Outer Wilds

[Kevvy Metal]

39 minutes ago, alex3d said:

Putting the blame on players has always been an unconvincing argument though, 

No, I disagree. Not even remotely an unconvincing argument and I’d argue it’s most of the time - the case - and why you often have this horrible crap culture of disgruntled, moaning gamers who refuse to admit the problem is them and not the way something is designed.
It’s fundamental user error and it’s everywhere. If people took a moment to think of what the game is asking them to do and for them to not always be trying to undermine it, they might have a much better time. 

 

Then there’s the argument that “oh we need to design it this way for the lowest common denominator” and it results in vapid, neutered experiences. 
 

“Why can’t I manual save in Dark Souls?” BECAUSE YOU CAN’T. That’s the rules, play by them, consider WHY it’s like that and you might have fun.

[Kevvy Metal]

In saying all that, I just did the final run and hit the ending. 
 

outstanding, fucking outstanding. Game. 
 

It really is more of a “Walking Simulator” than a puzzle game and I found the whole thing to be pretty beautiful experience. 

[Alan Stock]

I do have sympathy with people struggling on the final run. It can be really frustrating and the waiting around/repetition is really annoying if you mess it up. For my first attempt I actually

decided to use the time to wait for the sand to go down to actually go all the way to the Vessel and enter the code, then exit Bramble, grab the core, go back and plug it in. Unfortunately I accidentally hit one of the edges of one of the teleport seeds on my return trip, which caused my ship to spin just as I went through the teleport into a new zone of Bramble. Annoyingly it didn't autocorrect my alignment and I ended up spinning back the way I'd came which teleports you out of Dark Bramble all together! With just a few minutes left on the clock and the realisation that I was holding the core keeping the time loop going, I raced back to Ash Twin and at the last minute managed to plug the core back in before the sun exploded! Thankfully the next run I managed to do it without making the extra trip to Bramble and finished the game. It was still a tedious process overall as I'd spent ages on repeat runs through Bramble whilst I was exploring it and trying out different stuff on the Vessel. I also had one run where I did everything you need to with the Vessel - but that was before I knew you needed the core as well, so it was all for naught! Still, you can't beat the high of the final successful run, especially with that pumping music and the fear that you could die for real with the core removed from Ash Twin

 

Re: some of @Pob's points (big secret and ending spoilers):

 

I did a bit of research into the ending last week because I was also curious about alternate endings. Apparently you only get the Nomai if you make it to the Quantum Moon, and also there are Nomai skeletons in the woods at the end which I got but apparently are optional too, not sure what triggers them though (maybe reaching the Interloper interior?). Also I got pictures of a future bug race on the final image in the far far future, who seem to be reliving the Hearthian values of exploration, but again they are apparently optional and I dunno how you get them.

 

As far as I know I found all of the optional major content. The biggest ones are the Sun Station, the Quantum Moon and the Interloper. The Sun Station does have a clue (I forget what), but I remember it didn't help me much as the last thing I had to do in the game was find a way into Ash Twin. So effectively those three things are pretty big secrets that you could entirely skip over to reach the end, which is pretty cool. What I really like about those places is they just give you more backstory and connection with the Nomai and also fill in a bunch of gaps in your knowledge of what happened. Another nice, easyish to find secret is the hidden place on Timber Hearth which gives a little backstory to the Hearthians (I won't spoil it if anyone hasn't found it yet). I also read there is something hidden on the Brittle Hollow moon although I can't be arsed to go check it out, if anyone else does?

 

Also Pob we all assumed from what you said that you'd already found the quantum tower with the imaging tutorial, how did you know about photographing the quantum stuff without doing that? Just by experimentation?

 

I think my most memorable reveals in the game are the same as Pob's:

- The fate of the Dark Bramble escape pod and the Interloper core - both are so sombre especially as it's probably the first time you've seen a Nomai for real. And then you learn as well that the Interloper basically wiped them all out before they could even finish their work.

- When you learn that the Orbital Probe has been fired like 9000 times and it finally clicks that this is what the time loop is all about, just brilliant!

 

PS - I dunno if anyone else tried this but one loop I just went really fast and I managed to chase down the orbital probe (the blue light that's fired from the cannon) at the start. It actually stops on the edge of the solar system. It's not very big and it's a basic shape with a few Nomai symbols on it, no translatable text or anything. It doesn't seem to do anything else. It was a bit dissapointing but later on when I discovered the full story behind the probe I guess it makes sense. Also some people might immediately try that on their first few loops so you wouldn't really want to have any big plot points hidden on it I suppose.

