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PlayStation 5 - Next gen is here!


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6 minutes ago, Kevvy Metal said:


PS3 did have enhanced backwards compatibility with PS1 & PS2 games. Can’t remember exactly but it had added antialiasing and loading speed I think 


PS1 only as I recall (I’m also not sure what the US/Japan reference is - the first set of consoles in Europe had the support too, and it suggests that Wombling really doesn’t know what he’s talking about). I basically used it to play Vib Ribbon. The loading speed was basically “we have faster dvd reading in this more modern Blu-ray drive).

 

And that’s nothing like “4 times resolution, stable framerate, turning the texture filtering right up” that Microsoft added with a lot of the Xbox1X stuff, or what they’re suggesting is possible with Series X.

 

(You may all say that you’re happy to pay for remasters of everything, cool. I suppose the positive of a more basic backwards compatibility model is that they can keep reselling you the same games.)

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42 minutes ago, womblingfree said:


Eh? It’s not an argument, it had it. At least initially.

 

I’m sure things have moved on a lot since the PS3’s launch 14 years ago though. The Gears demo I saw didn’t look all that different though tbh. A bit better, but not exactly SOTC PS4 better.

Jesus, it's not remotely comparable. It's like saying a Ferrari and a Fiat Panda are both cars and I see no difference. 

 

Edit: some minor improvements, that's what the PS2 and 3 did. On an X the Enhanced games look like new games, get what I'm saying? The Gears demo on the XsX is not what I'm talking about here. Didn't see much difference there either. It's things like Ninja Gaiden looking like a remake made by Bluepoint, but it's just emulation magic and it's free.

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4 minutes ago, Mr. Gerbik said:

Jesus, it's not remotely comparable. It's like saying a Ferrari and a Fiat Panda are both cars and I see no difference. 

 

Edit: some minor improvements, that's what the PS2 and 3 did. On an X the Enhanced games look like new games, get what I'm saying? The Gears demo on the XsX is not what I'm talking about here. Didn't see much difference there either. It's things like Ninja Gaiden looking like a remake made by Bluepoint, but it's just emulation magic and it's free.


Are there any demo’s of it doing this? I’ll be Cyberpunking on OneX then Series X so if it’s suddenly some crazy bonkers new experience I’ll be well chuffed.

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Red Dead Redemption in particular was held up as an example a couple years ago. I don't have an X but the comparisons are very impressive.

 

 

I've still got my 360 and I'll probably keep the PS4, but it would be nice to have especially for the early days of next gen when the releases are more thin on the ground and I'm attacking my backlog. 

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30 minutes ago, footle said:


PS1 only as I recall (I’m also not sure what the US/Japan reference is - the first set of consoles in Europe had the support too, and it suggests that Wombling really doesn’t know what he’s talking about). I basically used it to play Vib Ribbon. The loading speed was basically “we have faster dvd reading in this more modern Blu-ray drive).

 

And that’s nothing like “4 times resolution, stable framerate, turning the texture filtering right up” that Microsoft added with a lot of the Xbox1X stuff, or what they’re suggesting is possible with Series X.

 

(You may all say that you’re happy to pay for remasters of everything, cool. I suppose the positive of a more basic backwards compatibility model is that they can keep reselling you the same games.)


The Japan/US quote is a reference to the fact that the first run of PS3’s had full backwards compatibility. This had already been scaled back to a cheaper way of doing BC which was not fully BC by the time of the EU launch. All PS3’s that had whatever kind of BC upscaled old games and smoothed out the graphics, including PS2 games, to varying degrees.

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35 minutes ago, womblingfree said:


Are there any demo’s of it doing this? I’ll be Cyberpunking on OneX then Series X so if it’s suddenly some crazy bonkers new experience I’ll be well chuffed.

Well, it has to be enhanced first and while it costs the publisher of said game no money or effort (the Microsoft BC team does the work), I think they still have to give their okay. Cyberpunk is a special case however, a next-gen version has already been confirmed and if you buy it on the XB1, you get the next-gen XsX version for free when it appears. Knowing CD Projekt, that next-gen version should offer noticeably more visual upgrades than any kind of remaster ever would. We don't know yet if the same goes for the PS5 version.

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2 hours ago, Kevvy Metal said:


just turning on my PS3 which is next to my PS4, so I can play any of my games is pretty good too. 

 

Yup that's fine but wouldn't you love to be able to play your copy of Demon Souls uprezzed and with other graphical upgrades on your Ps5 (for free?).  I see people saying they'd be in day one if Demon Souls was a launch title but it would also be nice to be able to play some classics that you own on the new hardware.  Or even be able to buy some of those classics to play on the new hardware.  The problem with saying BC isn't important or not giving it enough priority early on is that we end up in this never ending cycle of "that game is last gen, play it on the older hardware" and people who never owned the older hardware (maybe too young at the time) will never enjoy them if the dev chooses not to do a remaster.   So it's partly preserving gaming history too I guess.  Not everyone has every gen of hardware and so BC is also important to allow those games to be presented to a new crowd too.  Grows the gaming market for every game then right?

