Star Trek: Picard - Season 3, it's not s**t

[NecroMorrius]

Shame this started so well and got a bit crap. I appreciate them trying to turn it into a Mass Effect style quest-with-crew-subplots but there were too many crew and guest appearances and it was too rushed as a result. I half wonder if it would work better if there were more episodes and they really stuck to the Mass Effect 2 template - a 1-2 parter for each character where PIcard helps resolve the baggage of every crewmember, the occasional episode moving the plot forward, before the crew finally pull together in a desperate bid to save the day. As it was, I was never really sold on half the crew, and never really sure who the core crew were.

 

It's not unsalvageable, I would still watch season 2. It's a lot better than Discovery but that's not saying much. Watch The Expanse.

[Garwoofoo]

The final episode was, sadly, a bit bobbins. I completely missed how Doctor Jurati got the magical McGuffin that saved the day, and there were too many scenes where you just thought: naaah

 

 

Riker spending years in the woods eating pizza but being given command of a flagship within days just because he phoned them up and asked to have a go.

 

The amazing technological advance of the Golem not only being used on a doddering old coot but being used to give him the exact same body he had in the first place. (I'd rather they'd just skipped the whole "fake death" thing entirely - admittedly that would have meant missing out on the Fat Data scenes, which were quite touching, but overall this whole thing was the weakest part of the entire series for me).

And, as others have pointed out, an entire colony of synths with the ability to summon the Giant Metal Space Worms of Death any time they choose, just being left to get on with it.

 

 

And that's a shame, because overall I really enjoyed the series: they mostly got the pacing right, it had an episodic kind of feel to it in places, Stewart was great, I liked the new crew (Rios especially) and I tuned in every week not out of a sense of duty (as with Discovery) but because I genuinely wanted to watch it and see what happened next.

 

I hope someone's keeping Patrick Stewart in isolation somewhere until the coronavirus outbreak passes because I'd really like a series 2 of this and now the heavy lifting's been done in terms of setup I think it could be very good indeed.

[jcafarley]

I wish they wouldn’t have so many ships for these encounters. Aside from the fact that it doesn’t fit with the idea of the Romulans being a broken people, it lessens the stakes. A stand off between a few ships always feels far more engaging because the audience knows and cares about the crew on those ships. Instead we get Star Wars style battles in Star Trek that lack any kind of impact. Kurtzman is such a hack.

[jonamok]

Things I liked:

Picard

Rios

Data

Troi

 

Things that were okay:

Seven

Hugh

Riker

Soji

 

Things that were meh: Everything else apart from the things I fucking despised:

IncestTwins

Agnes

Raffi

Smegolas

 

[MK-1601]

15 hours ago, monkeydog said:

"Set planetary annihilation pattern five".

 

How many planetary annihilation patterns do you need? 

 

[PopeSmokesDope]

14 hours ago, mdn2 said:

As someone who would rather gouge his eyes out than watch Discovery, what's the link between this show and that, then?

 

They're both fucking shit.

 

The writing for this was on the wall the moment they announced the Discovery writers were also writing this.....

[MK-1601]

Who are these people who don't like Agnes?

 

Would you rather Tilly from Discovery, the dork who makes Neelix look like fucking Shaft?

 

...

 

I was a bit wary when they announced a second series but I think they've set up enough solid characters to do *something* good with it. It all comes down to writing quality in the end. If they let Michael Chabon (or someone - not Kurtzmann or any of that lot) go off and write a good series-long story that's not trying to crowbar in all of TNG's greatest hits I'd watch it.

[GC Zombie]

What happened to posh Romulan spyboy?

Spoiler

He got dragged off by androids during the fight around the beacon but then I don't remember him being in it again?

 

[Mr Ben]

3 hours ago, Flub said:

 

You mean when Picard and Agnes were racing through the flowers to get to the Romulan fleet? Romulans use plasma weapons or disruptors. Which are green.

They looked far slimmer than a plasma shot, which is why I said they looked like lasers. They can also be beam type, like phasers:

Old style disruptor pulse:

Disruptor beams:

Picards "pew pew" lasers (not the best shot, but all I could find):

 

4 hours ago, Bacon Horsemeat said:

What I found really disappointing was that there was no massive orgy of a spacefight. You make the effort of bringing all those ships together, you're expecting a ruckus. Although why position them so close together?

 

And they were very lazy on the variety of ships - usually in space "battles" you get different combos. Here all I saw was the flagship dreadnaught x 100, same with the even more boring Romulan Bird of Prey.

 

They seem to have been rushed for time on the last episode at least, if not more. I've also read that there were a lot of reshoots done, which likely didnt help the series narrative cohesiveness:

Quote

"Right now, I'm on the bridge of the toughest, fastest, most powerful starship Starfleet has ever put into service and I've got a fleet of them at my back," Riker says.

 

And he's right, they all look identical: very much like the Pathfinder Class from Star Trek Online, which raises a few questions. Is Starfleet really only building one class of starship now? Well, according to TrekCore, the visual effects work for the season only got completed last week and VFX supervisor Ante Dekovic said that a wider range of ship variation simply wasn't possible due to a lack of available production time. And that just sounds a bit odd. 

