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Samurai Spirits/Shodown - 2019

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It has to be a slash button, you shouldn’t be getting grab as kick doesn’t count so can be left out of the tapping. 

 

I can’t remember if it’s 4 or 5 taps in this game from my dabbling last night. In SF it’s usually 5 but this might be more lenient. 

 

Using multiple slash buttons  (piano-ing) is usually recommended so you can do L/M/L/M to get it out it faster.

 

You don’t need to tap forward repeatedly you just hold it. 

 

The trick to using them is to buffer the input inside other actions. Chadlotte’s has great forward motion on it, so I can back dash, then hold forward and do the input while she’s locked in the back dash  animation and it will come out as soon as she recovers from the back dash. 

 

This is is how you can combo into them also. If you have a normal attack that can be cancelled into special moves it will cancel into the rapid fire special move as well. So you could do a medium slash and input the move while the medium slash is coming out/connecting  and then the medium slash will cancel into the rapid fire attack as soon as you finish the input.

 

You can also use the opening attack as part of the input, so you could press towards + medium slash to do the medium slash, and that will count as the first input for the special move, then when you tap out the rest the medium slash will cancel into the special move. 

 

Keep in in mind that the normal attack you’re cancelling will usually need to connect (hit or be blocked by the opponent) or the cancel won’t happen. This is useful though as you can stick the normal slash out with the rapid fire input happening in the background and the special move will only come out if the opponent gets touched. This is special move buffering. 

 

Many games have exceptions to this so you can cancel moves into special moves without them connecting (empty/Kara cancel) but I’m not sure if SamSho has that. 

 

I hope all of that  was somewhat coherent I know fighting game terminology is baffling to a lot of folks. 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, JLM said:

If you have a normal attack that can be cancelled into special moves...

Ah, I think that might be the majority of my problem. I was probably trying to start with a normal that isn't special cancellable. I'll have to dive deeper in practice mode. Thanks for the breakdown.

 

I always find these mashing moves are so hard to do on a pad (which is what I use) when piano'ing on a stick is much quicker but in my tests I'm almost certain I managed to pull it off with only a couple of presses on occasion so I thought there might be a secret timing or hidden shortcut rule to help lowly padders. Thanks again for the pointers.

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This is so good! Had a quick run through arcade with Jūbei last night, I like his slow and defensive approach to things, but then his standing HS and crouching MS have almost a full screen's reach. The boss wasn't too bad at all, you just need to realise when to attack and when to go in the defensive. If you get it wrong then, yes goodbye 70% of your health bar.

 

It's a very beginner-friendly game I feel; normals have long reach and big impact, reversals and dodges are relatively easy to pull off, inputs seem shared across characters. In the best possible way it reminds me of the golden age of Dreamcast-era Capcom fighters - Project Justice, Tech Romancer, Plasma Sword.

 

And the character ending art is just sick.

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As someone that has spent many hours watching SFV tournaments and been consistently mauled whenever I tried to play online (to the point I barely got a chance to hit some buttons) I've found this to be a welcome change. I got obliterated in my first session, which is fine, but last night I played another hour or so and the mental sparring that played out with opponents was superb fun - even earning me quite a few wins against opponents that were consistently beating me previously.

 

I played my second session last night and switched to Jubei for those satisfying counters (dear god they feel great) and, sure enough, got demolished by multiple people. But everyone was gracious, and with each loss I felt the answer was me in 'me learning from my mistakes' and not 'gotta go into the lab and drill combos for hours while revising frame data'. One session in particular was about 25 matches against a Genjuro and he was giving me a good spanking but I started to recognise and learn the huuuuuge windows available against certain attacks. Moreso, I was focusing on what his patterns and habits with some great, tense moments in neutral where neither one wanted to show their hand. Very quickly into the session I felt I was 'fighting my opponents mind' and not wrestling with the games systems and combos screaming "do I get a chance to attack yet?!". I've spent hours trying to drill combos in SFV but I'm 2 sessions into SamSho and I'm focussing on my gameplan and tactics with barely a care for execution or framedata. Buh-bye SFV. I'm not saying this is better, but I'm getting far more enjoyment from the fights.

 

All that being said, it doesn't look like there's many people playing so I worry it's going to be a graveyard real quick. I hope it takes off in the tournament scene as I'd love to watch some high-level players and break down the hard reads that can make it so satisfying.

 

Edit: Also, what I learned from my Jubei time...