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2 hours ago, rgraves said:

I also believe a large chunk of PS4 titles will be playable. Eventually.

 

Listen, they said very clearly not all of the top 100 will work at launch. In a planned, scripted presentation. It was not a mistake, it wasn’t something they said lightly. If they could of just said virtually everything will work, I can’t think of a single reason they wouldn’t have done that.

 

Yup. Classic soft drop of some info and then see how people react to it and follow up with "clarifications" when they realise that people think that's a terrible stat.    That talk will have been a fair few reviews with various people.   It wasn't Cerny making a boo boo. 

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3 hours ago, Kevvy Metal said:


PS3 (or PS2, PS1) BC was pure wishful thinking and very unlikely as each of those machines use unusual bespoke hardware. 
 

The BC Xbox team have mainly moved onto XCloud or likely Testing XBO Software is compatible with XsX 

 

And adding HDR via BC using the Machine Learning tech. Seeing as people are saying HDR is a bigger upgrade than the jump to 4K that's a pretty nice FREE upgrade right?

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3 hours ago, Kevvy Metal said:


PS3 (or PS2, PS1) BC was pure wishful thinking and very unlikely as each of those machines use unusual bespoke hardware. 

 

PS1 BC and PS2 BC is possible.  A free Ps2 emulator currently has 96% of games in a playable state (not perfect).  Ps3 fair enough, that was just super weird, maybe on the Ps6. 

Think what Sony themselves could do if they thought it important enough.  Lets not hide behind the "oh it's too hard".   

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, rafaqat said:

 

Yup. Classic soft drop of some info and then see how people react to it and follow up with "clarifications" when they realise that people think that's a terrible stat.    That talk will have been a fair few reviews with various people.   It wasn't Cerny making a boo boo. 

 

I think you really must be hard of fucking hearing then. This is exactly what was said about BC:

 

Quote

 

"A better way is to incorporate any differences in the previous consoles logic into the new consoles custom chips meaning that even as the technology evolves the logic and feature set that PlayStation 4 and PlayStation 4 Pro titles rely on is still available in is still available in backwards compatibility modes.

 

One advantage of this strategy is that once backwards compatibility is in the console it's in. It's not as if a cost down will remove backwards compatibility like it did on PlayStation 3.

 

Achieving this unification of functionality took years of efforts by AMD as any roadmap advancement creates a potential divergence in logic.

 

Running PS4 and PS4 (he meant PS4 Pro) titles at boosted frequencies has also added complexity. The boost is truly massive this time around and some game code just can't handle it. Testing has to be done on the title by title basis. Results are excellent though. We recently took a look at the top hundred PlayStation 4 titles as ranked by play time and we're expecting almost all of them to be playable at launch on PlayStation 5."

 

 

He essentially meant it might have the same problems as boost mode on PS4 Pro might possibly have when running PS4 games at boosted performance. Without testing them, they cannot be sure what quirks might result in each game, which is why they locked away that functionality originally, to maintain 100% BC between PS4P and older games designed for the PS4 only.

 

He also stated "Backwards compatibility modes", which to me infers a repeat of their PS4 Pro approach, something backed up by the Github testing data:

 

Quote

So how can we be confident that this processor is actually a semi-custom AMD product for Sony and not another partner like Microsoft? The giveaway is the fact that the GPU can be switched to three different modes in order to provide hardware backwards compatibility with PS4 and PS4 Pro. While a 2.0GHz GPU clock is used for what is described as the fully unlocked 'native' or 'Gen2' mode, the processor is also tested in what is referred to as Gen1 and Gen0 modes. The former is explicitly stated as running with 36 compute units, a 911MHz core clock, 218GB/s of memory bandwidth and 64 ROPs - the exact specifications of PlayStation 4 Pro. The latter Gen0 mode cuts the CU and ROP counts in half and runs at 800MHz, a match for the base PS4. The indications are that back-compat is an integral part of the silicon, which in turn raises some interesting questions about the makeup of the Navi GPU and the extent to which older GCN compatibility may be baked into the design.

 

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The amount of posts since I last read this thread is a bit much at the moment, but this discussion by Jason Schreier and other people on their weekly podcast does kind of sum up the impression I get of the general level of discussion that a skim read of a few pages of this thread since the hardware reveals :)

 

Quote

JASON: ...The other really interesting thing that happened was, because they released this giant list of tech specs that maybe your average hardcore gamer who reads a lot of forums and Reddit and Twitter and stuff can kind of semi-parse this stuff--

KIRK: They can parse it just enough to have a super strong but not entirely informed opinion on this.

 

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9 minutes ago, mushashi said:

The amount of posts since I last read this thread is a bit much at the moment, but this discussion by Jason Schreier and other people on their weekly podcast does kind of sum up the impression I get of the general level of discussion that a skim read of a few pages of this thread since the hardware reveals :)

 

 

Fuck me the irony of this post.