Taken from here (Space.com review of the final episode).

[Monkeyboy]

Well then. Overall, crap.

[Monkeyboy]

On 27/03/2020 at 03:34, Mr Ben said:

Cant even stay consistent with itself:

at the Sisko bits

 

I did wonder what had happened to the lightning. At the time the writers (or Kurtzman) will have have been thinking, "Oooo, lightning! That's so dramatic! But what's more dramatic than lightning? More lightning!! Wait, what about CONSTANT lightning!!! DRAMATIC times a MILLION!!!!"

 

But then they had to have two episodes on the planet at the end. "Er... lightning? What lightning?"

 

[Mr Ben]

Wait, the showrunner actually wanted fans to hate the show?

https://boundingintocomics.com/2020/03/27/star-trek-picard-showrunner-michael-chabon-admits-he-wanted-to-piss-off-or-provoke-people/

 

Season 2 will have high viewer numbers then

[NecroMorrius]

Fucking hell. Just let Naren Shankar have Star Trek when he's finished with The Expanse. He worked on TNG, DS9 and Voyager, and has put together the best sci-fi since BSG on a shoestring. I don't want Star Trek to be anything like The Expanse, I just want someone who knows how to do Star Trek to do Star Trek.

[Garibaldi]

3 hours ago, Mr Ben said:

Wait, the showrunner actually wanted fans to hate the show?

https://boundingintocomics.com/2020/03/27/star-trek-picard-showrunner-michael-chabon-admits-he-wanted-to-piss-off-or-provoke-people/

 

Season 2 will have high viewer numbers then

 

Fucking hell, so much insincerity and shoulder shrugging. Implying that the most vocal haters are toxic, with some kind of racist/sexist/etc axe to grind, rather than them just thinking Picard was mediocre. Saying ‘the mere fact’ that it was Star Trek made it difficult for people to accept darkness. You massive spanner, Chabon, it was the fact that it was ham-fisted and often unnecessary darkness that made it difficult for people to accept. Still, the site counters some of his points fairly well. 

 

For all this standing firm, there’s still an element of pointing at Patrick Stewart and saying ‘he told me to do this.’ Which, I think, is the real crux of it. Chabon is working damage control, but he can’t entirely keep schtum on his real feelings. 

[Jammy]

The main thing I took from the show (which incidentally I didn’t hate, but it’s very hit and miss) is that I’d rather see a Riker show.

[mikeyl]

Eww Bounding Into Comics is a proper I heart the Joker movie Comicsgate hatesite. 

 

Star Trek obsessives are the least chill, thought it was alright, loads of stupid shit.

 

The last show I watched was when TNG was on bbc2 but a lot of the nostalgic bits gave a bit of a thrill e.g. Data death chat, taking control of a Borg ship, space fleet face off, Picard arguing or playing dress up and clowning around. Killed a few hours when we all have nothing better to do with our time.

[Hamus]

What happened in that last episode?

 

For a show that had a lot of slow episodes suddenly, RESOLVE EVERYTHING.

 

Hugely disappointing and the Picard outcome was just weird and not needed.

 

The final shot with all those people together, oh come on.

 

Spoilery stuff

 

 

7o9 - great character and actress, totally underused. The point where by she became the Borg Queen gave so much hope and possibilities! Then the Romulans had a one button kill for all the Borg? Fuck off - it was the promise of a fun twist with seven becoming evil or powerful, undermined by poor writing.

What was the point?
Her final two main appearances.

1) She had a random fight with Romu girl - ended super quick. Kick her down a hole!
Rubbish.
2) She's now immediately getting it on with the other old woman in the crew. Yep. Great character development there.

Picard golem/data
Utter bobbins. What was the point? Everyone sat around happy that his entirely natural death meant that Data stayed dead long before his time.

Picard is 90+, Data died when he was 40.

Selfish of everyone and Data wouldn't really want to die surely.

Picard says he feels guilt for letting Data die for him before? Well he's done it again. No guilt there now! I can blast off into space with a new crew!

Federation arrive/leave
Will turns up to save the day. The Romulans are all mean and are going to kill the mini-me-datas.

Wait! The Romulans have gone.

Riker "Well that's sorted, no point in us hanging around for a bit to check if the Romulans come back. Probably not even worth leaving a few ships to be sure.
Let's go home! I left a pizza on!".

 

Rubbish.

 

Throwaway line explanation

"Non organics are allowed now!"

Did someone tick a box at star fleet and all the legislation is undone? While I don't like legislative heavy sci fi (see Star Wars 1), this balls.

 

Hugh

Yeah just kill him with a dart thing. Why even have him there.

The S2 crew
How/why do they need to be coupling up? Cringe worthy final scene, with Pill kissing Rio's like they're meant to be. She fucking killed someone in their sick bay! Her former lover! Why isn't he worried and frankly, he could do better. I see no real chemistry between them and what does he see in her? It's weird.

Overall
Started slow, rushed at the end, weird tentacles from the beyond coming through a hole in space - a crap avengers. Cravengers?

