PlayStation 5 - Next gen is expensive

[rafaqat]

8 hours ago, Super Craig said:

 

Cobbled together? Even Microsoft aren't 100% on what will work yet:

 

 

 

 

 

1000’s playable at launch vs some of the top 100. Yup. It’s the same.  

[womblingfree]

32 minutes ago, JPL said:

It’s just a bit of fun in these trying times.

That’s good because previously it’s been trying in the fun times.

[Dudley]

10 hours ago, womblingfree said:

No BC has never bothered me at all. But now we all have massive online libraries of digital content, mostly through PS+ or Gold, to lose access to all that would be more than a little annoying. 

 

You don't "lose it" though, any more than you lost it in the world of discs.

 

I've never been hugely a fan of BC being worth the resources except when it's a freebie like it practically was on ps2.

 

That said, ENHANCED BC, eg - 4k Forza Horizon 1 and this xbox one stuff? I'm so in.

[RubberJohnny]

1 hour ago, womblingfree said:

Every generation is the same....

 

Protracted conversation about BC before release

 

“Hey, these games look the same as last gen?!” on release.

 

”The (insert next gen console) doesn’t have any games as good as (insert last gen console)” in the first year or so.

 

And then after a while everyone starts having fun and forgets the above until it comes around for the next-next gen.

 

Rinse and repeat.

 

You're really going to have a hard time pretending people don't want enhanced BC.

 

This forum is literally filled with people who can't stop begging for remasters or re-releases, in completely unrelated threads.

 

Endlessly squeeing over every revival and cynical nostalgia cash-in, look at the reaction to the news of Sony buying up some other publishers nostalgia to peddle.

 

I think we've established pretty thoroughly I'm the only person on here who in fact doesn't care about these things, and I'm completely alone in that.

 

The idea that suddenly "no one cares" because the PS5 is a bit shaky on this stuff is so audacious a 180 that I've got whiplash.

[amc]

Some grand delusions going on there.

[Kevvy Metal]

1 hour ago, rafaqat said:

 

1000’s playable at launch vs some of the top 100. Yup. It’s the same.  

They said they were currently testing the top 100 games, and expect the “overwhelming majority of the 4,000-plus existing PS4 titles to be playable at launch.” 
 

Microsoft said something similar with “thousands at launch” not 100% compatibility. 
 

Even 1/2 the 360 library is being left behind in general with the Xbox BC program which everyone seems to just selectively ignore. 
 

PS2 had hardware based BC with the PS1 and even that needed hours of testing by Sony QA
 

Either some people are just not paying attention or the sly trolling is rife in here. 

[JPL]

26 minutes ago, Kevvy Metal said:

They said they were currently testing the top 100 games, and expect the “overwhelming majority of the 4,000-plus existing PS4 titles to be playable at launch.” 
 

Microsoft said something similar with “thousands at launch” not 100% compatibility. 
 

Even 1/2 the 360 library is being left behind in general with the Xbox BC program which everyone seems to just selectively ignore. 
 

PS2 had hardware based BC with the PS1 and even that needed hours of testing by Sony QA
 

Either some people are just not paying attention or the sly trolling is rife in here. 

Will the PS5 have PS3 backwards compatibility?

[rafaqat]

14 minutes ago, JPL said:

Will the PS5 have PS3 backwards compatibility?

maybe shortly after launch.  
 

 

 

no. 

[rafaqat]

watching the DF PS5 video.  They keep talking about how insanely hard the clock frequency is being pushed on the cpu and gpu. I will be amazed if it’s a quiet machine. 
 

Plus no mention of variable rate shading which frees up more power to the bits of the scene that players care about. 
 

No mention of Hardware accelerated machine learning either but that’s probably less of a thing for now unless MS find ways of using it other than allowing free HDR on previous gen games. 
 

Targeting games loading in 1 second?  THAT will be cool.  

 

 

[sammy]

And yet Cerny made a point of discussing the noise of the PS4 in the deep dive, and told DF that he thought people would be impressed with the cooling solution for PS5. We will know soon enough!

[wretcherd]

To a luddite like myself, I don't understand the difference between the gpu's running at 3.5/3.8ghz being brilliant and the cpu running at 2.23ghz is it being stretched to the limit?

The only vague touchstone I have is in mobiles and some of those run at 2.5 to 2.7ghz.

Apples and oranges?

 

Edit: mixed up my c's and g's.

Edited March 21, 2020 by wretcherd

[sammy]

Apples and Androids.

 

(I have no idea).

[5R7]

28 minutes ago, wretcherd said:

To a luddite like myself, I don't understand the difference between the gpu's running at 3.5/3.8ghz being brilliant and the cpu running at 2.23ghz is it being stretched to the limit?

The only vague touchstone I have is in mobiles and some of those run at 2.5 to 2.7ghz.