  • Dashing Heavy Slash does great damage and seems ridiculously safe considering the norm
  • Purposefully getting a Medium Slash blocked and then immediately doing a MS counter can work surprisingly often as people try to exploit your rebound and it does massive damage
  • Keep poking with Medium Slash then suddenly dash up and throw followed by Cr Heavy Slash really started to open up my opponents
  • I think his F, D, DF + Slash seems to do a decent amount of chip damage as I ended a few close stalemates by just charging at them with it

 

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This is such a good game. You can tell Dimps (SF4 devs) have had a hand in it for sure. The art style is lovely and it all feels incredibly weighty, responsive and satisfying. They have done very little to modernise the game at all and it makes it strangely refreshing to play compared to most modern fighters. The combos are extremely short, the character builds are mostly very simple and the game is entirely focused on patient, careful neutral game play and making big decisions about how to use your resources and when to take risks.

It's really really good but people raised on SFV and DBFZ will find it extremely jarring. Even for myself and my fellow grumpy old men it's been a big adjustment but I love it. The damage output is absolutely obscene in the style of old school fighters, every decision and move is extremely dangerous, every big read is hugely rewarding. You can have rounds that go 99 seconds and are palm-sweatingly tense for the duration because a mistake can literally lead to 70% of your health gone in one go. It doesn't have long intricate combos but my god it is a man's game.

 

Also props to SNK for the free season pass! No props for the rubbish lobby system and bare bones tutorial. The majority of fighting games are still SO BAD at explaining now only how their game works but how fighting games work in general. This one is no exception.

 

Yoshitora has a special move that he is only able to use if, over the course of the entire match, he has connected with each of his other special moves first. The move list has the input for the move and a note that says says "use after other special moves hit". So we were flapping about like idiots trying to rapidly input the move straight after a special move hits, thinking it was a follow up or something. It took a Youtube tutorial video to figure it out and that is inexcusable.

 

That said, I like the design simplicity of it all on the whole. I like universal inputs for all the supers and simple controls for dodge, deflect and rage mode/rage super. Always been a fan of Just Defend as a mechanic also. It's very intuitive and makes blocking more of an active option than a passive one. The character builds are nicely streamlined and straightforward. You can learn all of your character's tools and basic combo/punish options very quickly and move on to the good stuff: when/how/why to use them.

 

The three button tap rage super is one of the most terrifying things I've had to deal with in a fighting game. Popping that to close out round 3 is so close to a checkmate situation. You have to do basically nothing, but if you get thrown they can combo into it anyway. As the attacker though, the fast input means you can very easily be baited into using it. Also if you cash it in early and DON'T have it for the endgame it's such a huge disadvantage. Resource management overall seems very well implemented and is in keeping with every decision being a massive commitment. The rage explosion is so interesting. It's a defensive burst, an offensive burst, it's X-Factor and it gives you access to a near-instant super. So versatile and so powerful, devastating to the opponent if you get maximum value out of it, devastating to yourself if you waste it.

 

One of the most hype things we had when playing last night was my friend activating it, dashing up, grabbing me, then I rage explode after the grab to stop him combo-ing his rage super, then I dash up to HIM to threaten the grab, he jumps to avoid the grab, I anti-air the jump with my rage super. I don't think I blinked during this entire sequence, it was awesome.

So far I'm playing Charlotte. Super dry full screen, pokey pokey mid range, annoying slides, she is basically Rose and is right inside my comfort zone. Want to learn Kyoshiro next but I need to get much more familiar with the basics first. Weirdo characters come later. He is amazing though, I love him.

Very fun game. Clean, un-cluttered, easy to pick up but very difficult to play well. Like it a lot.

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7 hours ago, ghosted said:

Dashing Heavy Slash does great damage and seems ridiculously safe considering the norm

 

I've just had a little mess around in training mode and to add to this, his dashing medium also seems very safe and hits low so you could potentially get an annoying mix-up going by dashing in, stopping short then doing his rangy and apparently fairly risk-free overhead instead.

 

This character definitely fits the bill for someone to learn the game with, I think. Simple game plan and really encourages you to engage with the defensive mechanics. Crazy damage on some stuff too: jump-in HS>cr. MS>H. DP (which isn't really a DP, but whatever) does over 500 :blink:. Struggling to see why you'd ever use the light and medium versions of the 'DP' though, neither of them will combo after a light as far as I can tell. I can't figure out the utility of the mashing move either - maybe to create some distance after a bounce back?

 

I'm good if he's got a really small pool of useful moves though, just makes it easier to concentrate on the basics.

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Apparently this has sold out on PS4 in Japan (physical). I had a look on base.com and Amazon uk and they have sold out too so it's either selling well or the first run was tiny!

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On 29/06/2019 at 22:08, Flockheart said:

Apparently this has sold out on PS4 in Japan (physical). I had a look on base.com and Amazon uk and they have sold out too so it's either selling well or the first run was tiny!

