Jump to content
rllmuk

PlayStation 5: Launch is 19/11/20. £360 digital, £450 full fat. Launch games £70?!?!


Recommended Posts

15 hours ago, Alex W. said:

Correct, it has completely different charging connectors and a completely different dock.

 

image.thumb.png.f1d7e0a1b540f0f8f4332c0336913b41.png

 

That's probably like £60.

 

PS4 one was £25 which I figured was ok.  Surely this thing will be same price? 

  • Empathy 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

The features are a built in microphone, adaptive triggers and haptic feedback - described as basically being HD rumble. Anyone waiting on seminal gameplay dependent on these features can PM me about some very special beans I have for sale. 
 

3 minutes ago, Uncle Mike said:

If no-one's doing multiplayer, and you get a free controller in the box, then why does it even matter?


Because if you want to do any PS5 local multiplayer at all, you need to buy new £50 pads.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Uncle Mike said:

If no-one's doing multiplayer, and you get a free controller in the box, then why does it even matter?


Because it would be nice, their immediate competitor is doing it, and the explanation for why they’re not doing it is weak.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Alex W. said:


Because it would be nice, their immediate competitor is doing it, and the explanation for why they’re not doing it is weak.


It’s strong if you’re a Sony shareholder or fanboy.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, rafaqat said:

 

PS4 one was £25 which I figured was ok.  Surely this thing will be same price? 


Yeah probably, I was taking the piss a bit. Maybe £30-35 because of inflation.

Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a non story to me in all senses. A new controller is standard practice and only stands out because Microsoft is taking such a user friendly approach in comparison this time.

The feature set itself will probably only be utilised fully by first party. Third party studios can't heavily integrate in a meaningful way where there's no parity with the Xbox versions in the functionality of the controller. (So I guess I think Sony should have added compatibility with PS4 pads in but I don't really care personally)

  • Upvote 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Like, I'm sure no-one at Sony is particularly crying real salty tears about how this will encourage people to buy extra controllers and charging docks etc, but they've made a new controller that does new things. I think the idea that they're going to hamstring that capability by making it so nothing it does can be made very essential (by supporting the previous controller that doesn't do those things) seems unrealistic. I'm surprised people aren't getting this, rather than just being a little disappointed.

 

MS are making the more obviously customer-friendly choice, sure. I won't need to buy new controllers if I get the XSX.

 

Like I say, I think it's fine if you don't hugely believe the new haptics etc are going to add enough to make it a worthwhile upgrade. But it's clearly the pitch that it does. It seems unrealistic that they'd choose to undermine that. Assuming the PS5 BC is as good as we hope, it'll still mean I get to use the DS4s I have when I want to play Towerfall or Overcooked 2 or whatever.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think “it’s standard practice” is a very poor justification which seems to benefit no one but Sony.

 

9 minutes ago, Uncle Mike said:

Like, I'm sure no-one at Sony is particularly crying real salty tears about how this will encourage people to buy extra controllers and charging docks etc, but they've made a new controller that does new things. I think the idea that they're going to hamstring that capability by making it so nothing it does can be made very essential (by supporting the previous controller that doesn't do those things) seems unrealistic. I'm surprised people aren't getting this, rather than just being a little disappointed.

 

 

Anything that’s going to be multiplatform can’t do anything essential anyway, and we’ve already covered the fact that everyone will have a PS5 controller included in the box. Games on Switch are able to not support various controller configurations if the gameplay requires it. No reason Sony couldn’t have done that here.

 

So you seem to be arguing for lots of people to have to go out and buy £50 controllers so that developers making PS5 exclusive, local multiplayer games can make games which absolutely require a built in microphone, HD rumble and adaptive triggers. This seems like an unusual position to me, but ok.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Uncle Mike said:

"Because it would be nice" in the same post as "the explanation for why they’re not doing it is weak" was amusing though.


Doing things because they made the fan base happy rather than because they were the most profitable choice is what sold PS4s. At the end of the day the PS5 is only backwards compatible because it’s “nice”. The Series X only works with Xbox One peripherals because it’s “nice”. The Xbox accessible controller exists because it’s “nice”.

 

They are both selling - and I will keep stressing this - two boxes which are more similar to each other than the launch PS2 is to the final hardware revision.* “Nice” things and having strong justifications for not doing them is ultimately what will actually matter over the next 18 months.