Apples and oranges?

other way round, the CPU is at 3.5ghz (or 3.6 on xsx) and this is great, because its designed to run at this speed, as it seems like its derived from the ryzen 3700x processor, which runs at 3.6. So having the processor not be under clocked or overclocked means it will be stable.

 

The GPU running at 2.23, is pushing it harder than what we would think of as normal, this means it will generate more heat and need more electric to push it, and could affect stability by essentially running it at the ragged edge for years! its odd, as all the early leaks suggested a 2ghz speed, which still seemed high, and then after the xsx specs, its like sony cranked the overclock some more!

 

Essentially, the CPU running at the speed is how it should, the GPU running at that speed is seemingly forcing an overclock of quite alot, which could have longer term

impacts.

But we wont know until we see it, and, heck hear what one sounds like a few years down the line! plane take off ps4 anyone?

... i mean...unless theyve made a custom AIO cooler for it...

[Kevvy Metal]

2 hours ago, JPL said:

Will the PS5 have PS3 backwards compatibility?

No, it was never going to. 

[womblingfree]

2 hours ago, RubberJohnny said:

 

You're really going to have a hard time pretending people don't want enhanced BC.

 

This forum is literally filled with people who can't stop begging for remasters or re-releases, in completely unrelated threads.

 

Endlessly squeeing over every revival and cynical nostalgia cash-in, look at the reaction to the news of Sony buying up some other publishers nostalgia to peddle.

 

I think we've established pretty thoroughly I'm the only person on here who in fact doesn't care about these things, and I'm completely alone in that.

 

The idea that suddenly "no one cares" because the PS5 is a bit shaky on this stuff is so audacious a 180 that I've got whiplash.

PS3 had enhanced BC, fully compatible in Japan and the US initially when it was in hardware, mostly compatible when they scaled it back. No one seemed to give a shit when they dropped it completely.

 

PS4 had zero BC but quite a few proper remasters of great games specifically coded to the consoles strength. I’ll take that over the slightly less fuzzy upscaled graphics I got with PS3.

 

BC, fine if it’s there, fine if it’s not. Doesn’t seem to affect sales one bit. You get better versions of the best games either way.

[gooner4life]

4 hours ago, rafaqat said:

 

1000’s playable at launch vs some of the top 100. Yup. It’s the same.  

 

I mean if you're going to deliberately mislead people then at least do it properly, only 1000's on Xbox Series X vs 4000+ on PS5, Microsoft what's the point of Gamepass if you cant play the games on next gen? 

 

"4,000+ PS4 titles will be playable on PS5. We’re expecting backward compatible titles will run at a boosted frequency on PS5 so that they can benefit from higher or more stable frame rates and potentially higher resolutions. We’re currently evaluating games on a title-by-title basis to spot any issues that need adjustment from the original software developers." via PlayStation Blog.

[JPL]

16 minutes ago, Kevvy Metal said:

No, it was never going to. 

Ah right. I’d heard rumours of it supposedly going all the way back to PS1. Someone obviously had a wild imagination!

 

Aren’t MS going back to continue with the 360 BC as well, once Series X is out? I’m sure I read that somewhere.

[bear]

Sony patented a bunch of stuff and people assumed that the PS5 was going to have turbo awesome backwards compatibility because literally everything a company ever files a patent on is immediately turned into something you can buy six months later. 

 

Until we start seeing some proper details on what is and isn't backwards compatible with the PS4 and PS5 there isn't much point getting worked up about what Cerny said. I thought it was reasonably clear at the time that the majority of PS4 games would work just fine on a PS5 but some might need tweaking. I'm not sure if it's just stupidity or people trolling, probably the latter tbh, but what he said seemed to get instantly twisted into "only some of the 100 most popular games will work on day one!!!, Sony hate BC". 

[womblingfree]

Hopefully there will be new games.

[Kevvy Metal]

31 minutes ago, JPL said:

Ah right. I’d heard rumours of it supposedly going all the way back to PS1. Someone obviously had a wild imagination!

 

Aren’t MS going back to continue with the 360 BC as well, once Series X is out? I’m sure I read that somewhere.

PS3 (or PS2, PS1) BC was pure wishful thinking and very unlikely as each of those machines use unusual bespoke hardware. 
 

The BC Xbox team have mainly moved onto XCloud or likely Testing XBO Software is compatible with XsX 

[JPL]

1 minute ago, Kevvy Metal said:

PS3 (or PS2, PS1) BC was pure wishful thinking and very unlikely as each of those machines use unusual bespoke hardware. 
 

The BC Xbox team have mainly moved onto XCloud or likely Testing XBO Software is compatible with XsX 

Well, half of the 360 library and a handful of original Xbox games is definitely better than none, don’t you think?

[Kevvy Metal]

10 minutes ago, JPL said:

Well, half of the 360 library and a handful of original Xbox games is definitely better than none, don’t you think?

just turning on my PS3 which is next to my PS4, so I can play any of my games is pretty good too. 

