PlayStation 5 - Next gen is expensive

[Robo_1]

13 minutes ago, JPL said:

Just on this point, can any game devs here confirm that? If it is true, surely MS would know that as well, so why would they opt for more CUs at a lower rate?

 

Yeah, of everything he said, I do find this the most likely way that PS5 could close the gap somewhat with Xbox.

 

I'm assuming it would be hard to programme a game engine to make full and constant use of every CU a console offers and that is where the main Tflop advantage enjoyed by the Xbox comes from. Meanwhile every CU utilised by a game engine, is being pushed that bit harder by PS5. At least that's my totally layman take on it. 

 

There's so much second hand, "my mate is a dev and he says... " stuff going around. Jason Schreier's rep is going to be shredded come November, if PS5 third party games aren't within spitting distance of Xbox releases.

[geldra]

May have been answered already....  is the PS5 capable of running HL:Alyx, specs wise?  

 

Appreciate they’d have to come up with something better than the Move controllers. 

 

Has there been any chat about PSVR being forwards compatible? 

[layten]

The XBsX GPU is not a particularly wide GPU compared to what developers already have plenty of experience with in PC land. My own GPU has a thousand more shaders for example.

[rafaqat]

6 minutes ago, geldra said:

May have been answered already....  is the PS5 capable of running HL:Alyx, specs wise?  

 

Appreciate they’d have to come up with something better than the Move controllers. 

 

Has there been any chat about PSVR being forwards compatible? 

psvr will work with ps5.  That’s what was said a while ago and nothing to contradict that has been put out. Which is good. Will have to see if any of those psvr games are in the top 100 most played games. 

[spatular]

1 hour ago, geldra said:

 is the PS5 capable of running HL:Alyx, specs wise

very easily

[Dudley]

12 hours ago, Broker said:

You played ten minutes of one game and you’re ready to declare the entire console’s library as possible to emulate? 

 

That is how an idiot would read that post yes.

 

PCSX3 can play well over half of PS3 commercial releases to completion, on older less capable hardware than PS5, without access to Sony's information on a very difficult machine. Less than 10% of games are completely incompatible.

 

If Sony thought it was worth the resources they COULD do it to play... ooh let's say "Most of the top 100 most popular games on PS3"

[Haribokart]

I’ve stayed away from these threads here because I expected the usual cunts like JPL and Rafaqat to be doing exactly what they are the same as they were back in 2013, such a disappointment to see I was right. Why can’t these kids stick to the multiformat or Xbox threads?

 

I just wanna read about the PS5 

[rafaqat]

7 minutes ago, Haribokart said:

I’ve stayed away from these threads here because I expected the usual cunts like JPL and Rafaqat to be doing exactly what they are the same as they were back in 2013, such a disappointment to see I was right. Why can’t these kids stick to the multiformat or Xbox threads?

 

I just wanna read about the PS5 

 

Hey dude. Why don't you pretend to be your flatmate again and post about how concerned you are about Haribo.   Seemed to get some likes back in the day!

 

We're all discussing whether BC is important or not and if the SSD secret sauce is enough to have mutlplatforms be about the same graphically.  I'm sorry if we've hurt your feelings.

[rafaqat]

1TB PCIe 4 drives 150 quid. If stuff like that can be plugged in then prices aren't too crazy.   2TB for 150 by end of year would be good.  2TB has been all I've needed for my PS4 so far.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07TLYWMYW?tag=georiot-trd-21&ascsubtag=pcg-1413925606286320400-20

 

 

[Escape]

On 21/03/2020 at 06:30, Hitcher said:

We do, they're called OLEDs.

 

Some people find the motion stuttery on OLEDs. If you take a 60fps game where each frame's 16.7ms, CRTs only light a few ms with the rest being black, such is their brightness capacity. This 'downtime' really helps our eyes to see each frame individually and eliminate blur (they also avoid hardware-induced blur).

 

Using the service menu on my monitor I can tweak its strobe timing, and on full brightness it gets pretty dark after about 25% blackness per frame. The result of not strobing's sample-and-hold, where our eyes blur the images together because they bleed into one another through retinal persistence. The physical lag of flatscreen hardware also loses to a CRT, but it's their image-handling that really disappoints me. On an LCD, for example, moving the camera in an FPS causes the crystals to twist, lowering the in-motion resolution and causing blur. A lot of games now have built-in motion blur to mitigate this, and we've become used to slowing or stopping our turns momentarily to snapshot our surroundings, else we might not see the movement of an enemy.

 

Higher refresh rates and strobing help, but these are problems that simply don't affect CRTs. Power draw; size; weight; heat; geometry... all big CRT downsides, but you still can't beat them for motion. OLEDs do have comparable colour these days, albeit similar longevity weaknesses. If you could get a really bright OLED and strobe it down to a few ms per frame... MicroLED might stand a better chance, or self-emissive QLEDs one day.

[Super Craig]

The focus on audio with the PS5 seems to me like something that has been done with VR in mind. I could see them integrating the breakout box into the console and having the headset connector on the front of the console as well. I would imagine that the old headsets will work with any new headset being about improved resolution.

