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Is the wireless an issue because people are still stuck on g/n? I appreciate the steam links run locally but I never had any problem with them running wireless on AC.

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It will be a variety of reasons, but I think the main one is actually most people's WiFi being a single AP solution. That means people are sharing the transmission medium so the stream gets hit by other users (wife starts Netflix etc) but also pure contention with other WiFi networks in your area. If you live in a metropolitan area, you probably won't get stable latency over any wireless solution purely because of frequency contention. This is much worse on 2.4ghz than 5ghz though.

 

I think the BT partnership for Stadia recently announced is interesting because IIRC, BT were the only supplier attempting to differentiate on "whole house Wi-Fi" which meant they were giving out mesh APs with a powerline backhaul. That's a very good solution for low latency services like Stadia.

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11 hours ago, phresh said:

Is the wireless an issue because people are still stuck on g/n? I appreciate the steam links run locally but I never had any problem with them running wireless on AC.

 

Well running locally means that the total lag might well be below noticeable even with the wifi modifier.

 

It's like when people say "Stadia is fine because its lag is the same as a controller" forgetting that even when that's true, the controller lag doesn't actually go away.

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On 22/01/2020 at 09:58, Hass said:

Before you shell out on an adapter I can give it a go on my Macbook over ethernet and see if I get a steady 1080@60; I've only really used Chromecast and the Stadia controller extensively. 

 

I'll give that a go tonight.

 

I went out and got an adapter anyway, thanks. And yeah, it does make a significant difference. There's little to no artefacts now and the big framerate glitches - that were more like mini freezes - seem to be gone. It's smoother too. I wouldn't say it's rock solid 60, but it's too not far off (in what I've been playing anyway). Crucible especially felt pretty spot on. Haven't done anything yet that's full of lots of PvE enemies or graphical effects, so I guess that might feel different. Early days, but so far, when wired, this has been pretty much as good as I could've hoped for, considering I'm playing on a MBP and DS4.

 

Did you notice any differences when you went from your Chromecast and Stadia controller to a laptop?

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2 hours ago, Gorf King said:

 

I went out and got an adapter anyway, thanks. And yeah, it does make a significant difference. There's little to no artefacts now and the big framerate glitches - that were more like mini freezes - seem to be gone. It's smoother too. I wouldn't say it's rock solid 60, but it's too not far off (in what I've been playing anyway). Crucible especially felt pretty spot on. Haven't done anything yet that's full of lots of PvE enemies or graphical effects, so I guess that might feel different. Early days, but so far, when wired, this has been pretty much as good as I could've hoped for, considering I'm playing on a MBP and DS4.

 

Did you notice any differences when you went from your Chromecast and Stadia controller to a laptop?

 

Glad it seems to have worked for you. Sorry, I had a migraine last night and my brain went into some spectacular meltdown so couldn't test out but I'll give this a go tonight!

 

The areas I've found are really night day are the increasingly busy things like Menagerie and Forge. It just keeps going and nothing on screen seems to throw it which is lovely. I'm left wondering if Bungie are now really struggling with the 4k versions on the consoles because of where they've chosen to take the game (more enemies, bigger spaces etc.).

 

It'll be interesting to see how Chrome holds up as they release 4k@60 later in the quarter. This will only the upscaled 1080p for D2 though unless Bungie push out some improvements.

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February’s Pro games are Gylt and Metro Exodus
 

 

(Bah, I was hoping for the other Tomb Raider...)

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3 hours ago, HarryBizzle said:

Metro Exodus is lovely. Looks glorious in 4K HDR, too. 

 

What about at Stadiares?

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Here's a lols. Stadia launched 60 days ago, it's last news update or any update about it from Google re it's future  was 39 days ago. Looks like it's DOA. 

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On 23/01/2020 at 16:20, Gorf King said:

Did you notice any differences when you went from your Chromecast and Stadia controller to a laptop?

 

I finally gave this a go and the results weren't good on Chrome for me even over ethernet. I got quite a lot of skips and juttering, definitely not the experience I'm getting through CCU. I've actually got 2 CCUs, 1 connected to a 1080p TV and the other to a 4k TV. They both stream Destiny 2 absolutely seamless for me so there's something amiss here in the Chrome implementation. Which is a shame because that's what all the buddy passes use </facepalm.gif>

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Yeah, it still had some judders for me and wasn't solid 60, but it was noticeably better than over wifi. But I went back to PS4 in the end mainly because of player population - I had real issues getting matchmade, even in strikes and the Nightfall.

