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PlayStation 5 - Next gen is expensive


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9 minutes ago, Clipper said:

and they should have stopped fucking about switching architecture etc to allow that sooner. Both are guilty with XBox going x86 to PowerPC and back and Sony going cell crackers and then to x86. They have only just realised it is best to do BC as digital stores now mean you piss off way more people when you tell them they can't play their old digital library anymore.

 

It is irritating to see gamers line up to say BC doesn't matter as they did at the start of last gen ... and still some said it when MS introduced it this time mid-gen. Turkeys voting for christmas.

 

We should be demanding better from MS and Sony not defending shit decisions :D

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think people were arguing that it isn't a worthwhile thing to have, but as far as sales are concerned this generation, it clearly doesn't matter. 

 

I mean look at Nintendo, Switch is their first console for two generations not to offer backwards compatibility but it didn't affect sales, in fact it's arguably a wise decision judging by the sales of Wii U ports.

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3 minutes ago, Stanley said:

I don't think people were arguing that it isn't a worthwhile thing to have, but as far as sales are concerned this generation, it clearly doesn't matter. 

 

I mean look at Nintendo, Switch is their first console for two generations not to offer backwards compatibility but it didn't affect sales, in fact it's arguably a wise decision judging by the sales of Wii U ports.

No it isn’t - that is the point - stop defending them! You are the consumer!

 

turkeys voting for Christmas - it is better to get people to pay for a port than it is to be able to play old copy via BC?

 

videogamers constantly set themselves up to be shafted 

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8 hours ago, Stanley said:

I don't think people were arguing that it isn't a worthwhile thing to have, but as far as sales are concerned this generation, it clearly doesn't matter. 

 

I mean look at Nintendo, Switch is their first console for two generations not to offer backwards compatibility but it didn't affect sales, in fact it's arguably a wise decision judging by the sales of Wii U ports.

Think Nintendo are quite good at reinventing and repackaging older content and ideas. With the Switch they struck it a bit lucky really as many (I'm guessing) won't have played the AAA Switch games on the WiiU before.

 

Anyway personally I'd like to have BC - however in reality I hardly ever go back and play the old games again. There is the odd exception though. Although MS haven't  made those games BC on the XBox One anyway.

 

Better to have it than not though... especially when you are building up a library of digital content. However like i mentioned in reality how often do you go back an play old games? Especially on an new spangly console?

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1 minute ago, Clipper said:

No it isn’t - that is the point - stop defending them! You are the consumer!

 

turkeys voting for Christmas - it is better to get people to pay for a port than it is to be able to play old copy via BC?

 

videogamers constantly set themselves up to be shafted 

I'm pro consumer and pro backwards compatibility that doesn't prevent me looking at the arguments for and against it from a business perspective. 

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3 minutes ago, MattyP said:

However like i mentioned in reality how often do you go back an play old games? Especially on an new spangly console?

Goes and checks sales for remasters and ports of old gen titles that where pumped out by Sony, MS and Nintendo from last gen.

 

Yep you are right - noone wants to play old games.

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2 minutes ago, Stanley said:

I'm pro consumer and pro backwards compatibility that doesn't prevent me looking at the arguments for and against it from a business perspective. 

as a gamer I dont give two fucks about the business perspective, as they don't give two fucks about the consumer :D

 

Gamers on forums spend way tooo much time worrying about corporations.

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6 minutes ago, Clipper said:

No it isn’t - that is the point - stop defending them! You are the consumer!

 

turkeys voting for Christmas - it is better to get people to pay for a port than it is to be able to play old copy via BC?

 

videogamers constantly set themselves up to be shafted 

Entirely depends . Ports , no. Remasters or remakes are a different matter .

 

i don’t care about bc , I buy a console to play new games , not old ones . But that’s just me .

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Just now, Clipper said:

as a gamer I dont give two fucks about the business perspective, as they don't give two fucks about the consumer :D

 

Gamers on forums spend way tooo much time worrying about corporations.

Ok well let's just stop discussing it and move on ^_^

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6 minutes ago, Stanley said:

Well that's another matter entirely.

no it isn't. Nintendo didn't bother until they realised that the consumers were finally going to bite back.

 

They only do stuff because the market kicks back at them - that is the ONLY thing these corporations care about with consumers.

 

 

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The audio acceleration is an odd one.

 

Have they licensed Creative’s patents?

Are they actually going to do something properly interesting (e.g. microphones in the controller to provide a room feedback loop, as for A.V. receiver or sonos trueplay tuning?)

is it actually just pointless bullshit given there’s possibly far more variation in audio devices/environments than there are in displays?

or is it a placeholder to get Sony’s variant of Bixby into the home?

