PlayStation 5 - Next gen is expensive

[thesnwmn]

1 minute ago, Alex W. said:

I think the existence of all of these video modes is an acknowledgement that even with the new consoles developers still don’t know how to make a game with graphics they’re happy with, at a resolution they’re happy with, at 60 FPS, so they’re doing each of those separately as a compromise.

 

Maybe. But I think them being "happy" here is more about knowing how to please the consumer (or get them to buy your game rather than saying it looks like crap). Make a game running at 60 (or 120 fps) and some people might praise you for it but (assuming all things equal) it will look worse in screenshots and YouTube videos than the 30 fps shiny fest.

 

The modes sidestep that to some extent as now you can have shiny pictures and smooth gameplay. But in the end I think the games end up looking worse overall because of it. The old (like 5 years or so max) console approach of a single fixed setup meant it was and could be curated to produce a single look.

[sammy]

23 minutes ago, womblingfree said:

I invested in a C8 and a Sonos Beam last year.

 

If they think I’m upgrading to a 4k(8k??) 120hz TV and a Sonos Arc for Atmos just so I can play some imaginary games, most of which don’t even seem to be able to run at 60fps yet, well. My arse they can kiss.

 

Just gimme an upgraded PSVR, or any kind of VR on the Xbox.

Have you had any issues with audio delay with your setup? I’ve got a Beam and a C9, and have to output from the PS4 in LPCM - if I switch to Dolby digital I get massive audio delay which I can’t fix in tv, PS4 or Sonos settings.  It’s a pain in the arse as Dolby digital sounds much better to my ears. 

[Alex W.]

You routing the audio through the TV? LG sets are known to introduce massive audio lag with Dolby Digital signals. (And some, but less, lag with PCM.)

[AI]

Here's a point: If you have PSVR I wonder if you could play any supported 120fps games on that if your TV isn't able to (using cinema mode)? 

 

That PSVR panel can definitely display 1080p@120 which will probably be near the max resolution anyway of supported 120fps games.

 

Hmm. I suppose it will only be 540p per eye, but it's better than having to fork out for a new TV.

[Alex W.]

PSVR is 1080x960 on each eye - half 1080p, but still more than 540p.

[MNFRMTMRRW]

1 hour ago, Pug said:

I'm still flip flopping over upgrading my tv. It seems the sweet spot is going to be 4K 60fps which my C8 will happily do and I'll no doubt love. But I have a massive FOMO on 120fps that, in the near future at least, I probably won't use.

Basically I'm pondering spending £2000+ just for the few instances of 2160p or 1440p with 120fps.

Is VRR another thing that should be seriously considered? I don't know if 4K 60fps is going to be locked in on most games and the preferred way to play anyway.

I wouldn't. 4K HDR is all that you need... I am actually going for another 2 years with my 1080p said which means I am probably one of the few that will enjoy his games at a stable 60fps (j/k aside, I know 4K sets can display and upscale 1080p). 

 

I am waiting for 120fps/VRR/HDMI 2.1 sets to enter the mainstream so there is good sub-1000 offers to be had.  Also still haven't decided on OLED vs LCD. 

[AI]

10 minutes ago, Alex W. said:

PSVR is 1080x960 on each eye - half 1080p, but still more than 540p.

D'oh! Course it is.

[womblingfree]

59 minutes ago, sammy said:

Have you had any issues with audio delay with your setup? I’ve got a Beam and a C9, and have to output from the PS4 in LPCM - if I switch to Dolby digital I get massive audio delay which I can’t fix in tv, PS4 or Sonos settings.  It’s a pain in the arse as Dolby digital sounds much better to my ears. 

 

Hmmm, I’ve not had any issues and have sold my PS4 now so can’t check what settings I was using. It’s attached through the  optical cable though.

[SmokeMeAKipper]

59 minutes ago, sammy said:

Have you had any issues with audio delay with your setup? I’ve got a Beam and a C9, and have to output from the PS4 in LPCM - if I switch to Dolby digital I get massive audio delay which I can’t fix in tv, PS4 or Sonos settings.  It’s a pain in the arse as Dolby digital sounds much better to my ears. 

I have this with my B7 hooked up via optical to my sound bar. Anything in Dolby Digital has audio lag introduced by the TV which can’t be offset in settings.  I have to have my PS4 and Xbox One X output in uncompressed stereo too, my sound bar doesn’t accept DTS. Very annoying but apparently a common problem with LG OLEDs across multiple models now though I think the X models with eARC this year may not have it. 

[Superunknown]

2 hours ago, JPL said:

Gooner needs to take control.

