they're really not that cunning and often primarily rely on bullying or shoving money at a problem).

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5 hours ago, McFly said:

So...

 

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They're gonna fuck Gerri?

 

 

(s03e02)

 

Spoiler

I took that line to mean they're going to use Geri as the patsy for any fallout from Kendall's proof about Cruises, in the event that any materialises.

 

Absolutely superb episode. There were so many completely believable family dynamics at play in the scenes with the siblings. And I love that they haven't done a Team Kendall vs Team Logan, sibling vs sibling setup. Kendall exploding when everybody deserted him was amazing :lol:

 

 

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I cannot describe how amazing this show is. S03e02 was just perfect.

 

I can't even get anywhere near as close as this Indiewire review can in terms of describing why this ep was so good:

 

https://www.indiewire.com/2021/10/succession-season-3-episode-2-review-mass-in-time-of-war-spoilers-1234673372/

 

Spoiler

“He’s not infallible, Rome.”

 

“Yeah, sure, I just don’t think he ever fails or ever will.”

 

This is it. This is the deciding factor of the Roy-al Rumble — or this week’s round, at least. Shiv (Sarah Snook) and Roman’s (Kieran Culkin) contradictory back-and-forth about their father’s unconquerable nature so perfectly outlines the internal incongruity raging throughout “Mass in Time of War” (Season 3, Episode 2) that it’s amazing how far the Roy siblings are willing to go before, ultimately, shooting down Kendall (Jeremy Strong) and his passionate plea for a generational coup.

 

On paper, the strategy of the so-called “attention whore” should work. Logan (Brian Cox) has been labeled complicit in the company scandal by his own son. There are documents to prove it, and able (if not entirely willing) individuals to testify to their validity. Shareholders are spooked, and nothing settles folks down like a show of unity from familiar faces. So if the kids just join forces, whether it’s for the better good or their own gain, Logan is “toast.”

 

So why wouldn’t they? Episode 2, written by series creator Jesse Armstrong and directed by Emmy winner Mark Mylod, outlines those reasons — sound or otherwise — in painful detail. Yes, in the end, these kids are still scared of their dad. Connor (Alan Ruck) doesn’t want to “destroy” him; Roman worries a takeover would literally kill Logan; Shiv fears losing her status as “No. 1 boy”; and even Kendall, who’s leading the opposition party, is desperate for his siblings to stand by him so he’s not alone against their father. (His anxiety is neatly summed up when he asks his attorney, Lisa, played by Sanaa Lathan, to make sure there’s an untraceable plane ready to whisk him away to Frankfurt in case Logan just… shuts this whole thing down.) Behind all these rationales is the pervading fear that Logan is all-knowing and all-powerful, and all it takes to remind them as much is a box of donuts — which, it must be said, is a rather ingenious choice by Logan, not only to shatter the kids’ illusion that they’re safely meeting in secret, but to infantilize them with a “gift” of sugary treats.

 

But despite Kendall’s suspicions that the “fucking donuts” spooked them, that’s not actually all that’s at play here. Logan’s secret weapon isn’t a box of possibly poisoned pastries; it’s that he’s orchestrated a competitive instinct within his children since birth, raising them in an abusive household where they’re rewarded for cutthroat greed instead of taking care of each other. They see their father as a god, but they also see each other as deeply, profoundly mortal — which means they see weakness, and weakness isn’t meant to be healed; it’s meant to be punished, usually by dear ol’ daddy. Simply put: This group isn’t built to support each other. Just look at the key turning points throughout Kendall’s pitch.

