Keyforge

[Alex W.]

 

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/keyforge/

 

I can’t quite get my head around how this is going to play out in practice as a thing people buy with a secondary market and losing cards down the sofa.

[revlob]

Yeah I'm left scratching my head at a few details. The selling-the-whole-deck-as-a-booster concept is a pretty ballsy idea, but I wonder just how much life there is in a game with zero deck construction. How much of 'meta' is there when your entire deck is predetermined for you, at random?

[SimonC]

Ashes: Rise of the Phoenixborn (by plaid hat games) does the buy a complete deck thing and it's a lovely 2 player card game. It is different from this though in that you can deckbuild if you want to. This sounds quite intriguing though and I suspect I'll be grabbing a copy and a couple of extra decks once it's available.

[scottcr]

I love this idea... I'm a huge fan of good CCGs' I spent far too much money and time on MtG back in the day.  I tried Destiny recently and it's great - but I just can't keep up with how fast these games evolve and change.  I love the idea of a completely level playing field for everyone - get a deck, look through your cards and get on with it.  No deck building, no 2nd hand market, no ridiculously complex meta that means I'd have no chance against anyone.  

 

perfect for me.

[SimonC]

That's what appeals to me too. I doubt many people I know will buy it but I can have a few decks and just play my copy with friends without any hassle. Sounds perfect to me, and that's the reason why I also have Ashes and got rid of Netrunner and various other deck builders a couple of years ago.

[Hexx]

So @Kauwiks discussed at the weekend and weren't 100% sure we got it right.

 

You buy a deck, you play it.

 

If you want to play another deck you buy it.

You buy 10 decks, you can play any of them indiviudally. But you can't recombine them in any way? It's each premade deck or nothing?

 

There's no deck building, no swappsies - just whatever combination is in your bought deck(s)?

 

 

[revlob]

11 minutes ago, Hexx said:

So @Kauwiks discussed at the weekend and weren't 100% sure we got it right.

 

You buy a deck, you play it.

 

If you want to play another deck you buy it.

You buy 10 decks, you can play any of them indiviudally. But you can't recombine them in any way? It's each premade deck or nothing?

 

There's no deck building, no swappsies - just whatever combination is in your bought deck(s)?

 

 

 

Richard Garfield's been posting a little about it on BGG and here's what I've learnt:

 

When you buy a deck, inside the pack you'll get 37 cards. One of those is the identity card and also serves as a checklist detailing the deck's contents, but the other 36 will be 12 cards belonging to three of the game's seven factions. Every deck has a unique name (printed on every card) and a unique card back, so you cannot remove a card from one deck and put it in another (at least, not according to the standard tournament rules).

 

You've no idea what's in your deck until you open its box. The starter set contains two fixed decks which will be exactly the same in every set and serve to teach the game, but you are also given two random decks just like you'd buy separately.

 

The first set has about 370 unique cards. There's still a rarity aspect to individual cards determining the frequency with which they'll show up, but some cards have a 'special' rarity, meaning the algorithm which determines the cards in any given deck isn't completely random. For example, there are four "Horsemen" cards, but if you have any one of them then your deck will have all four. There's also some checks to ensure that cards which play off the keywords of others aren't rendered useless by those keywords not being present in the deck.

[Hexx]

Seems ballsy. Not sure how much meta etc there will be - but also can see "chasing" certain decks being pricey...

 

What if you lose a card though. Or a cat eats it. Or you spill Elderflower fizz on it? (all obviously hypothetical)

[revlob]

Card #123 in your deck will be functionally exactly the same as card #123 in any other deck, so if you sleeved the cards to obscure their backs then there's no technical reason you couldn't replace a card or even construct your own decks, unless you're playing in a tournament.

[michael]

I have played it, and it is not very good at all. If you've got questions, fire away, but in general it feels there's no reason it should exist. 

[revlob]

11 minutes ago, michael said:

I have played it, and it is not very good at all. If you've got questions, fire away, but in general it feels there's no reason it should exist. 

 

What didn't you like about it? Do you like games of that type (Magic etc.)?

[DukeOfEarlsfield]

9 hours ago, SimonC said:

Ashes: Rise of the Phoenixborn (by plaid hat games) does the buy a complete deck thing and it's a lovely 2 player card game.

Apologies for going off topic but is this game really good? I fell in love with the artwork a few years ago and I'd love a good, punchy duelling card game. I've been put off a little bit by the fact that every time I've tried to find out how the game plays it feels overly technical.  Too much terminology and symbols to remember.

 

I'd love to know how difficult it is to get up and going with and how easy it is to teach.