 

I also had a couple of Crucible games where my controller went skew whiff and wouldn't respond properly for the rest of the match. Not sure what that was about, but it was a bit of a bummer. Starting a new game sorted it out, but a few minutes into the next it happened again, and then on a strike immediately after that. A Chrome reboot seemed to fix it.

 

I still think it's fairly remarkable that it does what it does, but on my limited experience I don't think it's ready for prime time yet. It'd be a really bad idea to introduce the free tier at this point, because I don't imagine the free players will be using a Chromecast Ultra hardwired to the internet and the official controller. In which case, they might conclude it doesn't really work as advertised even at 1080p.

 

I'm going to give Metro Exodus a decent go and see how that pans out.

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They're in a bind, as without the promised free tier, multiplayer games will never get the populations they need to be viable, and the all important early adopters will abandon it, probably killing it forever.  Putting out the free tier without it working properly on all hardware will also kill it, but for different reasons.


I guess it goes to show that the release early and iterate model of 'proper' software doesn't really work in the AAA video game world.

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13 hours ago, Gorf King said:

Yeah, it still had some judders for me and wasn't solid 60, but it was noticeably better than over wifi. But I went back to PS4 in the end mainly because of player population - I had real issues getting matchmade, even in strikes and the Nightfall.

 

I also had a couple of Crucible games where my controller went skew whiff and wouldn't respond properly for the rest of the match. Not sure what that was about, but it was a bit of a bummer. Starting a new game sorted it out, but a few minutes into the next it happened again, and then on a strike immediately after that. A Chrome reboot seemed to fix it.

 

I still think it's fairly remarkable that it does what it does, but on my limited experience I don't think it's ready for prime time yet. It'd be a really bad idea to introduce the free tier at this point, because I don't imagine the free players will be using a Chromecast Ultra hardwired to the internet and the official controller. In which case, they might conclude it doesn't really work as advertised even at 1080p.

 

I'm going to give Metro Exodus a decent go and see how that pans out.

 

I just gave Chrome another go but this time through my MacBook Pro (previously I tried a Chromebook) and this experience was excellent. No frame stutters, very solid, zero latency. The only downer 1080p looking a bit blurry to my eyes when scaled to the native res. of the MBP. Hopefully better support for different resolutions is on the roadmap.

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23 minutes ago, Ste Pickford said:

They're in a bind, as without the promised free tier, multiplayer games will never get the populations they need to be viable, and the all important early adopters will abandon it, probably killing it forever.  Putting out the free tier without it working properly on all hardware will also kill it, but for different reasons.


I guess it goes to show that the release early and iterate model of 'proper' software doesn't really work in the AAA video game world.

 

100% agree. The free tier needs to be a solid demonstration of the platform but it seems to be a roll of the dice right now. 

 

I guess a challenge they have is the incredibly wide variety of BIOS's, OS's, drivers etc. that can all have an impact on a highly latency sensitive pipe and you need to get this out into the wild to get the exposure. This all implies to me that the Chrome support might have been better placed to be labelled Beta.

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6 minutes ago, Hass said:

 

100% agree. The free tier needs to be a solid demonstration of the platform but it seems to be a roll of the dice right now. 

 

I guess a challenge they have is the incredibly wide variety of BIOS's, OS's, drivers etc. that can all have an impact on a highly latency sensitive pipe and you need to get this out into the wild to get the exposure. This all implies to me that the Chrome support might have been better placed to be labelled Beta.

 

I think the single biggest problem, on top of all the hardware issues you mention, is wifi.  It's just too flaky, variable, poorly set up in too many cases.  It's OK saying use ethernet instead, or diagnosing faults with someone's wifi setup. That just about works for people on this forum (who are exactly the sort of people who also own all the consoles or high end PCs as well), but if they want the service to take off big time, it's mostly going to be running on poor quality, badly set up domestic wifi connections through crappy ISP routers.

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Even if all that technical stuff was sorted they STILL have the huge issue of no compelling content yet.

 

Also, just announced/leaked yesterday that GeForce Now paid tier is going to be $4.99 / month and you will have access to Steam/ Epic stores, plus xCloud has the Xbox content, I'm not sure why any user would pick Stadia right now considering the competition (on the horizon).

