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Christopher Nolan's Tenet - Espionage Movie


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8 minutes ago, Gigawatt said:


Putting aside the pandemic for a minute, this is something I’m interested in, and as you’re an insider and I’m just a consumer, maybe you could give us your view on this. 
 

Where I currently live (Major US city), there are loads of cinemas, many with huge screens and lovely recliner seats. I have an unlimited membership which is great value and love going to the cinema. 
 

I’m about to move back to the UK, where the only cinema within an hour of me is a shitty Odeon where it costs £50 for a family of four to see a movie (plus snacks) on a small screen with a load of other noisy people. 
 

Purely as a consumer, the chance to watch a movie in the comfort of my own home is very appealing, because for me it might be a better experience. Obviously that’s specific to my situation, but it would be nice to have the choice. 
 

From your perspective, what price point is reasonable to give consumers a choice in where they watch new release films? Are you completely against day-and-date VOD?  
 

Sorry for dragging this off topic. 


Its maybe for another thread but I'm against day and date personally because cinema is my church. I dont think you can beat the experience of sharing a good film with 200 other people. Its my favourite thing and closing the release window would kill that off. It would also kill off budgets, because the Disney model doesn't work without a billion dollar box office. Although that might not be such a bad thing for the quality of movies if they go back to being based on story quality...

I think £10 is a fair amount for a premium title, and with a release window of three months. Who knows what might happen post covid, certainly a lot of cinemas are gonna close. 

I do think cinema should be cheaper though. My local is £5 all showing of all films Monday-Weds and pre covid I was going three times a week.

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1 hour ago, kerraig UK said:

cinema is my church

In this case, fuck religion. ;) I actually like the cinema experience ... when it's not spoiled by inconsiderate cunts. 

 

I'd pay £20 to see it week of release.

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There's no way Tenet gets a home release. It's the film the studios are pinning the return to cinemas on. It's big, cinematic, and frankly there's no way Christopher Nolan is having it. Sorry guys, keep your thirty quid in your pocket. Or buy 4k blu rays of Interstellar and Dunkirk, Nolan's best movies, for £25 and get a two pizzas and four beers deal from the Coop like I have. 

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Well I would love to see it in a cinema (I saw Dark Knight Rises 3 times on IMAX), but at the moment I’m not sure I want to sit in a stuffy room for 3 hours.  
 

Even if everyone who wants to see it goes, with social distancing rules how are WB going to make any money? The New Zealand box office isn’t going to make up the difference. 

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So I think the idea going forward is that films will have a much, much lower opening weekend but also hopefully have a longer tail on them as people eventually get around to seeing things in socially distant cinemas. Plus with less out there'll really only be the choice of two or three movies. It's interesting, Tenet will almost certainly make less money if released during this weird "hey, remember when there was a lockdown?" period, but it'll make some money, and it's either that or end up potentially getting lost in the 2021 release madness. 

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I have asthma. Me and cinemas are done for a very long time, perhaps forever if we can’t kill this bloody virus. But I still love films. No one is going to pay 30 quid for the new Garfield movie on release at home, but something like this? Yeah I think they will. I would. 

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15 hours ago, kerraig UK said:


Its maybe for another thread but I'm against day and date personally because cinema is my church. I dont think you can beat the experience of sharing a good film with 200 other people. Its my favourite thing and closing the release window would kill that off. It would also kill off budgets, because the Disney model doesn't work without a billion dollar box office. Although that might not be such a bad thing for the quality of movies if they go back to being based on story quality...

I think £10 is a fair amount for a premium title, and with a release window of three months. Who knows what might happen post covid, certainly a lot of cinemas are gonna close. 

I do think cinema should be cheaper though. My local is £5 all showing of all films Monday-Weds and pre covid I was going three times a week.