Such a shame, it feels like a weird off shoot of TNG in a different universe.

 

 

They made it blow.

[BossSaru]

10 hours ago, Jammy said:

The main thing I took from the show (which incidentally I didn’t hate, but it’s very hit and miss) is that I’d rather see a Riker cooking show.

 

Corrected

[Flub]

20 hours ago, Mr Ben said:

They looked far slimmer than a plasma shot, which is why I said they looked like lasers. They can also be beam type, like phasers:

Old style disruptor pulse:

Disruptor beams:

Picards "pew pew" lasers (not the best shot, but all I could find):

 

 

They seem to have been rushed for time on the last episode at least, if not more. I've also read that there were a lot of reshoots done, which likely didnt help the series narrative cohesiveness:

Taken from here (Space.com review of the final episode).

 

There were beams and cannon fire in there. They looked like they were all disruptor to me. Star Trek is not terribly consistent generally either. Aren't phasers supposed to be blue?

[Monkeyboy]

 

[jcafarley]

This video does a good job of summing up the massive tone shift between pre-Abrams/Kurtzman Star Trek and what we have today.

 

At its best, Star Trek is/was thoughtful in its exploration of humanity. 'Modern' Star Trek has no interest in that because its written by teenagers.

 

 

 

[Mr Ben]

4 hours ago, Flub said:

 

There were beams and cannon fire in there. They looked like they were all disruptor to me. Star Trek is not terribly consistent generally either. Aren't phasers supposed to be blue?

Nah, red/orange normally. Blue is usually used for phased polaron type weapons, like the Dominion has. I'm guessing you've been watching Discovery, where it seems the Federation has somehow acquired this technology, and 100 years early:

 

@Monkeyboy and @jcafarley, yeah Major Grin's great at easily pointing out all the flaws then taking the piss out of them. It also shows Enterprise did their homework for that show, which is more than can be said for any Trek show since.

[Papaya Dance]

Of all the things to critique the show for, and there are many, the colour of the phasers is the least of my concerns.

[Mogster]

Discovery was going with the TOS style phasers, which were also blue. There's plenty to criticise about that show, but that isn't one of them.

[Flub]

25 minutes ago, Mr Ben said:

Nah, red/orange normally. Blue is usually used for phased polaron type weapons, like the Dominion has. I'm guessing you've been watching Discovery, where it seems the Federation has somehow acquired this technology, and 100 years early:

 

 

 

They're firing phasers in that show. Wonder why they're blue?

 

 

*Edit* Also. Polaron are purple. Tetryon are blue

[Mr Ben]

23 minutes ago, Flub said:

 

They're firing phasers in that show. Wonder why they're blue?

 

*Edit* Also. Polaron are purple. Tetryon are blue

ToS had some inconsistency in its colouring, some shots were blue, others were red/orange.

They are supposed to be red/orange though for Federation. Other races seem to have different colours for their phasers. Admittedly, the science behind it all should mean you wouldnt see any beam at all, but that wouldnt make for good ship battles, obviously.

[Flub]

22 minutes ago, Mr Ben said:

ToS had some inconsistency in its colouring, some shots were blue, others were red/orange.

They are supposed to be red/orange though for Federation. Other races seem to have different colours for their phasers. Admittedly, the science behind it all should mean you wouldnt see any beam at all, but that wouldnt make for good ship battles, obviously.

 

In modern star trek phasers are orange. disruptors and plasma are green with different types of beam. What we're seeing in Picard are disruptor beam arrays and disruptor cannon fire. Discovery uses blue phasers because these days the showrunners have decided that what they actually used in TOS (Red/orange inconsistencies aside).

 

Poleron purple. Tetryon blue. Anti-proton red with black inside. Then you'll have some variants by faction but in modern Trek the colour scheme generally holds. This now includes blue for TOS era phasers.

 

To get back to the original nerdy point there's nothing wrong with the Romulan weapons. They're perfectly right.

 

 

[Mr Ben]

I dont watch Discovery, so dont really care what the showrunners have decided. They're red/orange in the majority of films (ToS films included), as well as series, special effect cock-ups aside. I'm not going to keep banging on about a colour detail more than I have done.

 

And as stated, regardless of the colour of something or what disruptors look like, both Picard and Discovery are terrible for multiple reasons that have already been covered in this, and in Discovery's own thread.

[Myshkin]

On 28/03/2020 at 11:22, GwiDan said:

At best that series will go down in history as that time they brought Picard back for a show nobody remembers rather than something you’d sit and watch if you caught a repeat. Riker was pretty much the only character whose personality traits even vaguely resembled who he had been in old series, everyone else was unrecognisable.

Deanna seemed on par too. Like she'd amtured even more.

[Hamus]

2 hours ago, Mr Ben said:

 

@Monkeyboy and @jcafarley, yeah Major Grin's great at easily pointing out all the flaws then taking the piss out of them. It also shows Enterprise did their homework for that show, which is more than can be said for any Trek show since.

 

Their homework at making a show duller than the original trek, or the first 2 episodes of voyager?