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Avengers: Endgame - BIG SPOILERS TOPIC - You have been warned!


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5 minutes ago, Made of Ghosts said:

 

 

I HATED what they did with Thor. As a single comedy scene it would've been ok, or even if they'd just played the same concept a little bit more straight, but he stays in comedy mode almost the whole film and constantly undermines the drama. 

 

 

I much preferred it to IW but I totally agree with this. It made him a really inconsequential character, an extension of the same lame humour that made Ragnarok so irritating. Tonally just wasn’t a good fit. Without the humour an overweight Thor like Will Smith’s Hancock might have worked better

 

Also loved the Build a Bear line but then I am worryingly obsessed with the place

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3 hours ago, linkster said:

I much preferred it to IW but I totally agree with this. It made him a really inconsequential character, an extension of the same lame humour that made Ragnarok so irritating. Tonally just wasn’t a good fit. Without the humour an overweight Thor like Will Smith’s Hancock might have worked better

 

Also loved the Build a Bear line but then I am worryingly obsessed with the place

Also agree that it didn’t work for Endgame. Totally disagree that it didn’t work for Ragnarok. It fit brilliantly with the section of the movie in Jeff Goldblum’s world whatever it was called. 

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Just now, El Geet said:

Also agree that it didn’t work for Endgame. Totally disagree that it didn’t work for Ragnarok. It fit brilliantly with the section of the movie in Jeff Goldblum’s world whatever it was called. 

TBH I groaned the first time I saw the trailer with the "YES! we know each other from work." But there was much worse to come. And poor Cate Blanchett - it was Answer the Call-grade 'comedy'. (By which I mean very talented performers misguidedly required to ad lib to mediocre effect). Though I think ironically Hemsworth is fucking fantastic as Kevin :)

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5 hours ago, Made of Ghosts said:

Having loved Infinity War I really didn't care for this very much.

 

The opening Hawkeye scene was probably my favourite bit. Really devastating. The whole opening section works well, I was surprised they set off to whack Thanos so quickly but it was a smart choice to have that happen early and show how little it mattered. All the depressing world-left-behind stuff was great but it feels like we immediately lose that gravitas as soon as the mission starts and it's just a fun romp. 

 

The time travel section felt very "let's get the thing", it's all gags and not much lingering sense of what's at stake. The character moments don't really interact with the quest: Iron Man gets to have a nice long chat with his dad, and Thor wandering off to find his mum is treated as this dangerous mistake but nothing actually comes of it. Nat and Hawkeye arguing over who gets to die was a bit better and I really liked Nebula's storyline because stuff actually goes wrong and it feels important. (Yes stuff goes wrong with the tesseract but it's fixed comparatively quickly and easily.) Also, this isn't very objective but "time travelling back to the previous film" has been a pet hate of mine ever since Harry Potter and the Cursed Child.

 

I HATED what they did with Thor. As a single comedy scene it would've been ok, or even if they'd just played the same concept a little bit more straight, but he stays in comedy mode almost the whole film and constantly undermines the drama. 

 

Hawkeye going on a killing spree is fair enough, but it felt like he turned around way too quick and faced zero consequences for it. I mean yeah he's killing bad people I guess but still.

The final battle just hinges on a bunch of people arriving at the right time, yes it's a bit of a "moment" but it feels weightless. It's not the result of some big moral decision or test of character or anything. They just show up.

 

That shot of Cap facing down the hordes by himself was spectacular.

 

I hate being that guy but the "yay women" bit was just... cringe. It's a completely meta moment, it doesn't work as something "in" the film. (By contrast I thought the First Ever Gay Character In History was quite nicely done)

 

Cap and Iron Man's endings were good. 

 

The Build-A-Bear line was funny.

Just back and I'm pretty much on the same page as all of this. It's late and my brain is fried but some quick thoughts to follow.

 

Too many moments lacked impact and Captain Marvel was just a missile with Ellen Degeneres' hair do. Thor was just annoying and at odds with the film, and i just spent every hulk scene trying to unsee The Beast from The Chase! 

 

Hawkeye was the best part of the film and I genuinely thought he was going to be the sacrifice. Felt a bit cheated by the Loki and Gamorah "death reversals" though. 

 

I REALLY hate this version of Spiderman as well. A whingy annoying prat that is dependent far too much on his fancy suit rather than his actual spider skillz. 

 

Lastly for just now I found it really jarring how Tony Stark managed to figure time travel over his bedtime drink before his bed. Just one of a few overly convenient time saving plot devices which really shouldn't have been the case in a three hour film. 

 

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6 hours ago, Nick R said:

The "he's a friend from work" line is one of the very best jokes in the MCU, and what's more it was contributed by a kid on a Make A Wish visit to the set. People worry about plot spoilers, but that's the one line in the entire series, more than any other, that I wish hadn't been featured in any trailers!

 

But I don't remember any of Blanchett's lines coming across as ad-libbed. Goldblum's, yes, but that's to be expected because he's, ah, Goldblum.

Yes I know the majority of the thread drools over every aspect, but oddly enough enormous popularity doesn’t actually make things good. 