I think this colours your view very much. Here in Lincoln, we have one cinema, an Odeon, and it's £13 for standard seats per adult. You want a slightly nicer seat and it's £15. I think these sorts of cinemas deserve to fail as they are just money grabbing monopolies in small towns and cities. Living in London, I get that you don't understand that, but if I could get a film day and date with cinema release, I'd consider it much more. My cinema viewing has dropped off a cliff because it's too bloody expensive for what it is. 

 

I also don't agree that day and date vod would kill cinema. Cinema would evolve and change. They said TV would kill off cinema, home video, home dvd etc. It never has. Cinema needs to be worth the money and effort to go there. Presently, it is not. 

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1 hour ago, APM said:

I think this colours your view very much. Here in Lincoln, we have one cinema, an Odeon, and it's £13 for standard seats per adult. You want a slightly nicer seat and it's £15. I think these sorts of cinemas deserve to fail as they are just money grabbing monopolies in small towns and cities. Living in London, I get that you don't understand that, but if I could get a film day and date with cinema release, I'd consider it much more. My cinema viewing has dropped off a cliff because it's too bloody expensive for what it is. 

 

I also don't agree that day and date vod would kill cinema. Cinema would evolve and change. They said TV would kill off cinema, home video, home dvd etc. It never has. Cinema needs to be worth the money and effort to go there. Presently, it is not. 

 

 

Weird that you dont think I'd get it living in london. Tickets are £20 each here in the multiplexes. I don't get your point. Are you saying your local Odeon shouldn't lower their prices?

And the point about TV, home video etc doesn't make a whole lot of sense because the release window never became day and date...

Sincerely 

Confused, from london

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1 hour ago, mexos said:

I have asthma. Me and cinemas are done for a very long time, perhaps forever if we can’t kill this bloody virus. But I still love films. No one is going to pay 30 quid for the new Garfield movie on release at home, but something like this? Yeah I think they will. I would. 


Tenet is nowhere near the box office draw of something like Star Wars or Avengers. Nolans films make about half what the Disney tentpoles make. So you'd probably be looking at about 10 films a year at that price point. £300 to watch 10 movies. 

To be fair though, families pay that to go see em at the cinema... Although, they also get the cinema experience. 

Its great that you can afford it. I just think it would ruin it for a lot of people who are maybe not so affluent.

It also just doesn't work from a financial viewpoint. The event is the draw. Especially in the US and China.

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7 minutes ago, kerraig UK said:

 

 

Weird that you dont think I'd get it living in london. Tickets are £20 each here in the multiplexes. I don't get your point. Are you saying your local Odeon shouldn't lower their prices?

And the point about TV, home video etc doesn't make a whole lot of sense because the release window never became day and date...

Sincerely 

Confused, from london

You have the choice of many different cinemas in London, that was my point. We don't have that here. You state yourself that you go when it's a fiver. We do not have that option here. Of course I think our cinema should be cheaper. I'd go more often then. 

 

As for the comment about TV etc, it was an argument made at the time as you well know. It's not hard to find stuff about TV being the death of cinema which led to Cinemascope and other innovations to keep people coming to the cinema. This would be the same. A new thing is always touted as being the death of an old thing and it very rarely is.

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9 minutes ago, kerraig UK said:


Tenet is nowhere near the box office draw of something like Star Wars or Avengers. Nolans films make about half what the Disney tentpoles make. So you'd probably be looking at about 10 films a year at that price point. £300 to watch 10 movies. 

To be fair though, families pay that to go see em at the cinema... Although, they also get the cinema experience. 

Its great that you can afford it. I just think it would ruin it for a lot of people who are maybe not so affluent.

It also just doesn't work from a financial viewpoint. The event is the draw. Especially in the US and China.

They wouldn't be able to see it at the cinema, either, because it costs too much in most places. 

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1 minute ago, APM said:

You have the choice of many different cinemas in London, that was my point. We don't have that here. You state yourself that you go when it's a fiver. We do not have that option here. Of course I think our cinema should be cheaper. I'd go more often then. 