*Okay, this is a bit of an exaggeration. But they’re more similar to each other than the PS4 is to the Pro and the Xbox One is to the Xbox One X.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Remember when the sixaxis came out and every first party Sony third person game had some kind of balancing bit where you had to cross something whilst tilting the controller to keep your balance?

 

Hopefully we get something a bit better than that with the haptic stuff.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Sarlaccfood said:

Can’t believe no PS5 stuff in this Thursday direct.
 

Wtf are they doing.


Probably getting stuff out of the way. The coming months will be huge for PS4, with games like FIFA, the new CoD and Crash 4. According to Bloomberg, more news is coming after the upcoming State of Play.
 


That said, there will be PS5 stuff in the SoP, just not any new or WWS stuff. But perhaps new stuff from the likes of Deathloop, Resident Evil Village and Bugsnax.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Isaac said:

Remember when the sixaxis came out and every first party Sony third person game had some kind of balancing bit where you had to cross something whilst tilting the controller to keep your balance?

 

Hopefully we get something a bit better than that with the haptic stuff.

 

Yes. In fairness, I don't think I'm expecting a lot of compelling haptic stuff - especially early doors. I guess that pre-installed Astrobot game/demo will be the showcase of what the controller is envisaged to do.

 

Time will tell if this is only a cynical gouge on our pockets or also a functionally interesting upgrade, I guess.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If Sony claimed you could play PS5 games with a DualShock 4 then it becomes a commitment, something that has to be part of certification; even if a developer is making a single player game they still have to account for someone using a DS4, undermining the inclusion of any DualSense features.

 

Microsoft's new controller is functionally the same as the previous one outside the addition of a Share button, which isn't something developers would have to account for anyway.

 

I wouldn't be too surprised if PS5 games like Overcooked will be able to support DS4s as additional controllers but it would be opt-in rather than a requirement, much like integrating arcade sticks or racing wheels.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

How does supporting a Dual Shock 4 “undermine” the features of the Dual Sense?

 

And won’t developers already have to deal with certifying for two controllers? As of this year PS4 titles have to pass certification on a PS5 in backwards compatibility mode, which would presumably mean they have to pass certification with Dual Sense.

 

That’s the bit that really makes this a headache. The PS5 being backwards compatible means that they’ve already done all this work in one direction, and they’re limited on how much the Dual Sense’s design can vary from its predecessor because it still needs to be able to play PS4 games. If you’re going to eat all those compromises and all that work why not go the extra six feet for a bit of good PR?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Let’s be honest it’s purely financial - they make shit loads of money from selling extra peripherals, so unless they’re playing catch up like MS they have no compelling reason to alter their course. 

  • Upvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Stanley said:

Let’s be honest it’s purely financial - they make shit loads of money from selling extra peripherals, so unless they’re playing catch up like MS they have no compelling reason to alter their course. 


I think Sony don’t realise that in a lot of senses they already are playing catch-up with Microsoft. If they’re not careful the easy distinction between the PS5 and the Xbox Series X for every lazy pundit is going to be “Xbox does this, but PS5 doesn’t”.

 

They’re playing this very conservatively with everything but the console hardware itself. Conservative helped them when Microsoft was fucking itself in to oblivion with Kinect, TV, streaming and game licensing but it’s less of a compelling strategy when the competitor is laying out a banquet of cheap or free stuff and glossy features.

  • Upvote 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

The reason the Dual Shock 4 charger works so well is if you have two pads you drop in the dead one grab the next one and you're back playing within 10 seconds or so. After buying the PS5 I'll be needing a second pad and the charging dock to do this so that's at least another £75 out of me. Looks like they will go on Santa's list instead (assuming you can actually buy them - I remember extra dual shocks and chargers being scarce last time around) 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Alex W. said:


I think Sony don’t realise that in a lot of senses they already are playing catch-up with Microsoft. If they’re not careful the easy distinction between the PS5 and the Xbox Series X for every lazy pundit is going to be “Xbox does this, but PS5 doesn’t”.

 

They’re playing this very conservatively with everything but the console hardware itself. Conservative helped them when Microsoft was fucking itself in to oblivion with Kinect, TV, streaming and game licensing but it’s less of a compelling strategy when the competitor is laying out a banquet of cheap or free stuff and glossy features.


