Jump to content
rllmuk
footle

Google Stadia

Recommended Posts

18 minutes ago, Uzi said:

 

There appears to be confusion of whether you can connect to stadia and tap into resources beyond a fixed hardware set

 

The key example is when crackdown 3 was originally announced and MS said it would tap into their azure servers for processing power beyond the specification of the hardware you were playing on


Got it. 
 

We’re all agreed that’s not what cloud computing is though, right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Popo said:


Got it. 
 

We’re all agreed that’s not what cloud computing is though, right?


cloud computing can just be renting a machine, virtual or otherwise, somewhere else. That’s all it ever is - sometimes you’re renting part of a much bigger machine and you can scale up because there are so many resources in play, but you pay for that.

There are other variations - eg where you’re accessing services that automatically scale to demand across a cluster. I don’t see where that really helps gaming outside of stats services and websites and the like (and to some extent the streaming of flight simulator assets to your local machine), because you’re adding lots of relatively high latency “function/service” calls. Far better to basically rent virtual machines with zero contention, at which point you may as well rent physical machines.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've just assumed that these are virtual machines, like a lot of big companies run now on giant server farms - they don't physically have 100 separate PC's lined up and users fill them up till there are none available.

 

We all have virtual desktops where I work, and they come in different specs of memory, processor etc but all run in the same giant server farms.

 

Stadia isn't a rack of PC's and whenever somebody new signs up they build a new one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Uzi said:

 

There appears to be confusion of whether you can connect to stadia and tap into resources beyond a fixed hardware set

 

The key example is when crackdown 3 was originally announced and MS said it would tap into their azure servers for processing power beyond the specification of the hardware you were playing on

 

Just because you're connecting to a piece of hardware remotely doesn't mean you get access to beyond that hardware 

 

My gut feeling based off how Cloud works is that a developer can tailor the resources they need (in effect, the VM resource parameters) to the game's needs. This still means that the "client" resources are fixed when you launch the game - you don't really want to have to deal with the horrible complexity of truly volatile resources. This approach contrasts to MS where you effectively have two choices of resource profile to hit for client code, Scarlett and Xbox One S, and this constraint exists even when that code is running remote. 

 

So the Stadia marketing suggests to me that developers can tailor the resource profiles of both client and server. They talk about multi-gpu support as an example of this. How they price this to developers will be a key factor for adoption - it's not just technical capability that will be a factor here (e.g. there is presumably additive cost to hosting multi-gpu that would be for the developer to consider the pros and cons of). Also worth pointing out the virtualization is typically used today to carve physical machines up rather than bind them together. I'd expect this to be used for low resolution gaming (e.g. mobile).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, Hass said:

 

My gut feeling based off how Cloud works is that a developer can tailor the resources they need (in effect, the VM resource parameters) to the game's needs. This still means that the "client" resources are fixed when you launch the game - you don't really want to have to deal with the horrible complexity of truly volatile resources. This approach contrasts to MS where you effectively have two choices of resource profile to hit for client code, Scarlett and Xbox One S, and this constraint exists even when that code is running remote. 

 

So the Stadia marketing suggests to me that developers can tailor the resource profiles of both client and server. They talk about multi-gpu support as an example of this. How they price this to developers will be a key factor for adoption - it's not just technical capability that will be a factor here (e.g. there is presumably additive cost to hosting multi-gpu that would be for the developer to consider the pros and cons of). Also worth pointing out the virtualization is typically used today to carve physical machines up rather than bind them together. I'd expect this to be used for low resolution gaming (e.g. mobile).

I dont disagree with any of that in theory but I can't see any dev using the servers yet as anything other than fairly mid to high range pcs to run a small number of standard games. The main advantage would be in multi player as already discussed or bypassing console restrictions such as fps a la destiny 2

 

I guess it  is whether you have faith if Google will take that further without having the sales or user base to really ramp it up.  I hope they do as any USP other than you get access to nice hardware with no worrying about installs or patches with minimal lag would be actually differentiating. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People are getting their buzzwords confused in this thread. What Stadia does is The Cloud ("other people's computers"). What Crackdown 3 was supposed to do is "distributed computing". 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Anne Summers said:

What Crackdown 3 was supposed to do is "distributed computing"

It doesn't help that Microsoft back then kept referring to it as "the magic of the cloud" - but thanks for clearing it up :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do think it'd be absolutely lovely to think that each time someone bought a Stadia, some little bugger at Google had to rush out and pick up an Xbox from the local store and hook it up to the others. 

 

Just the thought that Google conjured up this whole idea and actually have no idea what they're doing is clearly improbable, but makes me smile inanely.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, JoeK said:

I do think it'd be absolutely lovely to think that each time someone bought a Stadia, some little bugger at Google had to rush out and pick up an Xbox from the local store and hook it up to the others. 

 

Just the thought that Google conjured up this whole idea and actually have no idea what they're doing is clearly improbable, but makes me smile inanely.

I would have thought it is like that, they’ll scale the hardware to meet their estimated demand. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That’s how all these systems work, they’re basically leasing a console-on-a-board to people remotely and counting on having more consoles than their peak user count. In that respect it’s a fundamentally different proposition to Netflix I suppose, where they can exploit the generic content delivery capacity that umpteen different service providers make available.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Stanley said:

It could cause real headaches for them come a big release without the need to preorder and the expectation from customers to play immediately.