 

The impromptu Roy siblings’ summit gets off to a great start. Shiv, upset that Logan gave Gerri (J. Smith-Cameron) the CEO job, heads to Kendall on her own, sans coaxing. Once there, his smiley confidence and zen demeanor rattle her enough to listen. “You tell yourself you’re a good person, but you’re not a good person,” Kendall says. “Right now, I’m the real you.” Shiv isn’t ready to hear that, even if there’s truth to it. Shiv distanced herself from the family and got into politics to make a difference. She supported candidates on the left who opposed her father, until his health scare brought her into the fold and lured her into coveting the top job. Any moral high ground she had over her brothers is now seen as a liability, since she lacks the “experience” needed to compete for Logan’s role. Kendall has that experience, and now he’s also aligned against Logan.

 

Of course, he’s still a piece of shit — as they all are, really — but back to the pitch. “It’s pretty simple,” he tells Shiv, Roman, and Connor. “Let’s gang up on dad and take him down.” Soon, he’s painting them the “big picture,” where Waystar Royco can become “omni-national,” “combine all its news operations,” “detoxify our brand and become supersonic.” I wont’ lie: I have no idea if there’s a cohesive, attainable win within all Kendall’s inflated business jargon, but Shiv’s expression near the end of his rambling says it all: She’s tempted. She sees something there that she didn’t expect to see. And if she sees it, the others can, too. (Shout-out to DP Patrick Capone and director Mark Mylod, for capturing so many of these of telling gestures while building visual context around the rapidly fluctuating hourlong negotiation.)

 

But then the bickering begins — not coincidentally, after Roman mentions their father. Once Logan comes up, Kendall moves away from business tactics and makes a righteous plea. “I’m just trying to be open-hearted and invite you in here,” he says, even though anyone should know such a “gesture” won’t sit well with an audience plagued by shame and insecurity, which they cloak through aggressive and constant attacks. The knives come out. Shiv takes a pointed jab at Roman’s sexual insecurities — comparing Gerri to his “mommy” and challenging him to “actually fuck something” — and the group gathered in Sophie’s soft, inviting bedroom starts to stiffen. When Connor returns with Roman, Kendall again goes to the moral well, claiming his side offers absolution, only no one can agree on how much they knew about the company scandal. “No, I didn’t know that dancers were fucking for their jobs and I didn’t know that we threw migrants off boats and covered it up as matter of secret company policy,” Shiv says, defiantly. (Connor, perhaps the sibling most at peace with being a sleazeball, admits he knew everything with far too much ease.)

 

Somehow, Kendall pulls them back from the brink and gets the trio to reconsider his offer once again. “I don’t know what I think about dad,” he says. “I love him, I hate him, I’m going to outsource it to my therapist. But he was going to send me to jail. He’d do the same to you, Rome. And Con. Shiv, I don’t know. I don’t know. Maybe.” This is a much better gambit! Cater to their “it’s him or me” mentality! But that ambitious mindset cuts both ways, and as soon as Kendall’s asked to paint a picture of the Waystar Royco landscape post-Logan, none of the kids can accept one of their own as the new boss. “If I was going to back you against dad, I would need to take over,” Shiv says, after they all balk at Kendall being the one to sit in the big chair.

 

After a few phone calls, the donuts arrive, and it’s all over. Whether it’s their selfish desire to win, their lack of trust in each other, their fear of their father, or a mixture of all these and more, the Roy kiddos depart on crushing terms. Kendall turns on each of them as they choose to walk away. “You’re not needed,” he says over and over to Connor, prompting a pitied reply from Roman of all people (“Like he hasn’t heard that enough in his life”), who gets the curt dismissal, “You’re a fucking moron,” before Kendall turns in desperation to Shiv, who he’s soon calling a coward and a “twat” for sticking with Logan. “It’s only your teats that give you any value,” he calls after her, as his best chance for a quick win walks into the elevator.

 

If last week’s premiere was about urgency and survival, then Episode 2 slows things down to study the root of the Roy family’s rot. Sure, Logan is the clear winner of Round II, having avoided a fatal blow from his gathered offspring, but Armstrong & Co. don’t build the narrative around suspense; you’re not meant to be on the edge of your seat, wondering if the kids will come together to take down their evil papa. It’s inevitable that they don’t, and understanding why is what brings the pain and power to “Mass in Time of War.” They’re all complicit. They’re all making choices for the wrong reasons. And they’re all going to drag everyone down with them as they do.