 

I've started watching a Youtuber who I like play this game, it's so interesting to see the approaches of other players with Outer Wilds as it's so open ended. Seeing her struggle with things I found straightforward, or figure out solutions to things that took ages for me to realise is eye-opening. This player also uses the ship log a lot to plan out what to do next, whereas I barely looked at it until near the end of the game where I found it useful to narrow down what I should still be looking for. Its a bit unfortunate but the ship log can slightly give away clues or make certain narrative/logical leaps that you yourself might not have already made. For that reason I don't really recommend reading the text in it too much until you've at least started making good headway into the planets. What's also interesting in the various lets plays I've dipped into is how the first things that players find really end up shaping what mysteries they'll chase first. Some players like to follow the ship log or follow on the linked story threads to give them direction, other players will just go off and explore everywhere and pick up random snippets as they go until they start connecting the narrative dots.

 

For anyone interested the Youtuber is Materwelonz who has an amazing voice (and does a lot of good lets plays): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6C40SY9TEU  . There is a pretty sad lack of bigger Youtubers who have played this game, I guess its slower pace isn't that condusive to lets plays but I love seeing people's reactions to stuff like this and seeing how they approach things in such an open ended game. 

 

[Pob]

Spoiler

 

@Alan Stock for some reason I hadn't ticked off one of the quantum shards, as I noticed some things only get ticked once you go right up to them, so I thought I'd already visited it. I thought landing on the QM might be something to do with keeping it observed with the scout, and peeking at Moz's clue confirmed it. I initially thought I might actually have to keep it 'live' on camera, having not done the Quantum Imaging tutorial, but luckily I tried simple keeping a historical image in screen first, and it worked. I must admit when I finally impacted on the surface, I thought "stupid puzzle" and only much later realised I'd missed the whole bit that introduces the concept.

 

The first mystery that piqued my interest was Feldspar's disappearance, so I explored Dark Bramble very early, though not exhaustively of course. I pursued the third distress signal and found the Vessel much later. I also chased the probe down very early on and was surprised to not find anything of note. I naively thought I might be short-cutting to the end by performing what I thought at the time was an advanced manoeuvre. Ash Twin Project was the last key place I visited as well, which seemed 'right'. Seemed obvious to me the Vessel wouldn't go anywhere with a broken, replaceable warp core 

 

I do think it's a really watchable 'let's play' game just because, as you say, everyone brings their own personality to it with their choices and deductions, and also of course because of those moments of frustration and revelation.

 

I played it with my 7-year-old watching and it was a great experience untangling the story together. He couldn't let go of the idea that Feldspar was stuck inside Dark Bramble and didn't seem to care about getting out. He thought we should be getting a rescue party together for him! It was a really good introduction to some enduring sci-fi ideas as well, like ancient races, black holes, causality, the lifecycle of the universe etc. We watched Back To The Future 2 at the weekend and got exactly what was going on with the branching timelines first time, whereas I had to ask my mum and watch it through a second time when I was 10.

 

 

[NecroMorrius]

On 28/01/2020 at 16:50, alex3d said:

@Moz No, DS4. 

Ok just wondered. I played a bit with keyboard and mouse and found it really difficult. But I didn’t find the bit you were talking about very troublesome. In zero gravity you thrust and then keep moving forever, so you can do that bit without touching the controller if you line it up right. i did have one heartbreaking failure but got it on my second attempt.

 

I really wonder, and this isn’t aimed at you, if a lot of people don’t understand how thrust works in zero-g and keep building up speed by thrusting like a racing game instead of thrusting to the desired speed and coasting the rest of the way. Would explain all the comments about smashing into planets etc. 

[BitterToad]

I’d just like to quickly back up my point on smashing into planets earlier. I’m aware of how thrust works, I’m also aware of how fun works and sometimes the two butt heads and I smash into a cliff and have to start the loop again. 
 

Game of the year 2019. 

[alex3d]

@Moz Yes, I understand your point. I have made some great improvements regarding controls and hardly crash into plants anymore. But still experience lots of situations mentioned by Alan. Quote (Alan Stock):

 

Quote

 accidentally hit one of the edges of one of the teleport seeds on my return trip, which caused my ship to spin just as I went through the teleport into a

Spoiler

new zone of Bramble

. Annoyingly it didn't autocorrect 

 

[PeteJ]

I grabbed a quick half hour to play this yesterday but found it a frustrating experience. Constantly cocking up the flying, even flew into the sun multiple times as trying to get to dark bramble as quickly as possible. I managed to tick off a couple of things on the list however so it wasn't a total loss. 