[JPL]

7 hours ago, Haribokart said:

I’ve stayed away from these threads here because I expected the usual cunts like JPL and Rafaqat to be doing exactly what they are the same as they were back in 2013, such a disappointment to see I was right. Why can’t these kids stick to the multiformat or Xbox threads?

 

I just wanna read about the PS5 

[Mr. Gerbik]

9 hours ago, Dudley said:

 

That is how an idiot would read that post yes.

 

PCSX3 can play well over half of PS3 commercial releases to completion, on older less capable hardware than PS5, without access to Sony's information on a very difficult machine. Less than 10% of games are completely incompatible.

 

If Sony thought it was worth the resources they COULD do it to play... ooh let's say "Most of the top 100 most popular games on PS3"

This. It could definitely be done, but don't forget that Microsoft let a dedicated BC team work on it for years and years until they came up with arguably the most impressive emulation solution to date. The 360 emulation on Xbox One is on some black magic voodoo shit. Assuming Sony still have the source code of everything PS3, they could most likely do the same, given that there's already a decent PS3 emulator up and running on PC. Made by some dude in his spare time without any access to the source code whatsoever. 

 

But I imagine that it would be a bigger and therefore more expensive investment than, say, getting PS4 games running on PS5. So either they're not going to bother because Sony "nobody cares about BC" PlayStation think it's too big an investment for too little return, or if they do bother I can imagine it will take a few years still. 

 

I personally would love to be able to play my PS3 games on PS5. Yes, I know that a few very vocal people in this thread keep saying that they never ever in a million years would even think about touching a game more than a few months old, but I'm just stating what I personally would like to see.

 

In the last few years I've been clearing my backlog and having a blast doing it. A lot of those games are better than the latest and greatest imho. But even before then I would always play a mix of new and old, after finishing the latest Yakuza I would dive into Digital Devil Saga on PS2 for example. I would love to be able to play those older games easily on the same console I play the latest and greatest on.

 

I'm still hoping they'll at least announce PS1 and 2 support, but I would be ecstatic if I could play my favorite PS3 games also.

[David Kenny]

13 hours ago, rgraves said:

Let me just check what you are saying here. Are you betting that PS5 will be 100% compatible with PS4 titles because it will be able to run those games in some kind of ‘compatibility’ mode?

 

Because i’d take that bet. Cerny himself has said they need to test on a case by case basis, that at some portion of the top 100 games won’t be working at launch - which would be totally unnecessary, and totally untrue, if the hardware was just natively compatible.

 

I’m sure 100s if not 1000s of games will work - but it’s not going to be native or else  they just made a massive mistake in their own carefully scripted presentation.

 

if it was setup as you said, they should fire whoever reviewed that script and didn’t just change it to -“of course every PS4 game will work, and in addition many will also offer enhanced performance on PS5.”

I'm not sure every PS4 title will be compatible, even if they enable some sort of compatibility mode, but even if they stuck a mini PS4 inside the PS5 box they'd need to test thousands of games. You shouldn't read anything into the fact that they have to test games, they might still be very confident of close to 100% compatibility.

[womblingfree]

Does anyone know if there are any new games coming out? Much as I hope and pray to continue playing the ageing PS4 back catalogue which I have been playing for six years, I would quite like something else to play.

[gooner4life]

2 hours ago, Mr. Gerbik said:

This. It could definitely be done, but don't forget that Microsoft let a dedicated BC team work on it for years and years until they came up with arguably the most impressive emulation solution to date. The 360 emulation on Xbox One is on some black magic voodoo shit. Assuming Sony still have the source code of everything PS3, they could most likely do the same, given that there's already a decent PS3 emulator up and running on PC. Made by some dude in his spare time without any access to the source code whatsoever. 

 

But I imagine that it would be a bigger and therefore more expensive investment than, say, getting PS4 games running on PS5. So either they're not going to bother because Sony "nobody cares about BC" PlayStation think it's too big an investment for too little return, or if they do bother I can imagine it will take a few years still. 

 

I personally would love to be able to play my PS3 games on PS5. Yes, I know that a few very vocal people in this thread keep saying that they never ever in a million years would even think about touching a game more than a few months old, but I'm just stating what I personally would like to see.

 

In the last few years I've been clearing my backlog and having a blast doing it. A lot of those games are better than the latest and greatest imho. But even before then I would always play a mix of new and old, after finishing the latest Yakuza I would dive into Digital Devil Saga on PS2 for example. I would love to be able to play those older games easily on the same console I play the latest and greatest on.

 

I'm still hoping they'll at least announce PS1 and 2 support, but I would be ecstatic if I could play my favorite PS3 games also.

 

I don't think the Jaguar CPU in the PS4 was strong enough to emulate the Cell, it should be possible on PS5.

 

However, the Cerny borefest was a GDC talk just about PS5 hardware, not about any features, it was aimed at developers, so he wouldn't mention backwards compatibility, hopefully we hear more on that front when they do a console reveal.