 

Ordered it from game collection a couple of days ago, so might be worth a look on there.

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It's both frustrating and entertaining seeing the Twitch chat for this game. Watched some of the CEO top 8 and saw Justin Wong calmly TamTam standing M'ing the competition to death. They were all complaining about how boring the game is, how it needs oki/pressure/mix ups, how it needs combos etc. Then something did 70% and they lost their shit.

 

Personally I've always enjoyed watching a neutral-focused match in any fighting game, but for those who don't you really need to play this first to understand it. The pressure and tension you normally feel when you're knocked down or at frame disadvantage in other games, you feel that for the ENTIRE match in this game. Every single second of it is tense as hell because you are incredibly aware of the danger. It's like the opening neutral of a Mahvel game, except it doesn't end after a hit and one of you starts running your bullshit, instead you have to stay in that terrifying ultra-cagey neutral for the whole fight. 

 

One of the things I love about Killer Instinct is that the combo/breaker system means there is no point in the match where you switch off. You can't settle in and land your bnb combo without thinking about it, and as the defender taking the hit you have to be on high alert to look for patterns/breaker opportunities.  SamSho has that quality in spades, there is no down time in the round at all. You are on the highest alert for the entire match because you can get MURDERED at any given second. It is the polar opposite of boring and it's a real shame this is lost on so many viewers. 

 

Such a great game for practising so many important transferable skills too. Obviously footsies and neutral is a big one, but I'd say having optimised/max damage punishes is more important here than almost any other game. If you get a big opening and you get 30% damage on the opponent when you could have had 70% that is a catastrophic error and you will be very lucky to get a chance to make up for it. Your reactions have to be so on point as well. It's also a great workout for practising the end game life and death scenario because you need to be at that level of readiness for the whole fight in this game. 
 

It's a good game, I like it. 

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Had a first to 15 offline against a friend last night. Still playing Charlotte but he's switched from Yoshitora to Jubei.

 

The neutral game between those two is really good fun.

 

If we both fireball at full screen at the same time our fireballs will meet and they clash.

 

If we're a bit closer my fireball won't start up fully and his will win.

 

If he fireballs at long/mid range and I'm in neutral I can hop over his fireball with my standing kick, but if he does the heavy fireball it takes longer to come out and has a bigger hitbox so the timing for me is  totally different.

 

If he jumps at mid-close range as I fire my fireball he can punish my recovery. However, Charlotte can hold the button down to keep the fireball in place, which will anti-air his jump. With this in mind I can release it at numerous different timings depending on his spacing/habits/rhythm.

 

If I jump at mid-close range I can punish his fireball. If he reads that he can do his anti-air counter and hit me for 50% damage.

 

If he jumps from further out and my fireball has recovered I can dragon punch him.

 

*THEN* I have my bayonet lunge long range stabby move that goes mid/full screen depending on which version. The full screen one takes the longest to start up, but if I read/predict a fireball I can either stuff it before he throws it or I can trade with the damage on the trade being in my favour. However, if he reads *THAT* and jumps then the bayonet lunge has crazy long recovery and he gets a full jump in combo.

 

And that's just one aspect of the full/mid range game between the two characters. I keep people saying how basic the game is because it doesn't have combos but it's complicated in all the right ways.

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Impulse purchase! The game is very satisfying and it feels like a proper game. This days fighting games feel more like lifestyle choices rather than games!

I could not have any online fight but that is probably something to do with my landladys router. I must convince her that the powerline adapter is harmless.:lol:

The lack of combo system is really special, I (we?) tend to get instant satisfaction out of the combo system, in the end games like bbtag feel more like a rhythm game than a fighting game. This feels more like a "mans game".

 

 

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Played through story mode with Haohmaru last night. Initial thoughts:

It all feels so beautifully chunky!

It looks and moves lovely too.

Enjoying the basic moveset, still need to understand the rules around rage and whatnot.

Fuck the final boss. 

 

So far, it's really hitting the spot that SFV couldn't reach. Looking forward to playing online once I've got back on PS+.

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This game is the White Stripes of fighting games.

I love it but I am abysmal.

Feel free to add me if you want to win a fight online.

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The first balance patch for this game was very good I must say. The universal changes (better recovery on dodge, more recovery on deflect if you whiff it, faster dashes) all improve the game without changing it too drastically. Dodge feels like a much more viable tool to escape mix ups now. You still don't recover fast enough to punish much but it gives you room to breathe and stick in a quick kick or jab to to break up the pressure, whereas before you would dodge but still be in the same bad situation afterwards.

 

Deflect is EXTREMELY rewarding if you're successful, so making that a bigger commitment to throw out makes a lot of sense.