 

Definitely not a game you can rush! Despite the 22 cycle this is a game to enjoy over several hours rather than short bursts. 

[alex3d]

Finally. Closure. Managed to beat the game after dying two dozen times in Dark Bramble alone. The ending is nice, I think, even tough I couldn't enjoy half of it because I was afraid of dying again. For me, the game has been an experience full of frustrating situations, some nice ideas and interesting locations. Overall, I did not enjoy it. Big thanks to all the helpful posters in this thread though!

[Pob]

1 hour ago, alex3d said:

Managed to beat the game after dying two dozen times in Dark Bramble alone.

That’s bonkers. I think I died there a maximum of three times across the whole game, and not once on the final run. 

[JPL]

3 times for me as well.

[Ketchup]

To be fair I think the things that can kill you in dark bramble are overly aggressive.

 

Spoiler

As soon as the fish see light that’s it you’re dead unless you have enough distance between you to get to a warp point first as they’ll attack you despite no more light source. They should only react to the light, so when you are using engines they’ll come after you but as soon as you stop they should lose interest. That’s how you keep the same actions in the game but remove all the frustrations and it’s a shame such a simple change wasn’t included.

 

[BitterToad]

They’re not reacting to the light...

[alex3d]

Corrected. 

 

Spoiler

As soon as the fish hear the faintest sound...

 

[Kevvy Metal]

wtf? Just boost the tiniest bit, there's a boost gauge for a reason. you can zoom the fuck through that place and avoid the fishes. 

I only let it go one bar on the boost gauge and nip on by. 

 

I shouldn't read this place when I'm enjoying a game because even on the final run when I visited the place with the W*** C*** for the first time ever, read all the text then went straight to where you meant to go and did it all in one cycle in plenty time easily I was just thinking how can anyone struggle with this?!? To the point that I captured the run, and I'll prob stick it up on YouTube later, for you all the bask at my leet gamer skillz.  

[alex3d]

[keptbybees]

When it comes to Dark Bramble

Spoiler

I find it really hard to do a small amount of boost, if I end up needing to use thrust halfway through then I'm pretty much dead. I've managed to get to one of the locations there, the camp in the skeleton, though by using a large amount of thrust to set off so I can keep momentum going over the journey. I haven't tried going to any other locations yet since I made that successful journey. I'm playing on the Xbox One X, I doubt the controller would make that much of a difference but you never know.

 

I'm making good progress now, just a few locations left to try and mop up/visit as I'm trying to complete the rumour map. Still really loving flying around, when you make a perfect sweep across a planet it feels so good.

 

I do have one question for the thread

Spoiler

The bit that breaks off at the beginning from the base at Giant's Deep, can you interact with it? I've managed to catch up with it but it's really hard to stay near too as the autopilot keeps kicking in to take me back to the solar system. I trying scanning it with the scope but that did nothing and I don't seem to be able to 'left stick click' on it to enable me to match its velocity and get out with the jetpack.

 

Is there something you can do with it or am I wasting time trying to do more?

 

[Ketchup]

1 hour ago, Mugman said:

They’re not reacting to the light...

That’s not what the game mentions multiple times though unless I’m remembering wrong. For example you can move your ship as much as you want but as soon as the gauge becomes lit that’s it if they see you.

[donpeartree]

Spoiler

You barely even have to fire off your thrusters. I just built up enough speed to coast by silently (albeit slowly).

 

[BitterToad]

Yep. And enter slowly too or you’ll need too much thrust to correct yourself. You have more than enough time to get through on each run.

[Orbital2060]

1 hour ago, alex3d said:

Corrected. 

 

  Hide contents

As soon as the fish hear the faintest sound...

 

Spoilered for everyone else, but as has been mentioned a few times upthread:

 

Spoiler

put the pad down as you enter the last zone - literally - and fly past the Anglerfish using the base momentum until youre past the third fish out .. worked every time once I figured that out.

[alex3d]

6 minutes ago, Mugman said:

 

  Hide contents

Yep. And enter slowly too or you’ll need too much thrust to correct yourself. You have more than enough time to get through on each run.