 

This petty sniping isn't helping.

[Harrisown]

14 minutes ago, SmokeMeAKipper said:

I have this with my B7 hooked up via optical to my sound bar. Anything in Dolby Digital has audio lag introduced by the TV which can’t be offset in settings.  I have to have my PS4 and Xbox One X output in uncompressed stereo too, my sound bar doesn’t accept DTS. Very annoying but apparently a common problem with LG OLEDs across multiple models now though I think the X models with eARC this year may not have it. 

Same problem here.

Theres no way to fix it. I go optical out from the PS4 to the Samsung ht7500 surround. I can’t turn Arc on with the 5.1 because it only outputs stereo from the PS4 then and without Arc I don’t get TV sound.

Going hdmi arc from PS4 introduces lag and make lip sync off.

going Bluetooth from tv to 5.1 is only stereo but strangely very low latency.

 

Its an absolute mess. 

Might just go With some headphones

 

I should mention I have a Samsung Q85r

[Chooch]

6 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

This petty sniping isn't helping.

Seemed pretty obviously in jest. 

[JPL]

9 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

This petty sniping isn't helping.

Isn't helping what? It was just a joke!

[Madness]

1 hour ago, sammy said:

Have you had any issues with audio delay with your setup? I’ve got a Beam and a C9, and have to output from the PS4 in LPCM - if I switch to Dolby digital I get massive audio delay which I can’t fix in tv, PS4 or Sonos settings.  It’s a pain in the arse as Dolby digital sounds much better to my ears. 

My Beam does this too, on a Samsung telly.  Makes it effectively useless for anything but the apps built in to the TV, so Blu rays are out of the question unless I watch in stereo. Very frustrating  !

[sofasurfer]

5 minutes ago, Madness said:

My Beam does this too, on a Samsung telly.  Makes it effectively useless for anything but the apps built in to the TV, so Blu rays are out of the question unless I watch in stereo. Very frustrating  !

Count me as another Samsung owner with the lip-sync issues. My Playbar is connected via optical to the OneConnect box and any DD content is painful to watch. I wish Sonos or Samsung would sort this out as it's been happening for years.

[womblingfree]

My Sonos Beam is connected directly to the LGC8 with an optical cable and I’ve never had any problems.

 

Are you guys set up differently? If so, try that.

[Rob G]

2 hours ago, Pug said:

I'm still flip flopping over upgrading my tv. It seems the sweet spot is going to be 4K 60fps which my C8 will happily do and I'll no doubt love. But I have a massive FOMO on 120fps that, in the near future at least, I probably won't use.

Basically I'm pondering spending £2000+ just for the few instances of 2160p or 1440p with 120fps.

Is VRR another thing that should be seriously considered? I don't know if 4K 60fps is going to be locked in on most games and the preferred way to play anyway.

 

I'm waiting to see what the prices do and think about it more if they drop I guess.

 

 

I'm in this exact position.  I have the 77" C8 and when the news of HDMI 2.1 (4k@120) was mentioned for XSX and PS5, I had 1st world FOMO of not being able to see the very best that the new consoles can do.  

 

From what I'm seeing of these early games, (and more importantly, adjusting expectations based on recent console generations) I suspect that the number of true 4K120 games will be quite limited and mainly the domain of indie titles (which I really enjoy).  On that basis, I am more inclined to run in 1080p120 mode for those games and 'suffer' with 4K@60 for the rest.

 

All that said, a £3.5k 77" CX might tip me over the edge! 

[Pug]

23 minutes ago, Rob_Pulsar said:

 

......All that said, a £3.5k 77" CX might tip me over the edge! 

 

If they drop that low I'll be in for a 77" as the size increase from a 65" would help persuade the purchase for me.

[MansizeRooster]

I genuinely don't think I'd be able to differentiate between 60fps and anything higher than that.

[Rob G]

3 minutes ago, Pug said:

 

If they drop that low I'll be in for a 77" as the size increase from a 65" would help persuade the purchase for me.

 

Yeah, that would soften the blow for sure.  I paid £3.5k for my 77" last August (from a rrp of £7k I think).  Costco are the ones to watch (I then got a price match from Crampton and Moore).

 

I will just say that 77" gaming can be a little too immersive / big depending on seating distance and game type.

[BarryL85]

Just now, MansizeRooster said:

I genuinely don't think I'd be able to differentiate between 60fps and anything higher than that.

 

I thought the same thing. I was wrong. 