In theory yes, but I think they are going to be ok on this one.

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 04/12/2019 at 22:03, Uzi said:

 

There appears to be confusion of whether you can connect to stadia and tap into resources beyond a fixed hardware set

 

They had a tech demo at the original GDC reveal showing multi-GPU usage (it was used for enhanced fluid physics).

 

Quote

Google says that this hardware can be stacked, that CPU and GPU compute is 'elastic', so multiple instances of this hardware can be used to create more ambitious games.

 

They also demoed another tech demo which did what Crackdown 3 originally promised to do too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I cancelled my preorder but I’m just bout to pull trigger again convince me yes/no is it worth £120 ? I don’t have Chromecast so that’s one reason in the yes camp 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm really enjoying mine as a glimpse of the future - it feels like something all new to me. Even firing up instantly the admittedly unimpressive farming sim and tomb raider freebies demonstrated just how friction free this can become.

 

I've been quite enjoying grid - had a lovely session yesterday driving a classic mini at full pelt round a san fran city course at dusk - looked and handled beautifully and was flawless to play.

  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, denisb said:

I cancelled my preorder but I’m just bout to pull trigger again convince me yes/no is it worth £120 ? I don’t have Chromecast so that’s one reason in the yes camp 

I can't see how it's possibly worth it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess you have to weigh up whether there's enough games on there that you can't get on what you have. For me, it's Football Manager. That's just not worth £150. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@denisb I preordered based on the idea that I could probably sell the Chromecast and controller if I didn’t get on with it probably for about half of the bundle cost, and I was interested in the tech.
 

I don’t regret it, and I now get a quick blast on Destiny much more often than I do on the PS4.

 

Howver... I do think the games are a bit too expensive.  I can’t quite get my head around paying console prices for what I can basically already get on my PS4 (though I do like the idea of Grid).  And although I’m impressed by how small it is, input lag is definitely there, and that may be a deal breaker for you.

 

I’m hanging on in there to see what the next batch of monthly games brings (I’ve never played an Assassin’s Creed game, if you’re listening Google) and to see if anything comes of the cloud / scalable processing power concept.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Falls below the Xbox One X version and even the PS4 Pro, doesn't come remotely close to the PC version. 1080p/30fps with console level settings. Again Stadia offers visuals below the X, and completely negates the idea being able to play an expensive über PC version of a game at high settings at 4k. What a treat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Similar results for Metro Exodus today too. The consistent message from the only outlet bothering to keep up with the service is that it isn’t as good as you’ll get on a console. However unfair that take may be that’s probably not what they were hoping for.


They’ve got to get the mainstream/convenience service out before the middle of next year because its high-performance bonafides are only going to look worse as next-gen systems start to get demoed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The idea was for Stadia to deliver an high-end PC experience. Given all the visual extras of the PC version of Metro, all the fancy stuff that isn't possible on current consoles - not even on a Pro or X - it would have been an ideal game to prove that Stadia can offer an experience akin to a 2000 quid PC. That it's just Xbox One X level visuals with far, far worse performance, you have to wonder where all those promised FLOPS have gone.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey, as long as google still gets paid for starting the threat...


 

HOLY SHIT MY PHONE JUST AUTOCORRECTED FOOTLE TO GOOGLE!!!

 

 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 07/12/2019 at 15:35, Mike1812 said:

I guess you have to weigh up whether there's enough games on there that you can't get on what you have. For me, it's Football Manager. That's just not worth £150. 

It's not worth it I agree. However football manager is one of those games that just might take up 600+ hours of your life...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FM can run on very old hardware (I am pretty sure my 10 year old laptop would do a passable job) although obviously the idea of playing it on a chromebook is quite compelling. Also if Stadia was super-powerful, running it with all the leagues running would be a strong pitch too. Not sure how fast it is in reality. 

 

The downside is that you're missing out on the custom skins, graphics packs, edited databases etc, which is a big loss, akin the to switch version in a way. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Mr. Gerbik said:

You have to wonder where all those promised FLOPS have gone.

 

 

 

It's weird isn't it? The running theme through all the reviews seems to imply that the devs are struggling to get performance out of the gpu which you'd have thought was the easy bit once the streaming stuff was all in place. I mean, they've shown that the core streaming tech is doing 4k 60fps so it's just weird that the gpu seems to have the handbrake on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People, i have the following PC, i9-9900k, 2080ti, 32gig 3200mhz ram, samsung 970pro nvme...yes...i know...why am i using THIS to play FM! ..."but i digress" ;)

 

FM20 STILL RUNS LIKE SHIT!...and that's because the game engine itself simply does not use the resources available to it! It only really uses ONE core!?!

If they actually designed it to spread across, it would be amazing on one of those high core count AMD systems, but it doesn't!  It needs a complete rewrite of how it uses CPU. end of.

 

To address the "flops" thing, its 10 AMD flops, its a Vega56 equivalent (gtx 1070 ish)

  • Upvote 1
  • Empathy 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. Use of this website is subject to our Privacy Policy, Terms of Use, and Guidelines.