 

Not necessarily. I ran out of time once.

[BitterToad]

1 minute ago, alex3d said:

Not necessarily. I ran out of time once.

This is really really stupid. 

[alex3d]

Alright. 

[Kevvy Metal]

2 minutes ago, alex3d said:

Not necessarily. I ran out of time once.

 

Would you be will to have a crack at the final run, capture it on PS4 and uploaded it to YouTube?

I'm curious, for science. 

[BitterToad]

7 minutes ago, alex3d said:

Alright. 

 

Sorry, that was me being a dick during a stupid day at work. There is enough time down there. I did it a few times and went pretty damn slow. If you maximise your efficiency in the other sections of the run you can pootle through that bit pretty slowly. It's still tense/nail biting but, well, that's a good thing. 

[Alan Stock]

Regarding those mechanics in Dark Bramble:

I did a lot of tours of Dark Bramble and found out that for the red light seed in particular if you go into the teleport zone at a high speed, when you pop out you'll always have enough momentum (it resets your speed) to coast past all the threats without touching the controls. You don't need to even steer, as it automatically points you in just the right direction to dodge all the fish at the entrance when you spawn in (even though it looks like you'll hit their antennae). It resets your speed to a certain maximum but if you go in too slow you can get screwed because if you thrust right away you're dead. Once the red cells/eggs whatever come into view, that's when its safe to start using a bit of gas. It is possible to outrun the fishies if they're far enough away but only if you can get into the vines. I found that using max thrust was a recipe for distaster and I would only use little bursts not to full power to get around, except in the zones clear of fishies.

 

Re: @keptbybees

I did answer this further up the thread but the post contains spoilers for endgame stuff as well. Basically yes you can catch up to the blue probe if you're fast enough at the start but there is nothing new to gain from it, it's just an object sitting there on the outskirts of the solar system. This makes sense though as it's not the probe itself that's important but the info that it received.

[Alan Stock]

Questions for those who have found everything in the game:

 

 

Did anyone find any more info about the Interloper's deadly payload aside from the text and chamber in the Interloper itself? It all makes sense and there is nothing left on the rumour chart but I just wondered if there are any little snippets about its origins I may have missed.

 

Similar question about Dark Bramble - do we ever learn where it came from (aside from bursting a planet from the inside), or why it seems to be somehow malicious? I never found any explanation for why the Vessel ended up at Dark Bramble - "we weren't supposed to arrive there" or words to that effect are given, as though the bramble gave off a false signal to lure the Vessel in. Or maybe with the multiple signals/parallel 'spaces' that Dark Bramble has, the signal of the Eye made it into Dark Bramble and therefore was also being transmitted from Dark Bramble as a result?

 

I think it's cool if these things aren't explained but I'd rather know if I did miss anything, it's one of those games where you don't really want to scour the whole solar system for one tiny text log you may have missed!
 

 

[mogawoods]

Apologies for not reading a single post in the thread before posting myself (and I won't be for a while to avoid spoilers) but I wanted to express what a wonderful surprise this has been so far. I knew virtually nothing about it going in, other than it was something to do with translations, and it's one of the most beguiling and enthralling things I've played since Breath of the Wild. So many 'whoa' moments in the space of few hours:

 

Spoiler

- casually tapping on the map in the observatory at the start and the camera zooming out to reveal the entire solar system - whoa!

 

- blasting off in my ship for the first time, expecting a cutscene but in fact having full control of my ascension - whoa!

 

- the sun (?) appearing to turn blue and sucking me and every other entity in the galaxy into it - whoa! Also - what the fuck!

 

[milko]

Hey, I have a 'new to the game' question. Sorry if this has been covered previously but I've been trying to avoid spoilers. 

 

Yesterday I got a proper crack at playing this for the first time and was very much starting to enjoy it but had to cut things a little short. Early game spoilers for brevity as much as anything:

Spoiler

I had successfully done all the home planet stuff available afaik, anti-grav training, had the statue suck in all my memories and all that. Launched to the moon and landed, chatted to the bloke there, explored the south pole and found out some stuff. Went back to my ship, which informed me there was still more to discover at that south pole site.

Then I had to stop for the night, and... I can't save of course. I have to restart all over again? I gather there's some kind of time loop cycle I'll be coming up to at some point and then this will make more sense, but in the meantime when I go back to the game. What's gonna happen? Do I need to set aside time properly to get through that, or rush through the bits I've completed already?