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PlayStation 5 - Next gen is expensive


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55 minutes ago, DonRumsfeld said:

Any recommendations for an external drive to play the PS4 games off?

Depends on your budget, really.

 

A large mechanical HDD, say 4TB, will run you £60-80. It'll hold every game you own but loading times will be more or less the same as running the games on a PS4; once you're used to next-gen this will be painful.

 

Your next option up is a SATA SSD twinned with a USB adapter. This'll cost about twice as much as an HDD for half the space – so £160 for 2TB – but loading times will be around 2-4 times as fast as a mechanical drive; the improvement will vary based on what's being loaded.

 

Finally you have an NVMe SSD with a USB enclosure. This'll be more expensive than a SATA SSD, but it's possible that you'll be able to get even more improved load times. Unfortunately we kind of need to wait for someone to test this, however, as whether you'll see any real benefit comes down to all the bits of technology in the chain, namely the USB ports on the console. Digital Foundry's analysis of Series X loading times will likely hold true for PS5 as well, but the performance of external NVMes might differ as the PlayStation's USB ports support up to 10 Gbps in comparison to the XSX's more standard 5 Gbps. Who knows what bottlenecks might stop this making a difference, though, so I'd wait for someone else to find out for you.

 

In terms of a specific recommendation, I've gone for this no-name 2TB SATA SSD in a USB 3.1 enclosure, which currently comes to about £140. Naturally you can save a lot by opting for 1TB instead, and DF recommended this cheaper adapter which is now inevitably unavailable.

 

Ultimately if you don't need something right this second I'd wait, both for testing and price reductions. SSD prices are falling currently, so if you hold out for Black Friday there will probably be some decent deals to be had.

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Oh, one other factor I forgot to mention: mechanical HDDs can make a lot of noise due to vibration, depending on where they're stowed. Might be a consideration if you'll be sleeping in the same room or have a particularly sonorous TV stand.

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1 hour ago, Ferine said:

Finally you have an NVMe SSD with a USB enclosure. This'll be more expensive than a SATA SSD, but it's possible that you'll be able to get even more improved load times. Unfortunately we kind of need to wait for someone to test this, however, as whether you'll see any real benefit comes down to all the bits of technology in the chain, namely the USB ports on the console. Digital Foundry's analysis of Series X loading times will likely hold true for PS5 as well, but the performance of external NVMes might differ as the PlayStation's USB ports support up to 10 Gbps in comparison to the XSX's more standard 5 Gbps. Who knows what bottlenecks might stop this making a difference, though, so I'd wait for someone else to find out for you.

 

So far Richard Leadbetter's findings have just confirmed that the Next Gen consoles behave pretty much the same as PCs do with SSDs and games, there is minimal advantage for faster NVMe drives when running in legacy mode.

 

It's going to take games specifically coded to take advantage of the PS5 I/O controller to actually unlock the faster transfer speeds possible via NVMe. For legacy games, SATA is the best price/performance, just like it is on PC for games where the fastest PCIe 4.0 SSDs are barely any faster than mediocre SATA ones, despite the many times faster linear transfer speeds they can do if you are moving a lot of data.

 

Save the NVMe drives for installing internally to run PS5-native games.

 

This is the first released PS5-compatible NVMe drive from Samsung, from how it loads legacy games, you'd think it was a fucking waste of money:

 

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The same Final Fantasy XIV loading test done on a whole lot of different drives:

 

XVBmn4V.png

 

 

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2 hours ago, Ferine said:

A large mechanical HDD, say 4TB, will run you £60-80. It'll hold every game you own but loading times will be more or less the same as running the games on a PS4; once you're used to next-gen this will be painful.


I’m really concerned about these fast load times, in the good old days I could make a decent sandwich while I waited on a game to load, nowadays I can just about make a cup of tea while LOU2 loads, with the PS5 I’m going to be both parched and starving. Progress pah.

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5 hours ago, MansizeRooster said:

I'm genuinely shitting my pants with excitement to play RDR2 on a PS5 with a big sexy HDR OLED screen.

 

Am I right in assuming that HDR will make the snowy opening look absolutely sublime?


The PS4 version has a menu option to switch HDR off and it will look brilliant on an OLED. 

 

I can only assume Rockstar will be doing a PS5 version to sell another zillion copies to the same zillion people who bought it the first time around, too. 

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On 08/10/2020 at 19:51, Alex W. said:

They’re both very different, very interesting approaches to how to build a console that needs to dissipate about 300W of heat. Neither is, I think, particularly simple or represents any cut corners, both have their own economical aspects and expenses associated with them. Sony clearly thought the space and material costs of a heat sink were justified over the technological cost of a vapour chamber; I wonder if they also put a hard limit on how big they were going to allow the console to be in its slimmest dimension, even if that meant making it larger everywhere else and having a more involved air path. (The PS5 can fit in to a shelf that’s one inch narrower than Series X.)

 

But Series X’s cooling approach is very, very clever. Using a vapour chamber would look like a big leap if One X hadn’t already used it.

