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PlayStation 5 - Next gen is expensive


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21 hours ago, mansizerooster said:

There's juicy rumors that Sony are aiming at full back compat with all previous PS consoles. 

 

Just imagine.

 

I'll be happy if that emerges as a decent chunk of each machines catalogue on PSNow, but if they make it disc-based too, then Sony have instantly sold me a PS5.

 

I think PS3 would be the main problem. PS1 is trivial and PS2 could already be partially done in software on PS3. I wonder how much putting PS2 hardware in a PS5 (like they did with launch PS3s) would cost these days.

 

Probably would provide more reliable BC than having to have people tweaking the software side of things for a catalog as enormous as the PS2's.

 

 

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51 minutes ago, HarryBizzle said:

 

I think PS3 would be the main problem. PS1 is trivial and PS2 could already be partially done in software on PS3. I wonder how much putting PS2 hardware in a PS5 (like they did with launch PS3s) would cost these days.

 

Probably would provide more reliable BC than having to have people tweaking the software side of things for a catalog as enormous as the PS2's.

 

 

 

Even if it cost just a dollar, these corporations think that's a dollar probably not worth spending if they multiple it out by number of consoles sold that's quite a lot of money "wasted".   100 milion PS4's sold.  They'll be thinking hard about whether that $1 component will bring back 100 million dollars. Or whatever their calculations are. 

 

I'd love full backwards compatibility.   I reckon we won't see it.    

 

 

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28 minutes ago, rafaqat said:

 

Even if it cost just a dollar, these corporations think that's a dollar probably not worth spending if they multiple it out by number of consoles sold that's quite a lot of money "wasted".   100 milion PS4's sold.  They'll be thinking hard about whether that $1 component will bring back 100 million dollars. Or whatever their calculations are. 

 

I'd love full backwards compatibility.   I reckon we won't see it.    

 

 

While I think there's some truth in what you're saying, and probably the main reason Sony couldn't be arsed with BC this gen (not even PS1 and 2) alongside cheapo rereleases and remasters instead turning in a nice profit, I figure it cost Microsoft a lot more to implement their software/virtual machine- based solution with a dedicated team ensuring each individual title worked and ran even better than before. But they did it anyway. Maybe they wouldn't have bothered if the XB1 was outselling the PS4, but now that they're in it and have promised full BC with XB1 (and 360/OG titles already on BC) for their next console, can Sony take the chance that not bothering again won't affect them? If their main competitor is doing it and keeping in mind that a generational change usually means the game is up for grabs again?

 

I hope the rumour about PS1/2/3/4 BC on PS5 are true... We shall see.

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PS4 compatibility is presumably more or less a given. And PS1/PS2, technically, also. (The existing rereleases are played under an emulator on PS4 anyway, aren't they?) It's PS3 that's presumably technically in question.

 

And then more generally, what they do at a product/commercial level. 

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I really hope they don't include PS2 BC, although this is mainly because I've lost the disk wallet that contained my PS2 games and it would cause me anguish to know I could play all those games again if I hadn't mislaid it.

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Earlier generations than PS3 seem unlikely. The remaining PS1 and PS2 physical game owners have to be a tiny market and few publishers will be eager to dust off the ancient contracts and get those games on the online store. As for PS3, Sony already do this on PS Now and I imagine they’ll feel that’s sufficient.

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11 minutes ago, Horribleman said:

I wouldn't play older games really. Maybe the odd one but I don't really care about backward compatibility. 

 

I totally get that it's important for people though. 


it would be interesting because I think if Sony included it then immediately all the “I used to love...” nostalgia would disappear because there would be no barrier to people satisfying their cravings.

 

Can’t wait to play Rocket League on my super powerful PS5 though.

Expect a lot of PS5 patches....maybe Sony won’t allow it :O

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16 minutes ago, Alex W. said:

Earlier generations than PS3 seem unlikely. The remaining PS1 and PS2 physical game owners have to be a tiny market and few publishers will be eager to dust off the ancient contracts and get those games on the online store. As for PS3, Sony already do this on PS Now and I imagine they’ll feel that’s sufficient.