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6 minutes ago, Ste Pickford said:

 

I think the single biggest problem, on top of all the hardware issues you mention, is wifi.  It's just too flaky, variable, poorly set up in too many cases.  It's OK saying use ethernet instead, or diagnosing faults with someone's wifi setup. That just about works for people on this forum (who are exactly the sort of people who also own all the consoles or high end PCs as well), but if they want the service to take off big time, it's mostly going to be running on poor quality, badly set up domestic wifi connections through crappy ISP routers.

 

Yup, also true. WiFi and home networking in general have historically been optimised for throughput rather than latency. This is basically the first service that demands high quality networking gear and a correct installation to get the best out of it. I wonder if this is where the BT Broadband partnership has come from as their mesh wifi setup is likely something they can standardise a service around. 

 

I also think they need to urgently come back and service the enthusiast end of the market by delivering on 4k60. The reality is that the service over ethernet can clearly replace a high-end gaming rig but it looks like the chokepoint now is simply the GPUs they're running the service on. Now that they've shown it works in the right conditions, they should make sure that the backend rigs are always so powerful that they always outperform consoles on performance whilst trumping PC on stability. Most enthusiast gamers won't see ethernet as a deal-breaker IMO, they've almost certainly already got their rigs hooked up over ethernet. But they will see a compromised performance as a deal breaker and today, both D2 and RDR2 and Metro Exodus are all compromising performance wise seemingly for reasons nothing to do with streaming. 

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Just now, hub2 said:

Even if all that technical stuff was sorted they STILL have the huge issue of no compelling content yet.

 

Also, just announces/leaked yesterday that GeForce Now paid tier is going to be $4.99 / month and you will have access to Steam/ Epic stores, plus xCloud has the Xbox content, I'm not sure why any user would pick Stadia right now considering the competition (on the horizon).

 

I agreed, I think the Stadia Pro subscription would only look competitive if every one of the 26 (?) games on the platform were included in the sub. If they then got titles like Doom Eternal onto that then I'd see that driving subscriptions too, especially with time limited exclusive status. 

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11 hours ago, Hass said:

I just gave Chrome another go but this time through my MacBook Pro (previously I tried a Chromebook) and this experience was excellent. No frame stutters, very solid, zero latency. The only downer 1080p looking a bit blurry to my eyes when scaled to the native res. of the MBP. Hopefully better support for different resolutions is on the roadmap.

 

Yup, it only looked decent when I used a native 1080p external panel. On the MBP's display it was very soft with the scaling.

 

This is the underlying problem, along with small user population, for me: I need a cable to my router, and a cable to my external monitor, for it to work even acceptably. It's just not easy to get the right setup, and certainly won't appeal to casual users or people on the move. In its current guise it just can't attract the market it's seeking. At the casual end it's just too much of a faff, and it's not really mobile or play anywhere. At the high end, it's not giving you better performance than a PC (or even equal to it). Which means that the problem of low user population is highly unlikely to be solved. According to Charlemagne, less than 1% of the Destiny population plays on Stadia, and it feels like it.

 

Ironically, for something that ostensibly has little to no hardware requirements, I think the actual hardware requirements are going to kill this thing. It's far easier and more convenient just to plug a console in. And if the new MS/Sony duo deliver 60fps at a good resolution later this year, Stadia's in real trouble. Well, it's in trouble anyway I think, but you know what I mean.

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1 minute ago, Hass said:

 

I agreed, I think the Stadia Pro subscription would only look competitive if every one of the 26 (?) games on the platform were included in the sub. If they then got titles like Doom Eternal onto that then I'd see that driving subscriptions too, especially with time limited exclusive status. 

 

Lol, just wait a few months, they're cannibalising their own store by adding two new games every month from the existing catalog. As a current pro subscriber (thanks again Hass) I'm not sure why I should buy any game as it may be included next month or the month after!

 

I also think they should do an Apple Arcade, maybe stack the pro with premium indie games?

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There are still only 26 games on the service? None of which, as far as I can see, are exclusive? And very few (three, I think?) of which are actually new games?

 

26?

 

Wow.

