Abandoned Games

[Sane]

8 minutes ago, Jamie John said:

For me, this belongs in the same basket as Bravely Default, Octopath Traveller, Dragon Quest XI and the Tales games, none of which have made the cut. I think I should just stay away from the genre. I keep waiting for a game of this type to sweep me of my feet and become an obsession, but they never do.

 

Next!

I'd honestly say that if you feel that way about DQ XI then the genre is just not for you. That game is just pure JRPG goodness in every way.

[Jamie John]

17 minutes ago, Sane said:

I'd honestly say that if you feel that way about DQ XI then the genre is just not for you. That game is just pure JRPG goodness in every way.

 

You may be right. I've tried DQXI three different times - on PS4, Switch and then on Game Pass - and though I felt it had its charms, ultimately the battle system was too simplistic to interest me.

 

Thinking on it, the only JRPGs I've ever truly enjoyed are the non-traditional ones. Even stuff like FFs 7-9 break the mould in a lot of ways. The more modern examples of the genre that I've actually seen through are FFXII: The Zodiac Age and Personas 4 and 5, and all three of those aren't exactly your typical turn based JRPGs, either.

 

It's the characterisation that really gets me. Everyone is either a pompous and pure white knight or they're a demonic super villain driven solely by evil for evil's sake, with little in between. And even if I try to just ignore the story and focus on the battling and the systems, when a game is as exposition-heavy as Radiant Historia, that becomes difficult to do.

 

Looking at my pile of shame, I've got both Xeboblade Chronicles and FFX Remastered to play in the JRPG genre, so I'll see if they fare any better. I'm hoping there's an option to turn the voices off in both of them, otherwise they might find themselves on the scrapheap pretty sharpish.

[Sane]

 

28 minutes ago, Jamie John said:

Looking at my pile of shame, I've got both Xeboblade Chronicles and FFX Remastered to play in the JRPG genre, so I'll see if they fare any better. I'm hoping there's an option to turn the voices off in both of them, otherwise they might find themselves on the scrapheap pretty sharpish.

I think it's pretty likely you will have a similar experience with those games. Personally I bounced off XC pretty hard because of the combat, it just felt really uninvolved and chaotic to me (many people love it though, so your experience might be different). FFX I did enjoy but that was a long time ago when it was just released. In terms of annoying, two dimensional characters it's pretty much unrivaled I'd say. 

 

Have you played Lost Odyssey? That's a game that takes a different approach to storytelling and it's characters. 

[ChewMagma]

Try Yakuza: Like a Dragon.

 

I'm playing Xenoblade Chronicles at the moment and loving it but I cannot see that being the right pick for someone who struggles with the genre, not at all.

 

DQXI is one of the best video games ever made, let alone JRPGs, so if you didn't get on with that, it probably isn't the genre for you tbh.

[df0]

Have you tried Ni No Kuni 2 on PS4?Charming, no cringe, looks adorable, easy to pick up. Often on sale.

[Jamie John]

7 hours ago, Sane said:

 

I think it's pretty likely you will have a similar experience with those games. Personally I bounced off XC pretty hard because of the combat, it just felt really uninvolved and chaotic to me (many people love it though, so your experience might be different). FFX I did enjoy but that was a long time ago when it was just released. In terms of annoying, two dimensional characters it's pretty much unrivaled I'd say. 

 

Have you played Lost Odyssey? That's a game that takes a different approach to storytelling and it's characters. 

 

I completed FFX way back when, too, but never returned to it. I'm already dreading the whistle scene, and just Tidus in general. And I played Lost Odyssey on the 360 when I was a teenager and got most of the way through it but I never saw it to the end for some reason.

 

59 minutes ago, df0 said:

Have you tried Ni No Kuni 2 on PS4?Charming, no cringe, looks adorable, easy to pick up. Often on sale.

 

Yes - didn't like it. I thought it was more twee than charming.

 

6 hours ago, ChewMagma said:

Try Yakuza: Like a Dragon.

 

This has been recommended to me before, but stories of the repeated battles and grind have put me off. If it's still on Game Pass by the time I'm looking to scratch that JRPG itch then I'll give it a go.

 

I'll try to go into XC and FFX with an open mind, but I think, really, by playing these sorts of games now I'm just trying to replicate the same feelings of wonder I experienced from spending months on end playing and replaying FF7 and FF9 when I was a pre-adolescent, something I'll never be able to achieve because I'm not ten anymore and can no longer ignore the horrible writing and dry exposition in lots of these sorts of games.

