Buying your games on the digital stores of poorer/cheap regions.

[dreamylittledream]

9 minutes ago, dumpster said:

Games may be cheaper in Norway but you don't live in Norway. Pretending that you do in order to save money is obtaining goods through deception. It is a criminal offence. As is shoplifting, mugging and piracy.  If you want it, just buy it. If it is too expensive, wait a while. And if you can afford it, but pretend to be Norwegian to "stick it to the man" then you are obtaining goods by deception. Its obvious. 

 

By the way, if you follow this logic then why not pretend to be disabled too? You won't have to queue at Alton Towers. Pretend you have a terminal disease and the Make-a-Wish foundation will take you to Disneyland!  

 

You're not Norwegian, you're pretending that you are in order to get the benefits of living in that country that you are obviously not entitled to .

 

 

Did you just seriously suggest that changing my profile to Norway was illegal?

 

Oh boy...

[dumpster]

Base.com comply with the appropriate laws when doing business internationally. Their head office address is REAL.  If you could use your eShop account to buy your game from the country of your choice then that would be fair enough.  But people are giving a fake address to set up a fake account to fool the system. Like it or not, you're obtaining a product at a different price because you are pretending to live somewhere else. You are not paying the tax you are supposed to pay.  If you DO live in Norway then fill your boots. 

[dumpster]

1 minute ago, dreamylittledream said:

 

Did you just seriously suggest that changing my profile to Norway was illegal?

 

Oh boy...

Not illegal per se, but the only way you can buy from the Norwegian store is to give a fake address. You're lying to obtain the item for less money. That is illegal. 

[dreamylittledream]

Just now, dumpster said:

Not illegal per se, but the only way you can buy from the Norwegian store is to give a fake address. You're lying to obtain the item for less money. That is illegal. 

 

You do realise you don't need to change your address on the Nintendo e-shop?

 

It really is as simple as selecting what country you want your profile to be set to in a drop down menu.

 

Stop digging - there really is nothing to see here.  As far as Nintendo are concerned there is one region that you are resident in ('Europe' although this includes Russia and South Africa) and the company chooses to employ dynamic pricing within this.  Moving around within this is literally doing nothing amiss.

 

They do not want you to buy from other regions (the Americas, Japan) and block you from doing this.

[gossi the dog]

9 minutes ago, dumpster said:

Base.com comply with the appropriate laws when doing business internationally. Their head office address is REAL.  If you could use your eShop account to buy your game from the country of your choice then that would be fair enough.  But people are giving a fake address to set up a fake account to fool the system. Like it or not, you're obtaining a product at a different price because you are pretending to live somewhere else. You are not paying the tax you are supposed to pay.  If you DO live in Norway then fill your boots. 

 

They still sell grey imports, and everything below £15 in value gets sent from Switzerland. Sounds just as iffy to me.

[dumpster]

I'm using Norway as a sample place because someone mentioned it earlier. It is odd that Nintendo allows you to buy from any store by simply changing a menu option and in that scenario it doesn't make sense that the prices are different. But the thread is about all consoles and I know many of us have accounts on our PS4 and XBox systems for Japan and America and  the law hasn't kept up with the technology.  I would bet if it was tested in a court of law it would be seen as obtaining goods by deception, as long as the process involved giving a fake address.

[McCoy]

48 minutes ago, dumpster said:

It is as simple as this.

 

When you buy a game (or anything) you pay the cost of packaging, distribution, local sales taxes and so on. You are a UK citizen and you are buying the game at the UK price and there are many reasons that the price ends up being what it is.  

 

There are fiddles that allow you to obtain the game at a cheaper price by pretending you live in South Africa. But you don't live in South Africa. You are lying, exploiting a fiddle for your own gain. You're avoiding the tax. You think everyone else should pay full price while you mess around with fake addresses to get it all a bit cheaper.

 

Meanwhile, you are getting the product you want but the developers and publishers are earning less.  Goods are sold at the price the market will bear.  South African's wages are appropriate for the country they live in. UK games are priced at the level that people in the UK deem acceptable.  I can afford to buy that game. Sure, I can pretend I'm South African and save money. But I can hack my console and use PKG-J and get the game from the same servers and its cheaper still! In fact, its free!

 

So, well done, you found a loophole!  But you're not doing what you are supposed to be doing , you're exploiting a fiddle.  So why not take this logic to the next level and just pirate everything? It's exactly the same logic. You're exploiting a loophole that allows you to get the game for free while all those poor suckers pay full price.  

 

So in conclusion, no, don't use the online stores of other countries. You know it's a fiddle , we all know it is a fiddle. Just because Sony is still getting some money you think it's OK? No, you're cheating. Just because you read on the internet that it works doesn't mean you should do it.  Its like someone telling you the security gates at Poundland are not working, so you give them a few quid and walk out with whatever you want.