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3 minutes ago, Clipper said:

no it isn't. Nintendo didn't bother until they realised that the consumers were finally going to bite back.

 

They only do stuff because the market kicks back at them - that is the ONLY thing they care about with consumers.

Their online service, account system etc. is still lacking compared to the competition, I don't think it's as simple as them not caring, they're just not entirely competent in that area.

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21 minutes ago, cubik said:

Can't see it being less than £500, maybe even £600 if it's got some fancy world beating SSD in it.

I doubt it'll do 60fps at 8K with raytracing either.

 

Whatever comes of this I'll probably end up pre-ordering and booking the day off work as soon as it's announced.

 

 

There is 0 chance of that. Even 4k 60 with raytracing is unlikely as it takes a 2080ti to even try and come close to doing that. Navi will not come close to 2080ti perfomance, it will be far close rasterization wise to the current 1660/1070, or vega 56 ish. 

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50 minutes ago, Clipper said:

so sony were dum-dums for removing PS2 compatibility from PS3?

 

They had it at launch as hardware BC - removed that - and then removed software BC

 

 

Cost cutting, wasn’t it? Considering ps3 was the “get two jobs” console...

 

(also security, same as removing Linux support)

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29 minutes ago, Clipper said:

Goes and checks sales for remasters and ports of old gen titles that where pumped out by Sony, MS and Nintendo from last gen.

 

Yep you are right - noone wants to play old games.

But evidently people want to buy them?!

 

Is it perhaps people who have missed them first time around? Not sure anyway. Bloody MS haven't given me the option to buy or play PGR4. Gits. :D

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1 minute ago, bear said:

Does 8K support actually mean anything beyond the PS5 being likely to have a HDMI 2.1 socket on the back of the console? 

 

Probably a lot of 8K last gen remasters and 2D games, an 8K drive and 8K streaming. I would be surprised if it did much high-end games content at that resolution.

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The thing about backwards compatibility is it needs to be a blanket console emulation that covers all games. As soon as expired licenses and tricky corporate issues start preventing games working or (even worse) removing ones that originally worked, it ruins the point.

 

I want security in knowing what I own will work and will always work.

 

What Microsoft is doing is great but it's devastating that things like Blur, London 2012 Olympics etc etc are just left in licensing limbo.

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3 minutes ago, Alex W. said:

 

Probably a lot of 8K last gen remasters and 2D games, an 8K drive and 8K streaming. I would be surprised if it did much high-end games content at that resolution.

 

8k is four times 4K, which is four times 1080p. There’s not going to be a 16 fold increase in graphics power for those last gen remasters, and you’re not going to notice the difference between that and a rescale to 4K anyway.

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6 minutes ago, Nate Dogg III said:

I suspect the 8k thing is more theoretical than anything. It’s a supported resolution and that’s about it. The rules changed this generation and platform holders now have to convince people that the launch console won’t be superseded three years later. 

That's a much better way of phrasing what I was getting at. There's a standard in place for an 8K connector so it makes sense for the console to use it. 

 

The fact HDMI 2.1 also adds support for adaptive sync/freesync and refresh rates about 60hz might not grab as many headlines but it's arguably more interesting as a feature games might actually support. 

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A quick summary of tech for non PC nerds

 

AMD are revealing their 7nm Ryzen CPUs and (proper not a rehashed vega) Navi GPU's at the end of May - this tech isn't just for the mainstream desktop market but obviously for consoles too (via custom chips). 7nm will be the smallest mainstream die for consumer grade desktop/console hardware (already in phones) and should mean more cores, higher frequencies at lower power draw ( and hopefully heat). 

 

SSD's like anything else are restricted by bandwidth - you can have the fastest SSD chips in the world but you need an interface capable of handling that speed. Most people are probably used to sata SSD's when current NVME's have read/write speeds that are up to six times faster and newtech is coming in which should mean even more bandwidth speed available. Essentially a good turning point is coming for this stuff to get going. Given current consoles are on lolz hard drive speed - even standard sata drives would be a huge jump. The newer stuff will be lightspeed

 

And no - the PS5 is not going to do native 8k on the main library of games. The only graphics card in the world that can comfortably do 4k 60fps costs £1k. It will merely be capable of outputting 8k.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Uzi said:

A quick summary of tech for non PC nerds

 

AMD are revealing their 7nm Ryzen CPUs and (proper not a rehashed vega) Navi GPU's at the end of May

The magic 8 ball says. "All signs point to another GCN rehash" So that'll be the same bottlenecks and scaling issues (64 ROPS and 4096 shaders) they have today.

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