[ChewMagma]

2 hours ago, Jamie John said:

This has been recommended to me before, but stories of the repeated battles and grind have put me off. If it's still on Game Pass by the time I'm looking to scratch that JRPG itch then I'll give it a go.

 

I am about halfway through and have not had any moments where I have particularly needed to grind as far as I recall but repeated battles are generally a feature of most JRPGs though, even with ones that try and avoid the Grind (i.e. a situation where you have to find an experience generating loop of random encounters in order to level up before a roadblock boss). If you play any JRPG by trying to avoid all random encounters in order to progress the story then you will hit a wall eventually because the games are always structured around you fighting those random encounters to some extent. In most modern, popular JRPGs, you can avoid the Grind if you take your time and fight those repeated battles, but you can't avoid the repeated battles full stop. That process is so intrinsic to traditional JRPGs that once you remove that there is an argument they aren't really JRPGs anymore.

 

The reason why I recommend Yakuza is because the writing is much better than most JRPGs (although with caveat that you have to click with that series' unique tone that veers between the offbeat/surreal and serious/melancholic, sometimes in the same scene) and whilst it is very much a traditional JRPG mechanically, its setting and characters definitely set it apart from other JRPGs.

[Sane]

2 hours ago, Jamie John said:

I'll try to go into XC and FFX with an open mind, but I think, really, by playing these sorts of games now I'm just trying to replicate the same feelings of wonder I experienced from spending months on end playing and replaying FF7 and FF9 when I was a pre-adolescent, something I'll never be able to achieve because I'm not ten anymore and can no longer ignore the horrible writing and dry exposition in lots of these sorts of games.

Yeah this is very true and something I definitely recoginize. Sad but true .

[ChewMagma]

Oh and just some thoughts on Xenoblade Chronicles:

 

Why you'd want to play:

1. The Setting - epic, awe-inspiring, just very cool all round with a truly epic sense of scale.

2. The Combat System - marmite for some, but I find it very satisfying. I love auto-attack systems though where I don't have to micro manage the party in every encounter, I find them relaxing.

3. The XP System - refreshingly you do not lose any progress if you die, you retain all XP and items you obtained since the last checkpoint, so no punishment for exploration or experimentation.

 

Why you should avoid:

1. Anime Tropes and Characters - if you bounce off these, you will bounce of this.

2. Too many side quests - hundreds upon hundreds of dull fetch and hunt quests, if you are a completionist it will drive you mad.

3. Bewildering array of systems - lots of overlapping systems that are hard to understand the utility of and are communicated via a crazy info dump of a HUD when you suspect a lot of it can be ignored but can induce analysis paralysis nevertheless.

[ChewMagma]

Final thought on JRPGs I promise: I only really clicked with them in my 30s and in the last few years and had no relationship with them in my teens, so it is possible to enjoy these games even without that early emotional connection ime.

[Gabe]

My tolerance for JRPGs has completely fallen off a cliff these days, a far cry from when they used to be one of my favourite genres. 

 

I did briefly try Xenoblade Chronicles (without knowing anything about it apart from it was meant to be good) but was very disappointed with the hands-off combat. I might try it again at some point. I also played a bit of DQXI but the juvenile writing, the twee voices (and all the grunts and groans, dear lord) and the fact it was meant to be about 100 hours put me off continuing. 

 

As for Yakuza, I've no interest as I don't like the setting, writing or characters of the mainline series, so I don't see the JRPG version doing anything to change that.

 

It is a shame, because Western RPGs too often follow a D&D approach (so spells are limited in uses and you have to rest to reset, a mechanic I hate) or don't really do good party and turn-based adventures, so it is slim pickings these days. 

[max renn]

Halo Infinite 

 

Good lord, the grinding of the final levels broke me. Fuck it I'm out.

[Jamie John]

Thanks for your thoughts, @ChewMagma. I should have mentioned that I have actually played some of XC - I bought a *new* Nintendo 3DS to do so, in fact - but I ended up getting fed up with it after a while. I honestly don't know why I rebought the Switch version, to be honest. Probably because Matt Castle on the Back Page pod rates it so highly. I also played Xenoblade Chronicles X on the Wii U, but similarly never finished it, despite putting dozens of hours in.

 

And re. the Grind, I think if the battle system is good enough then I don't mind it so much and I can treat the game as something to unwind with and maybe listen to a podcast to. I did this with the endgame of FFXII, for example, and had a great time, and that's a game which plays itself, once you've got everything set up. I think I remember @jcafarley on TCGS (another podcast reference!) talking about how he got fed up with LAD by the end, so that somewhat soured me towards it.