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43 minutes ago, Ste Pickford said:

 

I think the single biggest problem, on top of all the hardware issues you mention, is wifi.  It's just too flaky, variable, poorly set up in too many cases.  It's OK saying use ethernet instead, or diagnosing faults with someone's wifi setup. That just about works for people on this forum (who are exactly the sort of people who also own all the consoles or high end PCs as well), but if they want the service to take off big time, it's mostly going to be running on poor quality, badly set up domestic wifi connections through crappy ISP routers.

 

Yup. Wifi is going to be the single biggest issue for streaming games going forward. At home I could barely Steam stream from my PC to my iPad on my old router wifi. On my new mesh? Like butter. Most people are not going to have good wifi.

 

Ethernet is potentially a big issue too given the uptake of powerline ethernet which can be very spotty as well.

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12 minutes ago, deKay said:

There are still only 26 games on the service? None of which, as far as I can see, are exclusive? And very few (three, I think?) of which are actually new games?

 

26?

 

Wow.

 

This is the current list:

 

Spoiler

A.O.T. 2: Final Battle
Assassin's Creed Odyssey - Stadia Ultimate Edition
Assassin's Creed® Odyssey
Borderlands®3
Borderlands®3 Deluxe Edition
Borderlands®3 Super Deluxe Edition
Darksiders Genesis
Destiny 2
Destiny 2: The Collection
DRAGON BALL XENOVERSE 2
Farming Simulator 19
Farming Simulator 19 Platinum Edition
FINAL FANTASY XV
Football Manager 2020
GRID
GRID Ultimate Edition
GYLT
Just Dance 2020®
Kine
Metro Exodus
Metro Exodus - Gold Edition
Mortal Kombat 11
Mortal Kombat 11 Premium Edition
NBA 2K20
NBA 2K20 Digital Deluxe
NBA 2K20 Legend Edition
RAGE 2
RAGE 2: Deluxe Edition
Red Dead Redemption 2
Red Dead Redemption 2: Launch Edition
Red Dead Redemption 2: Special Edition
Red Dead Redemption 2: Ultimate Edition
Rise of the Tomb Raider: 20 Year Celebration
SAMURAI SHODOWN (Standard Ver.)
Shadow of the Tomb Raider Definitive Edition
Thumper
Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Breakpoint
Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Breakpoint - Gold Edition
Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Breakpoint : Ultimate Edition
Tomb Raider: Definitive Edition
Trials Rising
Trials Rising - Digital Gold Edition
Wolfenstein: Youngblood

 

GYLT is exclusive.

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Just now, hub2 said:

 

This is the current list:

 

  Hide contents

A.O.T. 2: Final Battle
Assassin's Creed Odyssey - Stadia Ultimate Edition
Assassin's Creed® Odyssey
Borderlands®3
Borderlands®3 Deluxe Edition
Borderlands®3 Super Deluxe Edition
Darksiders Genesis
Destiny 2
Destiny 2: The Collection
DRAGON BALL XENOVERSE 2
Farming Simulator 19
Farming Simulator 19 Platinum Edition
FINAL FANTASY XV
Football Manager 2020
GRID
GRID Ultimate Edition
GYLT
Just Dance 2020®
Kine
Metro Exodus
Metro Exodus - Gold Edition
Mortal Kombat 11
Mortal Kombat 11 Premium Edition
NBA 2K20
NBA 2K20 Digital Deluxe
NBA 2K20 Legend Edition
RAGE 2
RAGE 2: Deluxe Edition
Red Dead Redemption 2
Red Dead Redemption 2: Launch Edition
Red Dead Redemption 2: Special Edition
Red Dead Redemption 2: Ultimate Edition
Rise of the Tomb Raider: 20 Year Celebration
SAMURAI SHODOWN (Standard Ver.)
Shadow of the Tomb Raider Definitive Edition
Thumper
Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Breakpoint
Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Breakpoint - Gold Edition
Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Breakpoint : Ultimate Edition
Tomb Raider: Definitive Edition
Trials Rising
Trials Rising - Digital Gold Edition
Wolfenstein: Youngblood

 

 

I know. That's 26 games.

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Farming Sim, Destiny 2 and 2 of the Tomb Raiders have been freebies elsewhere too so that's not going to help.

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Mandatory Destiny correction post: the version of D2 on Stadia isn't the free-to-play New Light version that's free elsewhere. It's the full collection, including last year's Forsaken expansions and further DLC, and this year's Shadowkeep and the rest of this year's season passes. Probably about fifty quid if you bought them on another platform. 

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