They probably know that most people will buy a PS5 anyway. They are doing so well financially (their latest quarter alone is better than any Xbox quarter in history), that they simply don't have to. With BC in place (presumably) most people will simply migrate over from PS4 to PS5.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Apple won’t give you anything because it’s “nice” will take away the things you love, not add the things you want and think about not even giving you a charging cable. Then charge you four times more than the competition, which you will pay.
 

Consoles by contrast are like Santa Claus raining down Skittles from his magic sleigh.

Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Alex W. said:


I think Sony don’t realise that in a lot of senses they already are playing catch-up with Microsoft. If they’re not careful the easy distinction between the PS5 and the Xbox Series X for every lazy pundit is going to be “Xbox does this, but PS5 doesn’t”.

 

They’re playing this very conservatively with everything but the console hardware itself. Conservative helped them when Microsoft was fucking itself in to oblivion with Kinect, TV, streaming and game licensing but it’s less of a compelling strategy when the competitor is laying out a banquet of cheap or free stuff and glossy features.

I don’t see it myself, Xbox hardware is generally cheaper than PlayStation, Game Pass is here now, the backwards compatibility programme is complete - it’s earned them a lot of goodwill, and, decent PR - but they’re still trailing.

Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Alex W. said:

How does supporting a Dual Shock 4 “undermine” the features of the Dual Sense?

 

And won’t developers already have to deal with certifying for two controllers? As of this year PS4 titles have to pass certification on a PS5 in backwards compatibility mode, which would presumably mean they have to pass certification with Dual Sense.

 

Alex, you're normally really sensible. I'm surprised you don't seem to get the argument being made (even if you then decide you disagree.)

 

A PS4 BC game yes, needs to be tested that it works fine using a DS5. But it doesn't need to make that DS5 do anything a DS4 doesn't. So it'll rumble, and maybe there's gyroscope support and maybe the speaker activates etc.

 

The promise of the PS5 and DS5 though, (and again, I am fine if you're sceptical about the promise - it doesn't change that it's being made however) is that the new/new and better haptics etc create new gameplay stuff. As I say, I think that's yet to be proven. But that's part of the sales pitch for PS5 - that the controller is great, and opens up new avenues for feedback etc.

 

If you then say, "but also, all PS5 games will fully work on a DS4" you're clearly a: reducing the scope of things in that DS5 (as a developer) that you can take for granted and make essential to gameplay and b: telling everyone it's not actually all that impactful. Because it won't be mandatory, and won't make a difference, and ultimately reduces the chances it'll be developed for. I think it's unrealistic that Sony would choose to do that.

 

Does it also mean they can look forwards to controller sales and the like? Sure. Do I have an idea how much the internal Sony business guys are looking forwards to that versus whoever designed the features thinking they're brilliant? No.

 

I don't think anything I am saying is especially hard to grasp. Even if, as I am taking real pains to emphasise, you simply don't believe the haptics etc will add enough to make it worthwhile.

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, womblingfree said:

Apple won’t give you anything because it’s “nice” will take away the things you love, not add the things you want and think about not even giving you a charging cable. Then charge you four times more than the competition, which you will pay.
 

Consoles by contrast are like Santa Claus raining down Skittles from his magic sleigh.


They have some of the best accessibility work in computing and maintain software compatibility and support on hardware that’s five years old. When it was suggested that they were throttling old iPhones they explained why it’s actually because of their shitty batteries and took a big loss on replacing batteries for people. They position themselves as the software company that doesn’t sell your data to advertisers and doesn’t even want to gather your data in the first place. They know how to compete on “nice”. 
 

Microsoft’s already spinning this as a plus for the Xbox platform and the press are following them. It’s a bad PR move. That should be obvious.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Alex W. said:

How does supporting a Dual Shock 4 “undermine” the features of the Dual Sense?

As I obviously haven't used one it's hard for me to be specific, but let's say you have a section in your game where the character's torch gives out and you're cast into complete darkness. The player traversed the area when fully lit a little earlier, so they'll be familiar with the texture of the correct path – maybe it's a bunch of planks over a spike pit or something, and the rotten ones that will give way are noticeably more 'squishy' – meaning the player can navigate back to the entrance by using feel. If you need to support a DualShock 4 that section either never gets past the whiteboard stage or extra work has to be put in circumvent it for those using an old controller.