 

And part of me still feels like I should give DQXI another go, though, although I'm not sure why. The amount of people who rate it so highly must be onto something. I just found it so simplistic and dull. That's supposed to be part of the point, apparently, but it never sat right with me.

[MattyP]

38 minutes ago, max renn said:

Halo Infinite 

 

Good lord, the grinding of the final levels broke me. Fuck it I'm out.

Indeed I bounced off Halo Infinite quite hard. Had perhaps a couple of sessions on it and decided I really don't enjoy Halo anymore. Although I think its generally that I don't really enjoy any FPS games these days not a fan of grinding to progress in games either. Good to give it a try though via GP.

[jcafarley]

33 minutes ago, Jamie John said:

And re. the Grind, I think if the battle system is good enough then I don't mind it so much and I can treat the game as something to unwind with and maybe listen to a podcast to. I did this with the endgame of FFXII, for example, and had a great time, and that's a game which plays itself, once you've got everything set up. I think I remember @jcafarley on TCGS (another podcast reference!) talking about how he got fed up with LAD by the end, so that somewhat soured me towards it.

 

Yep, I never really got over the battle system as it never really felt 'fun' to me, just something that got in the way of the story.

[Sane]

1 hour ago, Jamie John said:

And part of me still feels like I should give DQXI another go, though, although I'm not sure why. The amount of people who rate it so highly must be onto something. I just found it so simplistic and dull. That's supposed to be part of the point, apparently, but it never sat right with me.

Tim Rogers' review will help you decide. It will either make you super enthousiastic or put you off forever . In any case it's hugely entertaining.

[ChewMagma]

2 hours ago, Gabe said:

It is a shame, because Western RPGs too often follow a D&D approach (so spells are limited in uses and you have to rest to reset, a mechanic I hate) or don't really do good party and turn-based adventures, so it is slim pickings these days. 

 

On the off chance you haven't played the Divinity games, then you really should play the Divinity games in that case. The gold standard of Western turn-based RPGs.

[ChewMagma]

30 minutes ago, Sane said:

Tim Rogers' review will help you decide. It will either make you super enthousiastic or put you off forever . In any case it's hugely entertaining.

 

I think it was this guy that sold me on it.

 

Firstly on DQXI I'd say the combat looks simplistic but is actually much deeper than you expect with a lot of surprising complexity in character builds.

 

Secondly the cast is fantastic and you will be rooting for all of them if you see it to the end.

 

Thirdly it takes the brave approach of holding back all of its best story, enemies, plot twists, settings, environments, until the end of the game so it all feels like a brilliant crescendo. This is the only game I have played for 100+ hours and been genuinely sad there was nothing left to do. This is a stark contrast to most games which show you everything they have to offer in the first 5-10 hours and after that are a death slog to the end.

 

Final JRPG tip: if you have the option, always play with Japanese voices and subtitles. Any English dub will drive you to distraction.

[Gabe]

11 minutes ago, ChewMagma said:

 

On the off chance you haven't played the Divinity games, then you really should play the Divinity games in that case. The gold standard of Western turn-based RPGs.

I have Divinity 2 (I backed the Kickstarter) but haven't got around to playing it yet - but that is an SRPG and I miss good old fashioned straight-up turn-based games (like Lost Odyssey or Blue Dragon). Western RPGs usually have either a strategy layer (so grid-based movement like Divinity) or real-time with pause. I can't actually think of any 'traditional' Western RPG, actually.

[ChewMagma]

5 minutes ago, Gabe said:

I have Divinity 2 (I backed the Kickstarter) but haven't got around to playing it yet - but that is an SRPG and I miss good old fashioned straight-up turn-based games (like Lost Odyssey or Blue Dragon). Western RPGs usually have either a strategy layer (so grid-based movement like Divinity) or real-time with pause. I can't actually think of any 'traditional' Western RPG, actually.

 

I mean it is strictly an SRPG I suppose but it is much closer to Baldurs Gate with a proper turn based system than it is to Final Fantasy Tactics, Disgaia, or Fire Emblem or even X-Com which I tend to think of when it comes to SRPGs.

 

But yeah you are right there aren't too many examples of non-Japanese RPGs that are turn based but without a tactical, positional layer. Wizardry 8 maybe, if you want to go back 20 years? Darkest Dungeon? Battle Chasers? Cristales?

[Gabe]

Just now, ChewMagma said:

 

I mean it is strictly an SRPG I suppose but it is much closer to Baldurs Gate with a proper turn based system than it is to Final Fantasy Tactics, Disgaia, or Fire Emblem or even X-Com which I tend to think of when it comes to SRPGs.