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2 hours ago, rafaqat said:

 

Yup that's fine but wouldn't you love to be able to play your copy of Demon Souls uprezzed and with other graphical upgrades on your Ps5 (for free?).  I see people saying they'd be in day one if Demon Souls was a launch title but it would also be nice to be able to play some classics that you own on the new hardware.  Or even be able to buy some of those classics to play on the new hardware.  The problem with saying BC isn't important or not giving it enough priority early on is that we end up in this never ending cycle of "that game is last gen, play it on the older hardware" and people who never owned the older hardware (maybe too young at the time) will never enjoy them if the dev chooses not to do a remaster.   So it's partly preserving gaming history too I guess.  Not everyone has every gen of hardware and so BC is also important to allow those games to be presented to a new crowd too.  Grows the gaming market for every game then right?


Literally no-one said backwards compatibility wasn’t important. 
 

Also, Demon’s Souls entirely remade by Bluepoint? Hell yeah I’m in for that if it happens! and another reason to get a PS5.  

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3 hours ago, wretcherd said:

Red Dead Redemption in particular was held up as an example a couple years ago. I don't have an X but the comparisons are very impressive.

 

 

I've still got my 360 and I'll probably keep the PS4, but it would be nice to have especially for the early days of next gen when the releases are more thin on the ground and I'm attacking my backlog. 

 

So weird how even looking side by side, my brain remembers it looking like the Enhanced Xbox One X version on 360.

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During his presentation Cerny had a picture / diagram (which I can’t be arsed to find) when talking about back compatibility which had suspiciously large gaps beneath PS4 and PS4 Pro. I can’t believe he would have used that if there is no plan to use the same picture to showcase PS1-3 back compatibility in some future presentation. 

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54 minutes ago, mushashi said:

The amount of posts since I last read this thread is a bit much at the moment, but this discussion by Jason Schreier and other people on their weekly podcast does kind of sum up the impression I get of the general level of discussion that a skim read of a few pages of this thread since the hardware reveals :)

 

 

The irony given your previous post...

 

If the github approach was correct then he wouldn’t have started talking about the sheer speed, would he? He’d have just said “we have carefully designed the GPU so that we can run in in compatible modes”.

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2 minutes ago, gooner4life said:

 

So weird how even looking side by side, my brain remembers it looking like the Enhanced Xbox One X version on 360.


the YouTube video downsampling it to 1080p actually hides a lot of the additional perceived clarity.

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7 hours ago, Kevvy Metal said:

I see the PS5 tech deep dive has been viewed a crazy 13 million times. 
 

The DF Xbox reveal is sitting at 900k. 

The same people are watching multiple times trying understand what's going on.

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7 hours ago, Kevvy Metal said:

I see the PS5 tech deep dive has been viewed a crazy 13 million times. 
 

The DF Xbox reveal is sitting at 900k. 

That’s pretty interesting, to be fair. Why do you think that is?

 

More people are interested in PS5 than Series X?

Thats the only info on it, as opposed to MS using multiple channels and spreading it out over the last few weeks?

People love to see a car crash, as Master Race says?

Or a bit of all of the above?

 

I think it’s probably my last point. Whatever the reasons are though, it wasn’t a great first look at what they’re up to. Surely even you can agree on that? Hopefully they’ll give us some more info soon and finally show us what it looks like, all in a more consumer friendly way.

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43 minutes ago, JPL said:

That’s pretty interesting, to be fair. Why do you think that is?

 

I think MS have a huge problem with their name for the console. Its confusing for anyone outside the hardcore - where as PS5 is very clear about what it is.

 

Its sounds like a small thing but watch how this plays out... 

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12 minutes ago, Dirty Harry Potter said:

 

I think MS have a huge problem with their name for the console. Its confusing for anyone outside the hardcore - where as PS5 is very clear about what it is.

 

Its sounds like a small thing but watch how this plays out... 

I can totally see Microsoft having a Wii U problem with that name, despite their otherwise excellent efforts at making a good impression. PlayStation 5 is an obvious name but also perfect - the new PlayStation, it now has a hat, and everyone wants it.

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I dunno. I think as long as they get their marketing right and hammer home what it’s called alongside a big picture of it, they’ll be ok. It is a bit daft them using the X again, right after the One X, but it’s nothing like the WiiU situation, where people thought it was an add-on for the Wii. That was through a total miscommunication of marketing and it never really clarified that it was a new console. It looked like a tablet controller for the Wii.


I still think Sony will sell the most consoles though, as PlayStation is just a stronger brand name.

 

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I'll admit even I was confused when all I knew about was the name and I didn't know all of the details. I knew it was another console, but I imagined it might be a slightly tweaked One X rather than the beast it will end up as; it was only after seeing side-by-side comparison notes (and actually seeing the physical console for the first time) that I realised it was a brand new thing. :blush:

 

EDIT: I guess seeing the speculation over its price was a clue as well :P 

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