It would be interesting to know how well BC titles have sold on XB1. Bar one single exception due to rights issues, every BC title has also been made available to buy digitally. Of course there's the factor that OG Xbox titles often look like proper remasters on XB1 due to running at 4k etcetera (which makes them feel less old), but I can imagine that there's more people buying them up than we'd assume.

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I would be very surprised if Xbox One BC was a money-spinner in its own right. I would have thought the point was to ensure people stay on the platform when a new generation comes around. I can't see PS1 and PS2 games being a huge draw in that regard - how many PS2s or PS1s are still in use, and haven't been binned or bundled off to CEX / Cash Converters / charity shops / car boot sales? The time to try and retain all the PS2 customers was in 2006.

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I still have my PS3, solely for the comfort blanket of BC (which I never use) but the things I have it for are my digital purchases. Outrun, Super Puzzle Fighter, Shatter, Cubixx, Stardust, Everyday Shooter, and so on.

 

I loved those games, and if my PS5 let me download them and play them again I'd be delighted. But I doubt I'd pay for PS Now to do so, and I don't think I'd buy them again (unless they were cheap.) I'm really doubtful the world works so that businesses can make no money from me, so I'm not getting my hopes up.

 

MS did change the game on this, so maybe the pressure will come from there? But my expectation is for PS4 BC only, really.

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22 minutes ago, K said:

I would be very surprised if Xbox One BC was a money-spinner in its own right. I would have thought the point was to ensure people stay on the platform when a new generation comes around. I can't see PS1 and PS2 games being a huge draw in that regard - how many PS2s or PS1s are still in use, and haven't been binned or bundled off to CEX / Cash Converters / charity shops / car boot sales? The time to try and retain all the PS2 customers was in 2006.

I don't think it's a money spinner, but I imagine it's an attractive prospect for the publishers in question to get some money for their old Xbox games versus none at all when someone buys an old game in CEX etcetera.

 

And on Xbox One it was also used as a nice incentive sometimes. Pre-order Fallout 4 and get digital Fallout 3 on XB1 for free for example. In that particular instance it was win-win; Bethesda could offer a near-zero effort and cost pre-order incentive, and gamers unfortunate enough to have bought Fallout 4 could play a lovely enhanced version of Fallout 3 instead :)

 

And my most important argument is of course that I personally really like having these older games on my shiny new hardware. So I will always argue in favor of BC.

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I still have a pile of old PSOne/2 discs I intend to play through, I'd love full backwards compatibility and it would have me on board day one.

 

If the PS5 doesn't allow me to at least play my PS4 games then I'm moving across to the next MS offering. If they'd have had their BC plans laid out back in the day I'd be using the Bone as my main console.

 

The upside of allowing full BC? If I'm playing Suikoden on my PS1/2 that's all I'm doing. But if I'm playing it on the PS5 there's an opportunity for them to tempt me over to their storefront or tempting friends of mine to buy a digital copy seeing that one of their friends are playing a half remembered game.

 

The thing that's going to make it impossible though is music licencing. Even with what might have been Sony only tracks back in the day catalogues would have been traded and onsold in the past two decades.

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7 minutes ago, Mr. Gerbik said:

I don't think it's a money spinner, but I imagine it's an attractive prospect for the publishers in question to get some money for their old Xbox games versus none at all when someone buys an old game in CEX etcetera.

 

And on Xbox One it was also used as a nice incentive sometimes. Pre-order Fallout 4 and get digital Fallout 3 on XB1 for free for example. In that particular instance it was win-win; Bethesda could offer a near-zero effort and cost pre-order incentive, and gamers unfortunate enough to have bought Fallout 4 could play a lovely enhanced version of Fallout 3 instead :)

 

And my most important argument is of course that I personally really like having these older games on my shiny new hardware. So I will always argue in favor of BC.

 

I am 100% in favour of BC, but I suspect that the work needed around re-licensing soundtracks, re-certifying games, QA-ing them, and everything else you'd need to do to get them on the PSN store or Xbox Live would outweigh the actual return you'd get for them. Look at the limited number of PS2 games on PSN - AFAIK, they're emulated, so there's presumably relatively little overhead in terms of adding more games, but there are only a tiny handful. If they were popular, there would surely be more, right?