[rgraves]

46 minutes ago, bear said:

Sony patented a bunch of stuff and people assumed that the PS5 was going to have turbo awesome backwards compatibility because literally everything a company ever files a patent on is immediately turned into something you can buy six months later. 

 

Until we start seeing some proper details on what is and isn't backwards compatible with the PS4 and PS5 there isn't much point getting worked up about what Cerny said. I thought it was reasonably clear at the time that the majority of PS4 games would work just fine on a PS5 but some might need tweaking. I'm not sure if it's just stupidity or people trolling, probably the latter tbh, but what he said seemed to get instantly twisted into "only some of the 100 most popular games will work on day one!!!, Sony hate BC". 

it’s not twisting or trolling, it’s what he said. Not all of the top 100 games will run at launch. The twisting is being done now to try and backtrack from that.

 

I have no doubt Sony will be aiming to sort it out asap, but Cerny had those words planned out and it’s clear they’re not entirely sure what the situation will be at launch just yet - but it’s not going to be perfect or they’d have been much bullish about it to begin with.

[Mr. Gerbik]

2 hours ago, womblingfree said:

PS3 had enhanced BC

What? Are you trolling right now or have you never seen Enhanced BC in action on an Xbox One X? Enhanced BC games look like full on remasters or even remakes in some cases. In a lot of cases they look a shitload better than actual remakes that publishers asked actual money for. That's way way way beyond some puny token filter or minor performance improvements. The only thing that's similar to Enhanced BC is running old games in a good emulator on a sufficiently powerful pc with all kinds of fancy visual improvements applied - we never had that on a console before and I'm still surprised and impressed that Microsoft managed to do it.

 

The point is that you can't say on the one hand that people apparently love remasters going by the sales this gen but on the other hand they supposedly have zero interest in the free equivalent of remasters, ie Enhanced BC. 

 

Edit: I still can't believe you actually tried to argue that the PS3 had Enhanced BC. That's really quite something.

 

[Ghosty]

17 minutes ago, rgraves said:

it’s not twisting or trolling, it’s what he said. Not all of the top 100 games will run at launch. The twisting is being done now to try and backtrack from that.

 

I have no doubt Sony will be aiming to sort it out asap, but Cerny had those words planned out and it’s clear they’re not entirely sure what the situation will be at launch just yet - but it’s not going to be perfect or they’d have been much bullish about it to begin with.

 

There hasn't been any backtracking from Sony at all.

 

Quote

We believe that the overwhelming majority of the 4,000+ PS4 titles will be playable on PS5.

Quote

In his presentation, Mark Cerny provided a snapshot into the Top 100 most-played PS4 titles, demonstrating how well our backward compatibility efforts are going. We have already tested hundreds of titles and are preparing to test thousands more as we move toward launch. We will provide updates on backward compatibility, along with much more PS5 news, in the months ahead. Stay tuned!

 

 

[rgraves]

I also believe a large chunk of PS4 titles will be playable. Eventually.

 

Listen, they said very clearly not all of the top 100 will work at launch. In a planned, scripted presentation. It was not a mistake, it wasn’t something they said lightly. If they could of just said virtually everything will work, I can’t think of a single reason they wouldn’t have done that.

[womblingfree]

37 minutes ago, Mr. Gerbik said:

 

Edit: I still can't believe you actually tried to argue that the PS3 had Enhanced BC. That's really quite something.

 

Eh? It’s not an argument, it had it. At least initially.

 

I’m sure things have moved on a lot since the PS3’s launch 14 years ago though. The Gears demo I saw didn’t look all that different though tbh. A bit better, but not exactly SOTC PS4 better.

[wretcherd]

I remember PS2 having a faster clock speed option for PS1 BC too.

 

Edit: found it. Not clock speed. Assume it was standard and high.

[womblingfree]

8 minutes ago, wretcherd said:

I remember PS2 having a faster clock speed option for PS1 BC too.

I don’t remember that. Although I imagine there’s a carbon copy of this thread going on about it in the Edge Forum vaults from the year 2000.

[Kevvy Metal]

47 minutes ago, Mr. Gerbik said:

What? Are you trolling right now or have you never seen Enhanced BC in action on an Xbox One X? Enhanced BC games look like full on remasters or even remakes in some cases. In a lot of cases they look a shitload better than actual remakes that publishers asked actual money for. That's way way way beyond some puny token filter or minor performance improvements. The only thing that's similar to Enhanced BC is running old games in a good emulator on a sufficiently powerful pc with all kinds of fancy visual improvements applied - we never had that on a console before and I'm still surprised and impressed that Microsoft managed to do it.

 

The point is that you can't say on the one hand that people apparently love remasters going by the sales this gen but on the other hand they supposedly have zero interest in the free equivalent of remasters, ie Enhanced BC. 

 

Edit: I still can't believe you actually tried to argue that the PS3 had Enhanced BC. That's really quite something.

 

PS3 did have enhanced backwards compatibility with PS1 & PS2 games. Can’t remember exactly but it had added antialiasing and loading speed I think