 

Vapour chambers are weird, they've started appearing on gaming laptops now and are surprisingly not-amazing compared to bog standard heatpipe-based coolers for some reason. The primary benefit of the vapour chamber design isn't really in the cooling itself, it's in the ability to do it in a smaller volume of space with the downsides of higher relative cost, which is I suppose why Sony's engineering team are able to claim their heatpipe design is as good as a vapour chamber. Most high-end GFX cards don't use them either, no matter how expensive those are.

 

A Dell thermal engineer explaining the differences:

 

 

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8 hours ago, MansizeRooster said:

I'm genuinely shitting my pants with excitement to play RDR2 on a PS5 with a big sexy HDR OLED screen.

 

Am I right in assuming that HDR will make the snowy opening look absolutely sublime?

You're wrong unfortunately. You can do that on ps4 already anyway. 

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7 hours ago, DonRumsfeld said:

Any recommendations for an external drive to play the PS4 games off?

 

Digital Foundry have done a video. Granted its for Xbox Series X but you can assume similar results for what PS5 will do for a HDD/SDD/NVME for PS4 games.   Essentially an SSD was the best balance of price/performance as long as you used a good SATA to USB bridge.  They said the Sabrent bridge was really good.

 

 

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7 hours ago, wretcherd said:

 

Can we take a moment to acknowledge how prescient this post was.

Had to look that up to check the meaning... Especially given some of the more bitey posts out there. Thanks! I don't expect it will happen again. 

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2 hours ago, mushashi said:

 

Vapour chambers are weird, they've started appearing on gaming laptops now and are surprisingly not-amazing compared to bog standard heatpipe-based coolers for some reason. The primary benefit of the vapour chamber design isn't really in the cooling itself, it's in the ability to do it in a smaller volume of space with the downsides of higher relative cost, which is I suppose why Sony's engineering team are able to claim their heatpipe design is as good as a vapour chamber. Most high-end GFX cards don't use them either, no matter how expensive those are.

 

A Dell thermal engineer explaining the differences:

 

 


Vapour chambers outperform heat pipes where it matters - smaller area size and require less moving air, it’s about efficiency not performance (albeit vapour chambers do outperform heat pipes) it’s an unnecessary cost on a gfx card as there are no constraints to size or airflow and not a huge regard for noise. The PS5 is so big because they went for a cheaper solution trading size for cost but as stated will end up with similar cooling performance.


 

 

 

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Stuck the 4tb passport drive in my PS4. Wow that was easy and quick. Why did I not know this was even a feature till now?

 

Now downloading every damn thing I’ve ever bought or been given.

 

4tb drive 3.68 usable.

seems excessive for a format?

maybe it’s just been a long time since I formatted a spinner

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1 hour ago, Harrisown said:

4tb drive 3.68 usable.

seems excessive for a format?

maybe it’s just been a long time since I formatted a spinner

Most of that 'loss' is due to human-friendly/deceptive labelling, where storage is always advertised in the decimal form of gigabytes (GB) whilst systems actually measure space in the binary gibibytes (GiB). I'm sure it doesn't help that Windows incorrectly labels things as being measured in GB whilst displaying the number of GiB.

 

A kilobyte (KB) is 1000 bytes whilst a kibibyte (KiB) is 1024 bytes. You can see how this discrepancy can lead to quite a divergence as you go up the scale into MiB (1024 KiB), GiB (1024 MiB), etc. As such, 4TB actually equates to 3.725 TiB in storage space.

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8 hours ago, Spacehost said:

Let’s not indulge hard drive makers by pretending this “kilobyte is 1000, kibibyte is 1024” is any more than this post hoc bullshit.

I have a lot of sympathy for this position, having grown up in the 80s and generally having to deal with large files measured in GiB, but it has been almost 25 years:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kibibyte

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16 minutes ago, footle said:

I have a lot of sympathy for this position, having grown up in the 80s and generally having to deal with large files measured in GiB, but it has been almost 25 years:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kibibyte

I'm a software engineer by trade, and I've literally just learned about this.

 

I was taught back in the day that 1Kb = 1024 bytes, and that was all I was told.

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23 minutes ago, MansizeRooster said:

I'm a software engineer by trade, and I've literally just learned about this.

 

I was taught back in the day that 1Kb = 1024 bytes, and that was all I was told.

Ditto, except at some point I drifted into architecture and ended up having to work how much storage to procure for TB-PB datasets (or TiB-PiB? You spend a lot of time ensuring you’ve got or are responding to the right SI prefix, and/or that everyone you’re working with is as well).
Annoying as hell though, even at the lower level: one data item is N GiB or is it GB, now I have 100000 of them and I need the infrastructure provider to provision argh.

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49 minutes ago, footle said:

Ditto, except at some point I drifted into architecture and ended up having to work how much storage to procure for TB-PB datasets (or TiB-PiB? You spend a lot of time ensuring you’ve got or are responding to the right SI prefix, and/or that everyone you’re working with is as well).
Annoying as hell though, even at the lower level: one data item is N GiB or is it GB, now I have 100000 of them and I need the infrastructure provider to provision argh.

The adoption of kibibytes etc outside of an obscure standards organisation definition in the late 90s has been largely driven in the 2000s onwards by equipment manufacturers wanting to justify selling people something smaller than it should be. That a "gigabyte" of SSD storage is made up up 1000 "mibibytes" of 1024 "kibibytes" should tell you all you need about their selective standards adoption.

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