[metallicfrodo]

1 minute ago, gooner4life said:

However, the Cerny borefest was a GDC talk just about PS5 hardware, not about any features, it was aimed at developers, so he wouldn't mention backwards compatibility, hopefully we hear more on that front when they do a console reveal.

 

Apart from the section where he specifically talked about backwards compatability.

[gooner4life]

Just now, metallicfrodo said:

 

Apart from the section where he specifically talked about backwards compatability.

 

He briefly spoke about it and it was to explain their choices about the CPU/GPU, they didn't do a deep dive into Back Compat, PS4 is the same architecture, why would he mention software emulation of older consoles at a developer talk? 

 

Honestly people here just deliberately act stupid for the sake of console wars.

[layten]

He also spent 20 minutes telling us that HDDs "are bad". I dont think many developers needed telling.

 

I would be amazed if what we got was the GDC talk as it was. They were advertising it on the main PS4 blog so they knew what kind of audience they were going to get.

[Dudley]

3 hours ago, Mr. Gerbik said:

I personally would love to be able to play my PS3 games on PS5. Yes, I know that a few very vocal people in this thread keep saying that they never ever in a million years would even think about touching a game more than a few months old, but I'm just stating what I personally would like to see.

 

 

 

This is the thing though. I'm in the less convinced by BC group.

 

Because I still have a PS4 when I buy a PS5.

 

I would actually be more interested in 3, 2 and 1 though, because we're a generation in, the PS3s are either failing or in storage, the PS1s and 2s even more likewise (although the PS1 is borderline trivial to emulate).  The trouble of course is, those are generations much more valuable for money spinning HD remasters.

[gooner4life]

3 minutes ago, Dudley said:

 

This is the thing though. I'm in the less convinced by BC group.

 

Because I still have a PS4 when I buy a PS5.

 

I would actually be more interested in 3, 2 and 1 though, because we're a generation in, the PS3s are either failing or in storage, the PS1s and 2s even more likewise (although the PS1 is borderline trivial to emulate).  The trouble of course is, those are generations much more valuable for money spinning HD remasters.

 

This! they could hide behind lack of CPU power before, they wont be able to this time.

[JPL]

30 minutes ago, gooner4life said:

it was aimed at developers,

It wasn't though. As Master Race said, it was advertised through the main PS4 channels, so they definitely wanted as many people to watch it as possible. Someone said it had been viewed 13 million times the other day. That's a lot of developers!

[gooner4life]

All I will say is - Game Developer Conference.

 

 

[gooner4life]

 

much better.

[Mr. Gerbik]

3 minutes ago, Dudley said:

 

This is the thing though. I'm in the less convinced by BC group.

 

Because I still have a PS4 when I buy a PS5.

I really like the idea of the new console literally replacing the old one though. Usually I keep the old one hooked up for a good long while because I'm still mopping up the games from the previous generation. It would be cool if I can just seamlessly (thanks to cloud saving, like on Xbox) continue on the new console with my previous gen games.

3 minutes ago, Dudley said:

 

 

I would actually be more interested in 3, 2 and 1 though, because we're a generation in, the PS3s are either failing or in storage, the PS1s and 2s even more likewise (although the PS1 is borderline trivial to emulate).  The trouble of course is, those are generations much more valuable for money spinning HD remasters.

Yeah but eventually that PS4 is also going to age and break down. Compared to the Switch and XB1 it already feels rather rickety so why not move everything forward right now eh?

 

On Xbox all the BC games bar one or two because of licensing issues are also put up for sale digitally. Compared to making a remaster there's zero cost involved for the publishers and unlike with people buying physical 360 or OG Xbox discs, they're suddenly still seeing money come in for those older games. I have no access to the numbers, but I've bought a lot of 360 and OG Xbox games that way and I wonder how profitable it is.

[JPL]

2 minutes ago, gooner4life said:

 

much better.

[Superunknown]

57 minutes ago, JPL said:

It wasn't though. As Master Race said, it was advertised through the main PS4 channels, so they definitely wanted as many people to watch it as possible. Someone said it had been viewed 13 million times the other day. That's a lot of developers!

 

No, that was the Digital Foundry video about the PlayStation 5 video.

[metallicfrodo]

4 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

No, that was the Digital Foundry video about the PlayStation 5 video.

 

No it isn't, the DF direct is sat just below 500k views (at 100k more views that the XSX deep dive). It's the one on the official Playstation youtube channel that is at 13 million

[Superunknown]

@metallicfrodo My mistake - I misread another post

[RubberJohnny]

1 hour ago, gooner4life said:

All I will say is - Game Developer Conference.

 

I usually watch a couple of panels from GDC every year on Youtube because I'm interested in rendering and messing around with Unity and Unreal Engines as a hobby project. 

 

They're generally a lot less dull and dry than that PS5 conference, I really think they listened too closely to the fan-memes about "I could listen to Cerny reading the phonebook"

 

 

Look - showing rather than telling, breaking down technical subjects in an approachable manner, humour!