 

Just masterful in how tragic it all is. The kids are victims in this show. Spoilt, multi-millionaire victims.

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that was a brilliant episode, to generate so much tension in what was just a couple of locations with people talking was amazing. 

 

what stops it being boring is the script, it's just so perfect especially the siblings as years of bad behaviour and mistrust are evident in almost every word. 

 

the only thing that got close to this level in the writing was Mad Men.

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“I’m 98% sure the donuts are safe to eat.”

 

Roman has the best lines. 
 

Spoiler

Great episode and amazing how much control Logan has over them that he can manipulate them with what was presumably just a lucky guess. 
 

And Marcia is back this time without any pretence that she is in it for anything other than lining her and her kids’ pockets.

 

Greg is a bit too stupid now for my liking. At least before he had some kind of vague instinct of self-preservation that leant him some semblance of intelligence. He’s just super clueless now and is clearly going to be being manipulated by his gramps for his own ends. The Roys are such bastards!

 

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6 hours ago, El Geet said:

“I’m 98% sure the donuts are safe to eat.”

 

Roman has the best lines. 
 

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Great episode and amazing how much control Logan has over them that he can manipulate them with what was presumably just a lucky guess. 
 

And Marcia is back this time without any pretence that she is in it for anything other than lining her and her kids’ pockets.

 

Greg is a bit too stupid now for my liking. At least before he had some kind of vague instinct of self-preservation that leant him some semblance of intelligence. He’s just super clueless now and is clearly going to be being manipulated by his gramps for his own ends. The Roys are such bastards!

 

 

I don't think Greg is necessarily stupid, he's just incredibly awkward.

 

Spoiler

The bit with the lawyer at his door, for instance. Yes, he was dumb asking for advice from a first year law student, but he was astute enough to spot that it was a setup, and just didn't know how to tell them to fuck off without offending them.

 

Same with his uncle I think, he has realised quite quickly that this lawyer isn't out for him but doesn't really know how to get out of it without upsetting his uncle.

 

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Did everybody else get the Babe reference when Greg was chatting to his uncle, nicely worked in I thought and made me smile. 

 

I don't think Greg has been made more stupid, he's shitting himself at finding himself somehow in the middle of all this and seeing what they are willing to do to close family, he wants to play the game but hasn't really got a clue who to back and how to protect himself so he's trying to keep them all in play and cover his own arse. Which will be pretty difficult to do against the resources he's up against. 

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1 hour ago, Gotters said:

Did everybody else get the Babe reference when Greg was chatting to his uncle, nicely worked in I thought and made me smile. 

 

I don't think Greg has been made more stupid, he's shitting himself at finding himself somehow in the middle of all this and seeing what they are willing to do to close family, he wants to play the game but hasn't really got a clue who to back and how to protect himself so he's trying to keep them all in play and cover his own arse. Which will be pretty difficult to do against the resources he's up against. 

All fair points. I think it was the way he was asking a first year law student to advise on how to lawyer up and how he might not be clear that a Waystar lawyer may not be the best bet for him. 
 

He’s clearly way out of his depth. 

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I've enjoyed the first two episodes, but still have the nagging feeling that we're heading towards 'series 3 is where a thing stops becoming appointment viewing' territory.

 

For all of the dissection of the manipulation and interaction between Logan and his kids

Spoiler

I never, for one second, thought they'd do anything other than humour Ken before siding with their dad. It's well-worn in the series, and didn't speak as much to his masterful doughnut manipulation (oh my), as much as the characters remaining in their very-well-established types.

 

However, I imagine some significant upheaval is coming.