 

If you want it, pay the asking price. If it is too expensive, wait for a price drop. But don't set up a fake account , pretending you live somewhere else.

 

If you choose to neg this, you must explain why it is wrong. 

 

What's the difference of buying a Nintendo game from Amazon.com or buying a Nintendo game from the US EShop? 

 

 

[HarryBizzle]

8 minutes ago, dumpster said:

I'm using Norway as a sample place because someone mentioned it earlier. It is odd that Nintendo allows you to buy from any store by simply changing a menu option and in that scenario it doesn't make sense that the prices are different. But the thread is about all consoles and I know many of us have accounts on our PS4 and XBox systems for Japan and America and  the law hasn't kept up with the technology.  I would bet if it was tested in a court of law it would be seen as obtaining goods by deception, as long as the process involved giving a fake address.

 

You don’t even have to give an address. Just pick a region. 

 

 

Also, “if it was tested in court, I bet” is not a convincing argument that it is currently illegal. 

[dumpster]

4 minutes ago, gossi the dog said:

 

They still sell grey imports, and everything below £15 in value gets sent from Switzerland. Sounds just as iffy to me.

Not if they are importing legitimate versions of the game from their appropriate country of origin. Let me be clear. If Base.com are shipping import products then that is their choice and you can choose to buy from them if you want to.  What I am talking about is simply that people are *giving a fake address* fooling the system into giving them access to prices and versions of games that they should not be playing. I'm sure this would never happen but it was tested, lying about your address in order to get something for less money than the legit route would be your problem because you supplied the fake details.  

 

If a pub serves an underage customer they get into trouble. If that customer is using fake ID then the pub is doing nothing wrong and the onus falls to the customer.  

[dumpster]

1 minute ago, HarryBizzle said:

 

You don’t even have to give an address. Just pick a region. 

On PS4 and Xbox?

[dreamylittledream]

5 minutes ago, dumpster said:

I'm using Norway as a sample place because someone mentioned it earlier. It is odd that Nintendo allows you to buy from any store by simply changing a menu option and in that scenario it doesn't make sense that the prices are different. But the thread is about all consoles and I know many of us have accounts on our PS4 and XBox systems for Japan and America and  the law hasn't kept up with the technology.  I would bet if it was tested in a court of law it would be seen as obtaining goods by deception, as long as the process involved giving a fake address.

 

I mentioned it as a sample place because it completely defeated your argument that the pricing was based on the countries economic position that you has used in relation to South Africa.

 

Nintendo of Europe allow you to buy from any of the shops they operate with all that is needed being changing your country name in your profile.  They choose to employ different pricing in different countries for reasons best known to themselves.  They are clearly not happy with you buying outside of their region and block it (yes this can be worked around but at this point it strays closer to your point of gaming the system).

 

Xbox used to be relaxed about it and now actively block it.  Sony always blocked it and needed plenty of deviousness.

 

There is no ethical argument regarding this either way, but its patently untrue to suggest there is any issue in switching the country your account is registered to in a profile and then buying a game to suggest anything is wrong other than some bizarre pricing policies from the big N

 

 

[HarryBizzle]

12 minutes ago, dumpster said:

On PS4 and Xbox?

 

You just use gift cards and changing your region is sufficient. 

[dumpster]

To be clear, I'm specifically talking about gaming the system by providing false details to get access to games and prices that you should not have access to. As soon as you have to be dishonest, providing a fake address or whatever, you have lost the high ground.  If Nintendo allows you to choose which of their international stores you buy from with your UK account then that's great and it is common sense to browse them all and choose the cheapest. 

 

8 minutes ago, dreamylittledream said:

Xbox used to be relaxed about it and now actively block it.  Sony always blocked it and needed plenty of deviousness

That's the point. If you have to be devious to obtain the game cheaper then you know in your heart that you are doing something wrong. And if you are being dishonest then where do you draw the line? If all the games were free in a particular country and you set up a fake account by giving false information, how is that OK? There's a definite sense that because the games are a bit cheaper and still coming from an official source then it is OK to lie about where you live.

[shirubagan]

Oh, Capitalism. 

[Marlew]

My mate Cisco once stole a bottle of wine and some bread and cheese from an Italian supermarket because it was run by Berlusconi and we were a going on a mountain walk and we didn't have any money for food or drink. I didn't agree but when we got to the top of that mountain, it tasted better than anything I've ever tasted in my life. And yet Mario Tennis Aces was still a load of shite even off the SA eShop.

 

Life sure is complicated. 

[OogyBoogy]

1 hour ago, dumpster said:

If you choose to neg this, you must explain why it is wrong. 

 

A few years from now Nintendo will pull the plug on the Switch servers, just like they do with the Wii/DS ones, and then you'll have nothing to show for it.

So you might as well pay as little as possible.