 

As for the comment about TV etc, it was an argument made at the time as you well know. It's not hard to find stuff about TV being the death of cinema which led to Cinemascope and other innovations to keep people coming to the cinema. This would be the same. A new thing is always touted as being the death of an old thing and it very rarely is.


It's a just weird phrasing considering you essentially agree with me.

And no, day and date would not be the same as TV. Not by a long stretch. It would very much be the death of cinema as we know it (£200m budget tentpole pictures with a world PR tour and £200m in advertising). 

The flipside of that of course, is that i would argue that to be a good thing.

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33 minutes ago, kerraig UK said:

Hence why the solution is cheaper cinema tickets. 

Which attracts more people, which means more crisp-packet-rustling, super-size-coke-gurgling, loudmouth-phone-looking CUNTS.

 

I'd rather watch it in my own home, and am prepared to pay a premium to do so. Why can't I have the choice?

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4 minutes ago, Thor said:

 

I'd rather watch it in my own home, and am prepared to pay a premium to do so. Why can't I have the choice?


Because without those rustling cunts the film in your avatar wouldn't exist. 

It takes $200m to make a Disney tentpole. $200m to publicise it. The cinema takes half the ticket sales. So the film has to take $1bn to wash its face. It only works with global box office. It doesn't work with the SVOD, TVOD, PVOD model at all. 

Disney do Q&A's about this all the time at Cannes and with their shareholders and the like. They've modelled it extensively (as they do everything)

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1 minute ago, kerraig UK said:

Because without those rustling cunts the film in your avatar wouldn't exist. 

That's only one aspect of my point. Why not have lower cinema prices and premium prices for home viewing? It's the choice I'm after, not one at the expense of the other.

 

That said, there are cinema moments where actually being in the cinema is unrivalled - the hammer in Endgame is one indeed. I'm actually a big fan of cinema, I'm just not a fan of most of the people who frequent them. ;)

 

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12 minutes ago, Thor said:

That's only one aspect of my point. Why not have lower cinema prices and premium prices for home viewing? It's the choice I'm after, not one at the expense of the other.

 

That said, there are cinema moments where actually being in the cinema is unrivalled - the hammer in Endgame is one indeed. I'm actually a big fan of cinema, I'm just not a fan of most of the people who frequent them. ;)

 


The distributors are actually eager to do that, and have been fighting for it for years. The cinemas won't let them close the window because they believe it will kill them off. Warner and Odeon often fall out and have little boycotts over Warner trying to squeeze terms. 

Again in London we're spoiled because the indie cinemas we get with their more curated programs don't attract those crowds. My local, the Genesis has a really respectful crowd. 


But then i don't go to see those big family tentpoles so I rarely have to deal with the kids. 

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I totally agree with most of what people are saying. When that experience clicks, there's nothing like it. When a room full of ignorant cunts use it for babysitting, eat food louder than Revels, somewhere dry to check their phones, in one case somewhere to go for a full curry, it rather takes away from the experience. 

 

But kerraig's right. Those big cinema opening weekends are what allow the studios to put so much money into a movie like Tenet. Also, Dunkirk at the BFI Imax is probably the best cinema experience I've ever had. I've got no doubt that if I'd watched that movie at home it wouldn't have had half as much of an effect on me. So, once it's safe, long live cinema. 

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15 minutes ago, Paulando said:

I saw the preview of this on a real IMAX screen before The Rise of Skywalker and it blew me away. This isn’t a film to watch at home.

I'll decide that, thank you very much.

 

I swear cinema elitists are the new militant vegans.  ;)

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1 hour ago, kerraig UK said:

My local, the Genesis has a really respectful crowd. 


High five. I’m a 10 walk away myself. Love it even if the seats are too hard.

 

There are going to be a lot of people like me who can’t or won’t get the op to go back to the cinema any time soon. Dunno this feels like an opportunity. There will be a lot of people that will want to watch new films who can’t. That’s money on the table waiting to be taken somehow.
 