 

But yeah you are right there aren't too many examples of non-Japanese RPGs that are turn based but without a tactical, positional layer. Wizardry 8 maybe, if you want to go back 20 years? Darkest Dungeon? Battle Chasers? Cristales?

I do actually have Wizardry 8 and played a bit, but even that has positional play involved (a bit like the old Might & Magic games.)

 

I've been playing a bit of Darkest Dungeon too, and that's okay, but it's not really much of an RPG, it's more a rogue-like/lite? Battle Chasers I gave up on because I wasn't having any fun, it was exhausting with every battle being a slog against damage-sponge (and hard-hitting) enemies. Cristales I think wasn't that well-received? 

 

That does make me look extremely picky and I guess I am, though it isn't a massively crowded market these days. I need to look back at some the PS2 RPGs I think if I'm going to get any kind of fix. 

[ChewMagma]

I think Cristales it depends on who you ask, I haven't played it myself.

 

It does sound like you want something that doesn't really exist, traditional turn-based JRPGs with a Western fantasy setting or story-telling tradition.

 

Consulting my 650 page Guide to Japanese RPGs by Bitmap Books, it looks like you could try Anachronox, Cosmic Star Heroine, maybe Lord of the Rings: The Third Age.

[Jamie John]

See, I thought Divinity OS 2 had the opposite problem to DQXI: whereas I found Dragon Quest too simplistic, Divinity was too involved; playing on the default difficulty, having to meticulously set up your troops before almost every battle and really think about where every single one of them was standing, what they were next to, how far from the enemies they were, what flammable substances were in their general vicinity, was just too exhausting. Each battle would take me at least ten minutes to complete. I put about 20 hours into it before I threw in the towel.

 

Having said that, I plan to try again with it as and when I get a Steam Deck. Maybe I'll knock the difficulty down this time.

[Gabe]

13 minutes ago, ChewMagma said:

I think Cristales it depends on who you ask, I haven't played it myself.

 

It does sound like you want something that doesn't really exist, traditional turn-based JRPGs with a Western fantasy setting or story-telling tradition.

 

Consulting my 650 page Guide to Japanese RPGs by Bitmap Books, it looks like you could try Anachronox, Cosmic Star Heroine, maybe Lord of the Rings: The Third Age.

Played them all, but yeah, I realise what I'm looking for isn't really a thing.

[James Lyon]

The only answer here is Ultima VII. 

[BadgerFarmer]

7 hours ago, Gabe said:

Cristales I think wasn't that well-received? 

It's not great, no. Especially if you have a low tolerance for mindless battles.

[sandman]

Guardians of the galaxy 

 

What an absolute turd of a game this is. The gameplay reminds of a cheap Ps2 era licensed game with endless repeating enemies and poorly thought out boss fights. Quite how it’s received such a good reception is beyond me. It simply isn’t much fun to play. My dislike of the GOTG films and comics probably isn’t helping much but I had high hopes for this despite that. The voice acting is also terrible. 

[dreamylittledream]

2 minutes ago, sandman said:

Guardians of the galaxy 

 

What an absolute turd of a game this is. The gameplay reminds of a cheap Ps2 era licensed game with endless repeating enemies and poorly thought out boss fights. Quite how it’s received such a good reception is beyond me. It simply isn’t much fun to play. My dislike of the GOTG films and comics probably isn’t helping much but I had high hopes for this despite that. The voice acting is also terrible. 

At least half the appeal is how well it nails an interactive GOTG movie so if you don’t like the Guardians you were never going to get on with it.

 

I’d disagree on the gameplay aspect too, it’s always serviceable rather than poor but the games true charm is in the script and storytelling  

[sandman]

12 minutes ago, dreamylittledream said:

At least half the appeal is how well it nails an interactive GOTG movie so if you don’t like the Guardians you were never going to get on with it.

 

I’d disagree on the gameplay aspect too, it’s always serviceable rather than poor but the games true charm is in the script and storytelling  

I’m kind of hate playing it now. It’s so noisy, just a plethora of audio and  visual vomit with no downtime. I like the individual characters in the other MCU movies but cannot stand what that over rated twat Gunn has done with the two main entries, so in theory I’m just waiting for the right creative team to make something great. Shame that Alan Moore never wrote GOTG. 

[Unofficial Who]

Narita Boy (PC)

 

Really wanted to like this as I love the look of the game but I just can't get on with the combat. I think I'm getting old.