 

To give a less novel example, consider the variable resistance triggers. You add a bite point to the accelerator – akin to the GameCube's full squeeze click – which activates a vehicle's boost. It feels great and frees up one of the face buttons for another function but people using a DS4 keep accidentally activating the boost and messing up their racing. Do you remove the feature? Relegate it to an option? Add in extra UI and sound effects to try and make up for the DS4's lack of tactile feedback?

 

If you want people to experiment and try new things, telling them they also have to account for the old way of doing things is a great way to stifle creativity.

  • Upvote 6
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Uncle Mike said:

 

Alex, you're normally really sensible. I'm surprised you don't seem to get the argument being made (even if you then decide you disagree.)

 

A PS4 BC game yes, needs to be tested that it works fine using a DS5. But it doesn't need to make that DS5 do anything a DS4 doesn't. So it'll rumble, and maybe there's gyroscope support and maybe the speaker activates etc.

 

The promise of the PS5 and DS5 though, (and again, I am fine if you're sceptical about the promise - it doesn't change that it's being made however) is that the new/new and better haptics etc create new gameplay stuff. As I say, I think that's yet to be proven. But that's part of the sales pitch for PS5 - that the controller is great, and opens up new avenues for feedback etc.

 

If you then say, "but also, all PS5 games will fully work on a DS4" you're clearly a: reducing the scope of things in that DS5 (as a developer) that you can take for granted and make essential to gameplay and b: telling everyone it's not actually all that impactful. Because it won't be mandatory, and won't make a difference, and ultimately reduces the chances it'll be developed for. I think it's unrealistic that Sony would choose to do that.

 

Does it also mean they can look forwards to controller sales and the like? Sure. Do I have an idea how much the internal Sony business guys are looking forwards to that versus whoever designed the features thinking they're brilliant? No.

 

I don't think anything I am saying is especially hard to grasp. Even if, as I am taking real pains to emphasise, you simply don't believe the haptics etc will add enough to make it worthwhile.


Ah, I should probably point out an assumption I’ve made them - haptic feedback and force triggers, like rumble on the current gen consoles, is without a shadow of a doubt, completely optional, it will be mandatory to allow users to disable it for accessibility reasons, and games will be expected to pass certification with those features disabled.

 

Sony can certainly encourage developers to include these new features but I absolutely do not believe it (having those features in software) will be mandated. I don’t even think it will be a requirement (having those features in hardware) for a third-party controller to be certified.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Alex W. said:

 

Microsoft’s already spinning this as a plus for the Xbox platform and the press are following them. It’s a bad PR move. That should be obvious.

It will only translate into bad PR when MS overtake them. I mean what would you rather have, all your old controllers working on your new console or Spider-Man, God of War, etc. 
 

Every PS5 comes with a Dual Sense, every Series X comes with their (MS) pad - one has all new features the other is pretty much the same as the last one, which would you rather have? 
 

And whilst we’re talking PR look at the response to Halo Infinite, are old peripherals enough to overcome that? 

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Alex W. I was more commenting on their eagerness to ditch legacy technology, not adopt what people assume are going to be industry standards, moot the idea of not giving you a charging cable and then charge you an arm and a leg. And five years? Console owners expect backwards compatibility with software they bought back in the 90’s, while I can’t even open my old iMovie files. 
 

I’ve been living in the Apple walled garden for decades and am used to it, it’s just funny to see the contrast between what Apple users are used to and what console users expect. When it’s Apple ditching technology it’s progress, when it’s consoles it’s lack of respect for the fanbase.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, womblingfree said:

@Alex W. I was more commenting on their eagerness to ditch legacy technology, not adopt what people assume are going to be industry standards, moot the idea of not giving you a charging cable and then charge you an arm and a leg. And five years? Console owners expect backwards compatibility with software they bought back in the 90’s, while I can’t even open my old iMovie files. 
 

I’ve been living in the Apple walled garden for decades and am used to it, it’s just funny to see the contrast between what Apple users are used to and what console users expect. When it’s Apple it’s progress, when it’s consoles it’s lack of respect for the fanbase.


I am not quite sure what you are arguing against but I’m sure I didn’t say it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • gospvg changed the title to PlayStation 5 - Showcase Wednesday, September 16 at 9pm
  • Pob pinned this topic
  • Pob unpinned this topic

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. Use of this website is subject to our Privacy Policy, Terms of Use, and Guidelines.