 

[Qazimod]

I think I've only really jumped to other regions when availability is an issue - if something's relatively import-friendly and isn't seeing a European release for months then sure, I'll buy the US version of P4G or the Japanese version of Phoenix Wright 3... but I do this so rarely that I don't really feel guilty about it.

 

If it's something that will reach all regions in a week or so I'll just buy from our own territory. And if it's too expensive I'll wait, or trade something in, or save in advance (by making fewer dumb impulse purchases, or whatever.)

[witchypoos]

17 hours ago, witchypoos said:

I've been on the internet long enough to know how quickly these well intentioned, open minded discussions can descend into binary arguments and personal slanging matches.

 

I reckon we did alright, considering, you fucking thief. Couple of hours longer than I expected.

[Quest]

5 hours ago, dumpster said:

To be clear, I'm specifically talking about gaming the system by providing false details to get access to games and prices that you should not have access to. As soon as you have to be dishonest, providing a fake address or whatever, you have lost the high ground. 

 

I have to do so regularly for all kinds of things, in order to get around state censorship. Take your moralising and shove it.

[JPickford]

6 hours ago, dumpster said:

. Pretending that you do in order to save money is obtaining goods through deception. It is a criminal offence.

 

This is obvious bollocks.  It's about as illegal as giving a fake name in Starbucks.   

 

Also,  (personal) piracy is not a criminal offence either.  It's "illegal" but not criminal which makes it a civil matter (you can't get arrested for it and the police won't care).

[NEG]

25 minutes ago, JPickford said:

 

This is obvious bollocks.  It's about as illegal as giving a fake name in Starbucks.  

 

What sort of person would do such a thing? Terrible!

[ThePixelbarks]

It's a buyers market, and the developers and publishers are still getting a cut of the money I've put down. 

 

I'm going to keep buying from multiple regions, because "ethically" and legally, I've done bugger all wrong. 

 

5 hours ago, JPickford said:

  It's about as illegal as giving a fake name in Starbucks.   

 

It's not fake, they just can't spell. ;_;

[gossi the dog]

Well I've just purchased several xbox games in the year end sale off the Turkish and US xbox stores. Total cost, less than £35. Equivalent cost on the UK store £67.11. That's a big saving.

[fat flatulent git]

1 minute ago, gossi the dog said:

Well I've just purchased several xbox games in the year end sale off the Turkish and US xbox stores. Total cost, less than £35. Equivalent cost on the UK store £67.11. That's a big saving.

 

I'm calling the police.

[witchypoos]

Fuck da police, I'm paging twitters moral outrage division.

Enjoy your games while you can, dickhead.

[gossi the dog]

On ‎28‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 08:58, gossi the dog said:

Well I've just purchased several xbox games in the year end sale off the Turkish and US xbox stores. Total cost, less than £35. Equivalent cost on the UK store £67.11. That's a big saving.

 

I've now got my bank statement. Actual cost was £33.12. And my maths was wrong with regards to the UK store (Mortal Kombat XL only had 70% off as opposed to the 75% on the US store) so it actually would have cost me £69.11. So a saving of £35.99.

 

However, thinking about it, were it not for the ability to easily access games off foreign stores, I probably would have spent all of £6 on two games. The others I'd have passed on - and where possible invariably sought out second hand copies. So Microsoft are clearly winners here. Not so much the second hand game shops or the UK government. Publishers I guess a little bit of a mixed picture.

[Timmo]

Currently posting from prison following my house being raided after I gave Sony an address in Indonesia.

[partious]

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/972660/view/3632752322771082194?l=english

 

Quote

Special mention to fans in countries where the price changes are more dramatic - Turkey and Argentina, especially: we see you and appreciate you, and apologize if these changes affect you negatively. 

What I can say is that we saw a huge increase in sales in your countries last year, but no increase in the number of players. Something like 85% of sales coming "from Argentina and Turkey" seem to be coming from people playing in other countries - people who are chasing the lowest possible price on Steam. This is apparently a widespread problem on Steam, which is why Steam is recommending an especially large increase in your regional prices. 

This is not an easy decision, but we do agree with it - the alternative is basically encouraging people to abuse the system and pay far less for our games than we know they're worth. Thanks very much for understanding.

 

[mushashi]

Entitled Western gamers who want their shit cheap ASAP in fucking over people who might actually need the cheap local pricing shocker.

[thesnwmn]

No surprises here. This was always going to be the result of people buying cheap from foreign stores.

 

It's a real shame for those in the countries most heavily impacted. The relative cost of games versus other things could/will skyrocket. Same for most services and similar really.

 

I think maybe there are other solutions but they probably involve region locking. And I'm not sure a) whether we want that in general and b) how possible it really could ever be on PC. So hopefully someone works something out eventually so that games can (with the final decision by the developer/publisher) be priced appropriately for each market accounting for average wages and exchange rates and restricted to those people correctly so that it's not just people taking the piss.