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7 hours ago, K said:

 

I am 100% in favour of BC, but I suspect that the work needed around re-licensing soundtracks, re-certifying games, QA-ing them, and everything else you'd need to do to get them on the PSN store or Xbox Live would outweigh the actual return you'd get for them. Look at the limited number of PS2 games on PSN - AFAIK, they're emulated, so there's presumably relatively little overhead in terms of adding more games, but there are only a tiny handful. If they were popular, there would surely be more, right?

There are plenty of 360 and OG Xbox games on the Xbox Store though. But in that case (afaik) it's indeed because Microsoft themselves decided to put in the effort and put a dedicated team on it. And imho the way they did it changed my expectations for BC on consoles significantly, with the next-gen consoles I expect far better than just being able to play a PS2 game as is on PS5 - I want a rock-solid performance like EDF2017 running at 60FPS, I want it to look like a full-price remaster like OG Xbox Ninja Gaiden running at 4k with AA and stuff and looking goddamn gorgeous even by modern standards. I want high quality BC that makes the entire market for remasters redundant.

 

My biggest concern (concerny?) with the PS5 is that 1) I just don't see Sony putting in the same effort and 2) even if they somehow did, I don't know if they can achieve the same amazing results and 3) since it's Sony I wouldn't be shocked if they simply didn't bother at all.

 

I appreciate that a hobbyist like me isn't their main market and even on a forum like this one there are loads of people who only want to play the newest blockbusters. But personally I would be disappointed if Sony didn't at least attempt to counter Microsoft's BC even a little bit.

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1 hour ago, Horribleman said:

I wouldn't play older games really. Maybe the odd one but I don't really care about backward compatibility. 

 

I totally get that it's important for people though. 

 

Same for me, have zero interest in it tbh or rather not a selling point for me but I can understand why it's important to others. Give me the new games please.

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2 hours ago, hub2 said:

I'm interested in forward compatibility and whether I can play PS6 games.


This is a joke but wasn’t Microsoft’s whole “ending console generations” palaver about doing this? Like with phones you’d still be able to play the new games, probably in an ugly way, on older hardware?

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7 minutes ago, Alex W. said:


This is a joke but wasn’t Microsoft’s whole “ending console generations” palaver about doing this? Like with phones you’d still be able to play the new games, probably in an ugly way, on older hardware?

And that's exactly what they're offering with Xcloud. All dem Xbox games on any platform, not tied to a specific box.

 

Hell, if they are allowed to release the Xbox app on PSN you'll be able to stream Halo 6 to your PS5!

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1 hour ago, Alex W. said:


This is a joke but wasn’t Microsoft’s whole “ending console generations” palaver about doing this? Like with phones you’d still be able to play the new games, probably in an ugly way, on older hardware?

 

Actually as soon as I posted it I thought that well, Playstation Now could do that. So yeah, if streaming is the next, next gen then it could be forward compatible,

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11 hours ago, Mr Combo Breaker said:

 

I'd quite like a version where all the components are out in the open and stuck on a bit of wood so you can hang it on your wall like art

 

1000x2000px-LL-32f1c353_02-DSC_4103.jpeg

 

classy AF


The containment unit is working well, I see. 

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Everyone is different when it comes to BC. I can understand why some people would want it but personally if it makes the thing more expensive or diverts resources and focus that could have been used to make the rest of the PS5 experience better then i would prefer they don’t do it. 

A simplistic stab at feature prioritisation could go something like this:

 

The proposition of BC for some users is appealing and comforting but its actual use is questionable. Of those that say they want it how many people would actual use it?
 

Cost of implementing BC - potentially high to do it well.
Business value - very low. It’s not a money spinner.

User value - limited to a small number of users. 
 

How many potential buyers would be disappointed or upset at the lack of BC?

 

Of that number how many would say it’s omission would stop them from making a purchase? And of that number how many would actually go on to make a purchase?

 

Risk vs reward, for the business. My guess is that the numbers would suggest it’s a no brainier to not do it and that shit would get punted to the back of the backlog.

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