[SimonC]

13 hours ago, DukeOfEarlsfield said:

Apologies for going off topic but is this game really good? I fell in love with the artwork a few years ago and I'd love a good, punchy duelling card game. I've been put off a little bit by the fact that every time I've tried to find out how the game plays it feels overly technical.  Too much terminology and symbols to remember.

 

I'd love to know how difficult it is to get up and going with and how easy it is to teach.

 

I really like it, and yes the artwork is fantastic. After buying it I got rid of netrunner and warhammer invasion as it scratches the 2 player duelling itch without the need to deck build. It’s good game to just get out and play with friends without them also needing to own a copy, and that doesn’t work very well for most CCG’s / LCG’s.

 

Ashes does have a learning curve but it’s not hugely complicated. The rule book is pretty good and after a game or two you’ll most likely have the hang of it. I’d definitely recommend it!

[Hexx]

18 hours ago, revlob said:

Card #123 in your deck will be functionally exactly the same as card #123 in any other deck, so if you sleeved the cards to obscure their backs then there's no technical reason you couldn't replace a card or even construct your own decks, unless you're playing in a tournament.

 

OK. Suppose that would give it some longevity...

[Kauwiks]

I may have ordered two decks of this. Despite my reservations, has to be worth a pop at £15 if I can just use some tokens from something else as stand-ins.

[SimonC]

I've preordered the starter box and two extra decks. A couple of friends are buying decks too so looking forward to a few games of this in the next few weeks!

[Tourist]

I am a bit sceptical about this but ordered it anyway. Exciting!

[jonamok]

My starter set is due tomorrow. Have read the rules a few times, and much of the lore. Can’t wait. Hoping I get one of the banned decks - they pooched the algorithm apparently so a few inappropriate keywords are in the database, already leading to deck names like these three crackers appearing:

 

- Wang, the suddenly bruised

- Empticate, the antagoniser of boys

- Titanslayer, the farmer of racism

 

Seriously, how the fuck does the word ‘racism’ end up in their procedural naming database? 

[Kauwiks]

21 hours ago, Kauwiks said:

I may have ordered two decks of this. Despite my reservations, has to be worth a pop at £15 if I can just use some tokens from something else as stand-ins.

Never mind, Amazon have told me they're delayed, so I've cancelled my order.

Let's pretend it was renewed willpower instead.

[Hexx]

 

 

Some of these deck names are brilliant

[Hexx]

[Nicky]

oh my...

[Tourist]

Amazing. Not sure I can hold out till December 9 which is when the game will wend its way to Japan...

[jonamok]

Opened the starter box, perused the decks. The intro decks look fun. But the two retail decks didn’t have naughty names sadly, though both look like they’ll be interesting to play. Got a few rates in each, and one has the Mars house in it. I love the Mars creatures and the art. Not gonna get the chance now till the weekend though. 

[jonamok]

Just played my first game against the missus using the beginner decks. She had the one that focuses on Dis, Shadows and Brobnar, mine was Logos, Sanctum and Untamed. Took about an hour, as we learned the rules as we played. 

 

She’s not really a keen gamer, and mostly plays to give me someone to play. Bless her.

 

Anyway, predictably, she battered me. Easily forging 3 keys to my consolation 1. Her Dis cards were just rampant, stealing my hard-earned aember as fast as I could generate it (which was not very fast). Then she just brutally unloaded an army of Shadows creatures that reaped 7 the next turn and that was that.

 

Will play a few more games with these decks before trying out the sealed decks in the box at some point.

[jonamok]

Second game with starter decks was MUCH better. The synergy for my deck was there, the draws were better and I played it smarter. Even so, and despite the missus having a few poor turns I only just squeaked it 3 keys to 2, and she had 5/6 aember for her 3rd key. Great fun. Get it.

[SimonC]

I've played this 6 times now. It's a lot of fun! All the fun of a CCG without the countless hours of deckbuilding. Once you know the rules it's nice and fast too. You can easily get through a game in 30 minutes. 

[Mortis]

Picked up a starter set of this yesterday. Only had a couple of games so far but it’s hitting the right notes for me. 

 I’ve always liked the mechanics of CCG’s but hated the idea that someone with deep pockets can just buy a better deck and you’re always up against it. 

 A few folk I know have picked it up and a FLGS is running weekly tournaments so I may try and pop along once I manage a win or 2

[Lochenvar]

Can I ask where you found a copy? Seems like it's out of stock everywhere. 

[Mortis]

 

My local game cafe had a copy left - to be honest I wish I’d just bought some decks and used an alternative (dice, cubes, Amber from Everdell) because the starter decks are only useful for the first game or 2 and then you’ll never play them again. 

 

 For anyone interested in trying it thecrucible.online let’s you import any deck and play online with others. 

 Handy for testing decks out that you own or seeing how a horsemen deck actually plays. Better get a look before FFG hit them with a DMCA takedown