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I thought it was interesting that they (quite clumsily)

Spoiler

introduced the fact that Gerri had two daughters. I think Gerri and Roman's relationship is the most interesting variable in what's being constructed. She is becoming the parental mentor figure that Logan never was - and she is shrewd, far shrewder than Kendall. Feels like Gerri is going to become a big piece on the chessboard this season, and her motives for some epic future scraps are being seeded early.

 

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38 minutes ago, schmojo said:

I've enjoyed the first two episodes, but still have the nagging feeling that we're heading towards 'series 3 is where a thing stops becoming appointment viewing' territory.

 

For all of the dissection of the manipulation and interaction between Logan and his kids

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I never, for one second, thought they'd do anything other than humour Ken before siding with their dad. It's well-worn in the series, and didn't speak as much to his masterful doughnut manipulation (oh my), as much as the characters remaining in their very-well-established types.

 

However, I imagine some significant upheaval is coming.

You could be right although

Spoiler

the reintro of Marcia and the demands for her family to be given roles brings back another antagonist to drive a wedge. 


 

The kids are all becoming more clearly aware of Logan’s manipulations.

Spoiler

We saw the various reactions to his being nice to them all. The donut move I think just shows that they’re mainly afraid of him now. They don’t give a shit about him I don’t think. 

 

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25 minutes ago, barkbat said:

I thought it was interesting that they (quite clumsily)

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introduced the fact that Gerri had two daughters. I think Gerri and Roman's relationship is the most interesting variable in what's being constructed. She is becoming the parental mentor figure that Logan never was - and she is shrewd, far shrewder than Kendall. Feels like Gerri is going to become a big piece on the chessboard this season, and her motives for some epic future scraps are being seeded early.

 

I hope so! Gerri is great. 

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Great episode. The scene in the car where Kendall meets Sandy’s people was a bit odd - I thought the actor who played him must have died or something, because they had this weird meeting where he says two words down the phone, and the rest of the discussion is done via the proxy of his newly-introduced daughter. Were there some Covid scheduling problems or illness or something?

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Another fantastic episode today.

 

Spoiler

I love that despite Kendall and Logan's different approaches - Kendall desperately wanting to be 'part of the conversation' and Logan still trying to bully the system as he's done for decades - they're still subject to exactly the same hubris.

 

And Tom calmly announcing at dinner that "some people from the FBI are raiding the premises" was wonderful.

 

I might be misremembering but they seem to have changed Naomi Pierce's character a bit, last season she didn't strike me as the type of person to be laughing along with 'Good Tweet Bad Tweet' in the back of the limo - I assumed she would be a prominent influence on Kendall but she seems to have just been slotted into his entourage so far.

 

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So who was responsible for

Spoiler

Nirvana...

 

Edit:

Hmm google is suggesting Kendall which is what I thought was obvious but I seemed to have missed where this was revealed beyond Shiv going to his office after?

 

I thought it was excellent just not as cuttingly funny as before, but it felt like this was necessary to move the plot along quite a fair bit to what we have been used to previously with this series.

 

I mean did anyone actually expect

Spoiler

the FBI to be raiding Waystar by Episode 3

considering how slow the other 2 series have developed?

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28 minutes ago, Minion said:

So who was responsible for

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Nirvana...

 

Edit:

Hmm google is suggesting Kendall which is what I thought was obvious but I seemed to have missed where this was revealed beyond Shiv going to his office after?

 

 

 

 

Spoiler

I don't think it was spelled out but I assumed it was the pay-off from when he sends the guy out with a shopping list. 

 


I thought that was one of the all-time great episodes. Proper jokes, cringe bits (I think my blood pressure hits the red zone when I watch this show), great character bits and amazing acting.

Spoiler

Kens walk and facial expression and slump against the server cabinet was so perfect and the look on his face when he reads about the FBI raiding Roystar was a perfect ending.

 

Even Gregs stupid watch story was fun. And the new version of the theme over the last scene and credits was so good. 

 

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