 

Aside from that though, the character balance changes are almost all spot on to the point that players are barely complaining about anything. That's extremely unusual for any fighting game balance patch but so many of the changes make good sense and are difficult to argue with.

 

They've made the very bottom tier characters a hell of a lot stronger (Shiki and Kyoshiro in particular are -real characters now), they've toned done the really dumb stuff a lot (Genjuro) and the characters who were mid or upper mid tier have had their most ridiculous stuff nerfed a bit (Charlotte's standing kick) but mostly been left alone because it's fine for there to be good characters. You don't need to nerf everything that's strong, just fix anything game breaking (6 Genjuros in tournament top 8s) and give all the worst characters a leg up, and that's exactly what the patch has done.

 

The only disappointment for me is a couple of more bug-fixy type things they've left in. For example, Jubei has a parry special move that anti-airs any jumping bladed attack for about 50% damage. All jumping B and jumping C attacks in the game are affected by this. Except Darli Dagger's jumping B, which is somehow treated as a weaponless attack despite the move being a giant sword swing. As such, Jubei cannot anti-air parry it and so the match up is Darli doing jump B endlessly until she wins. Stuff like that is clearly not intended and it would have been nice to see them tidy it up. I'm wondering if they actually know about that one.

 

They've also done quite a lot with the online (like putting a rematch option in casual lobbies, FFS!) but that was more than needed as the launch version had some of the worst lobby functionality I've ever seen in a fighting game. I don't know why this isn't a top priority to get right in 2019. It boggles the mind that they keep putting out games where this is so slapdash and then patch it afterwards. A fighting game can die within months of release and a shitty online experience can be a massive factor in that.

 

On the plus side though they are doing DLC absolutely right. Free season pass for early adopters (and a clear indication of which characters you'll be getting ahead of time) and a free of charge character in September for all players as a nice surprise. Good stuff.

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My import copy of the switch version turned up today. It’s not bad (unlike me, I’m not that great).

 

Visually it’s alright, a little blurry/soft in areas which is a surprise as I was expecting fidelity on par with Switch Dragonball Fighterz.

 

It’s all in English (bar the speech but it’s subtitled which is probably better), too.

 

 

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Oddly, the box and game card both say ‘Samurai Spirits’ whilst in game (and on the home screen icon), it’s called ‘Samurai Showdown’. From what I can tell - and assuming it doesn’t have English speech - the UK version (or possibly Hong Kong) is on the card as well and picked up by the language setting of my switch/profile. Can’t access the eshop though or redeem points, that’s locked out.

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The last boss in this is the worst type of game design.

 

She has crazy powerful attacks, your characters moves don't do anywhere near the damage that they should to her, and she seems to go extra aggressive when you get the upper hand. Armoured against everything you can throw at her can't be thrown, yet can intrupt all your attacks without penalty. 

 

Really goes against the pace and feeling of the rest of the game. 

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I have figured out that boss now. Her extra armour in her "attack" form can easily be cut through with the move that everyone has that knocks their weapon out of their hand. This instantly puts her into her vulnerable state. 

 

In another matter has anyone else encountered a bug in the Xbox One version where once you complete the game it goes back to the title screen but no button seems to work? The only way to get out of this is to use the actual guide button to reset to the home screen and start to load another title before quitting out and re loading Samurai Shodown. If it makes a difference I'm using the Xbox One X and have tried to reinstall the disc but the problem persists. 

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I'm still playing this and still loving it. The slow considerate pace is so different for this generation and I love the general style and atmosphere of the game. It's amazing how it's respectful of the originals but manages to feel new and different. 

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I would say initially keep your distance and go for a character with range like Tam Tam. Learn how to use the various special moves when your bar is filled of which there is 3 main types. The first is the forward then quarter circle back followed by kick and hard slash. As far as I can see if this doesn't hit then you can't do it again till your bar refills, but if it connects it takes off a big chunk of health on your opponent. 

 

The second is the weapon disarm which is always quarter circle towards with med and hard slash. If this misses you can use it over and over until your bar drains. Usually takes off a good chunk of health too (but not as much as the above). 

 

The final type is pressing all 3 slash at once which makes the screen go tinted. Once you do this you have sacrificed your bar for the whole match so be careful how you use it. It is effective till your bar drains and if you press all three slash again then you do a huge attack which takes off most of your opponents bar. What many people overlook though is that your attacks are more powerful in this state and although it varies from character to character it's well worth experimenting. 

 

Other than that remember that this isn't really a combo based game so don't be afraid to bide your time and try and goad your opponent into an attack. If you can master parry  (which I can't) then you can leave them open to all sorts. That's a quarter circle towards then weak and med slash. 

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