Cinemas like everyone else will have to adapt somehow. Sadly a lot will close. The ship has already sailed on this one I fear unless corona buggers off real quick. 
 

On another note. Personally I’d love it if this ended up killing off the big over the top 100mil + CGI bloat fests. If every dollar spent needs to work harder I’d hope that in return you’d get tighter films with less cg and running time for the sake of it. (Not at all saying this will happen). 
 

Hell we might even get the 1h 30 timeframe back as tighter budgets mean tighter productions.

 

I’m far from it all now but from my own experience shooting car commercials, when we shot HD we endlessly shot. Resulting in shit loads of footage you end up drowning in, a longer edit and running time (for online use). Turned out to be a false economy. Everything took longer. When we shot on film we had a finite resource. Every second counted, things were planned meticulously and the whole production was tighter. We spent far less time on location, in the edit and post. Coincidentally or not the output was better too. I cant remember but I’ll bet in the end it worked out a lot cheaper too.

 

In all the bad, the closures and job losses maybe some little good can come from all this I hope. 
 

 

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6 hours ago, APM said:

I think this colours your view very much. Here in Lincoln, we have one cinema, an Odeon, and it's £13 for standard seats per adult. You want a slightly nicer seat and it's £15. I think these sorts of cinemas deserve to fail as they are just money grabbing monopolies in small towns and cities. Living in London, I get that you don't understand that, but if I could get a film day and date with cinema release, I'd consider it much more. My cinema viewing has dropped off a cliff because it's too bloody expensive for what it is. 


This is the exact cinema I was talking about. I’m glad it’s not just me who thinks it’s too expensive. 

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21 hours ago, Sabreman said:

How much of a box office chunk goes to the cinema chains? I wonder how it would stack up for the studios against how much, say, Apple skims off stuff on iTunes?


For 8 years in the UK I sat right next to the best sales team in the world at Disney UK (or as it was then, Buena Vista UK). In 2003, the year of Bruce Almighty, Pirates of the Caribbean, Finding Nemo and Kill Bill (great year for Disney) the UK sales team were presented with an award by Michael Eisner for their incredible work. I think they averaged something like 64/36 in the distribs favour. 


It's an endless debate. Disney have got it as high as 80/20 opening weekend, then 70/30 for the first two weeks but then it can swing as wide as 30/70 on a long tail. 

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22 hours ago, kerraig UK said:


Because without those rustling cunts the film in your avatar wouldn't exist. 

It takes $200m to make a Disney tentpole. $200m to publicise it. The cinema takes half the ticket sales. So the film has to take $1bn to wash its face. It only works with global box office. It doesn't work with the SVOD, TVOD, PVOD model at all. 

Disney do Q&A's about this all the time at Cannes and with their shareholders and the like. They've modelled it extensively (as they do everything)

 

Why wouldn't the on demand model work? Is it because they would miss out on a second wave of home rentals and purchases?

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5 hours ago, Delargey said:

 

Why wouldn't the on demand model work? Is it because they would miss out on a second wave of home rentals and purchases?


It's just too competitive a market to create the buzz around. The big blockbuster release is still a huge event, with large groups of teenagers and YA's getting together on a weekend to go see their favourite franchise together. That week 1 buzz recoups the budget of the film. 

Maybe that can be recreated at home with watch parties n stuff, but outside of sporting events it hasn't happened. Nobody wants to be the first to take the $200m gamble, because if you get it wrong you'll never work in this town again

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21 hours ago, Delargey said:

 

Why wouldn't the on demand model work? Is it because they would miss out on a second wave of home rentals and purchases?

 

Thats, plus piracy. All these VODs that have been released during COVID all ended up on piracy websites within a day of release. Imagine the money the studios big and small are going to lose out on by releasing stuff at home the same day at the cinema. 

 

I've always thought that if they are set on releasing new films at home it should be staggered. Start at the Cinema, then 3 months later release on VOD to rent, then 3 months after that, release the physical/digital copies to own.

 

 

 

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