 

I have a 144hz benq monitor and the difference between 60 and 144fps is the smoothness. It's the reason mobile phones are starting to come with 120hz panels it just gives you an incredibly smooth experience scrolling, Take your current phone (most likely 60hz panel) and scroll fast on a page of text and see if you can still read it clearly, it's unlikely however at 120hz the text would be scrolling smooth and legible.

 

Another example is a mouse pointer on a screen, move it fast at 60hz and you get the juddery trail, at 144hz there isn't.

 

There is diminishing returns, above 144hz the harder it would be to tell a difference but you would definitely be able to notice above 60.

[Uzi]

10 minutes ago, MansizeRooster said:

I genuinely don't think I'd be able to differentiate between 60fps and anything higher than that.

Fast paced games like competitive shooters or action games definitely feel perceptively smoother at 120fps

 

Single players or slower games though - meh 

[Hitcher]

2 hours ago, sammy said:

Have you had any issues with audio delay with your setup? I’ve got a Beam and a C9, and have to output from the PS4 in LPCM - if I switch to Dolby digital I get massive audio delay which I can’t fix in tv, PS4 or Sonos settings.  It’s a pain in the arse as Dolby digital sounds much better to my ears. 

That's the problem with using ARC; eARC is better though.

[sammy]

45 minutes ago, womblingfree said:

My Sonos Beam is connected directly to the LGC8 with an optical cable and I’ve never had any problems.

 

Are you guys set up differently? If so, try that.

Ahhh.  Are you still able to control the volume with the tv remote or do you need the app? I seem to remember there was a reason I didn’t want to use optical.  Pretty sure I’ve lost the little hdmi to optical adapter for the Beam now as well..

[HarryBizzle]

3 hours ago, Pug said:

I'm still flip flopping over upgrading my tv. It seems the sweet spot is going to be 4K 60fps which my C8 will happily do and I'll no doubt love. But I have a massive FOMO on 120fps that, in the near future at least, I probably won't use.

Basically I'm pondering spending £2000+ just for the few instances of 2160p or 1440p with 120fps.

Is VRR another thing that should be seriously considered? I don't know if 4K 60fps is going to be locked in on most games and the preferred way to play anyway.

 

I'm waiting to see what the prices do and think about it more if they drop I guess.

 

Your C8 will do 1080p at 120fps, so you can see for yourself how much you care about 120fps, which is what I'll be doing that with my B7.

 

I'll also be looking out to see a) how many games actually bother with 120fps once we're past the initial period of devs just giving us current gen games with a few whizz bang settings* and b) if framerates are dodgy enough to make VRR worthwhile.

 

I fully expect 120fps to be a luxury on cross gen games. We're already seeing that none of Sony's early first party single player games are going to support it. Halo Infinite will only be doing it in MP.

 

 

 

*I imagine devs want to include RT features in their big budget games and this is nigh on impossible to do when you've got an 8ms render time. And probably not worth it when very few people have 120Hz displays.

[HarryBizzle]

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2020-10-19-sony-to-optimise-the-ps5-fan-with-online-updates

 

Quote

"Various games will be released in the future, and data on the APU's behaviour in each game will be collected," Otori said. "We have a plan to optimise the fan control based on this data."

 

And

 

Quote

And here's an interesting tidbit: Otori said Sony made a transparent model of the chassis and observed the dry ice smoke flowing through it, taking temperature readings in each part of the system as the engineers made improvements.

 

 

[teddymeow]

I want a transparent PS5!

[Harrisown]

1 hour ago, Hitcher said:

That's the problem with using ARC; eARC is better though.

Why is eArc better is it because it can allow multichannel uncompressed thus removing any conversion?

How does someone get Atmos, presumably that’s got some processing.

I need to do some research but can anyone explain  just why there’s so many fecking Dolby  revisions. I got a 5.1 that does Neo Fusion II and a whole list of other things. Honestly I don’t care, just make all of the speakers work.

[thesnwmn]

41 minutes ago, HarryBizzle said:

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2020-10-19-sony-to-optimise-the-ps5-fan-with-online-updates

 

 

And

 

 

 

 

I mean it's good of them to say but I'd expect both those things really. Nothing really shocking is there.

 

System bios and fan controller in being updatable shocker (although you'd hope for the most part that fan speed is basically linked to system temperature so it should already be pretty good). Getting hot? Go a bit faster? Still a bit too hot? Go still faster. Obviously can be tuned to be more predictive so that it can try to move straight to the right speed based on current system load.

 

Although a transparent PS5 might not be quite as ugly.

 

[Sarlaccfood]

Any chance we can get a sound bar delay thread or something?