 

Blanchett’s delivery of rank dialogue in a forced “ooh amn’t I deliciously evil” way was frankly one of the worst performances of her career, felt embarrassed for her

 

Goldblum was Goldblum, I don't really remember him delivering anything, again if you like he was the Bill Murray ATC character equivalent

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1 hour ago, APM said:

In contrast, I fucking love Ragnarok, and I thought having Thor fat for the entirety of this film was one of its bravest choices. I was waiting for the moment when his lightning ripped him back to normality, but no, he's fucking Thor, fat or not, and not because of his toned body andhe's a bit broken from the loss of his home, family and people. I think making him hunky Thor again would have been a huge cop out and I'm glad they made this decision and stuck with it.

 

It also nicely undermined the need in ever Marvel film for the hunky hero to be topless for at least one scene to show off their amazing six pack. I mean, even Ant Man and Dr Strange had sculpted bodies, FFS.

 

Fat Thor was a great gag, but they over played the joke. I think they underserved Thor's character in service of comedy. I like have like'd them to focus to on the guilt and loss he felt - out of all the avengers he had lost the most. There was a really nice moment in IW between him and Rocket where he talked about losing his family, his home.

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I just realised something. Endgame has now shown the Marvel universe to have technology to allow people to live forever.

 

Using the quantum realm, just do what they did in testing before Tony showed up: push time through the person. 

 

If you can control it, people could remain at the age of, say, 24. Forever. 

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1 hour ago, Delargey said:

 

Fat Thor was a great gag, but they over played the joke. I think they underserved Thor's character in service of comedy. I like have like'd them to focus to on the guilt and loss he felt - out of all the avengers he had lost the most. There was a really nice moment in IW between him and Rocket where he talked about losing his family, his home.


Hes a man whose given up and sees no hope, he's lost everything that he was. His home, his family, 75% of his people,  his hammer and now his body. He doesn't care anymore or have the strength or will like he used too. It takes the scene with his mother to snap him back out of it.

 

What should he have done? Just come straight out of a 5 year pit of depression because they "might" have a chance of saving people. Pretty sure that's not how depression works and you're basically asking Thor to "cheer up"

 

They played it perfectly fine.

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2 hours ago, Delargey said:

 

Fat Thor was a great gag, but they over played the joke. I think they underserved Thor's character in service of comedy. I like have like'd them to focus to on the guilt and loss he felt - out of all the avengers he had lost the most. There was a really nice moment in IW between him and Rocket where he talked about losing his family, his home.

 

2 hours ago, Stigweard said:

 


Hes a man whose given up and sees no hope, he's lost everything that he was. His home, his family, 75% of his people,  his hammer and now his body. He doesn't care anymore or have the strength or will like he used too. It takes the scene with his mother to snap him back out of it.

 

What should he have done? Just come straight out of a 5 year pit of depression because they "might" have a chance of saving people. Pretry sure that's not how depression works and you're basically asking Thor to "cheer up"

 

They played it perfectly fine.

 

Yeah, Thor was great.  The Directors have come out and said that out of all the characters he is the one with the most story throughout the two movies (presumably Downey is second best served).  I didn't really think the fat thing was overplayed in the grand scheme. 

 

I loved that we are essentially seeing Thor completely broken.  He was verging on being broken in IW but still held hope that he could personally right the situation.  When that failed, and he blames himself most of all due to Thanos comments, he completely loses all faith in himself.  I thought it was a strong powerful storyline that worked well.  It juxtaposes nicely with Stark in that Thor has always had the weight of the world on his shoulders so he does take the consequences of failure personally.  Stark has always wanted to help but he's always been treated as broadly unreliable.  When he helps it is a bonus, it is simply expected that Thor will help. Stark loses in IW but he can personally recover and have a happy life.  Thor's whole being is that he is meant to be the King of his people and protect them and he can't move past that failure. If we'd had happy go lucky Thor in Endgame it wouldn't have been true to his Character. 

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28 minutes ago, Thor said:

I just realised something. Endgame has now shown the Marvel universe to have technology to allow people to live forever.

 

Using the quantum realm, just do what they did in testing before Tony showed up: push time through the person. 

 

If you can control it, people could remain at the age of, say, 24. Forever. 

 

I'm a little surprised that someone - say Banner - didn't have a moral dilemma and was all "no one should wield this power" and then smashed the time machine and erased Tony's digital blueprints.

 

...kinda like in Dark Knight when - at the end - they need some way to find the Joker, so Lucius Fox uses his magic sonar device that means you can find anyone in the city, anywhere, at anytime (convenient!) but he gets all pissy that is is morally wrong (convenient!) so the machine MUST be destroyed so no one can use it again. It's the most obvious written into a corner so lets make a magic device to get us out of it but destroy it so can't be used again! 

 

It really took me out of the film, and I still really hate that bit. I also find that it seems to get a free pass for some reason.

No one mentions it, and this is in the age of pedantically nitpicking everything - no matter how tenuous the complaint - to death to score internet points. 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Kevvy Metal said:

 

I'm a little surprised that someone - say Banner - didn't have a moral dilemma and was all "no one should wield this power" and then smashed the time machine and erased Tony's digital blueprints.

 

...kinda like in Dark Knight when - at the end - they need some way to find the Joker, so Lucius Fox uses his magic sonar device that means you can find anyone in the city, anywhere, at anytime (convenient!) but he gets all pissy that is is morally wrong (convenient!) so the machine MUST be destroyed so no one can use it again. It's the most obvious written into a corner so lets make a magic device to get us out of it but destroy it so can't be used again! 

 

It really took me out of the film, and I still really hate that bit. I also find that it seems to get a free pass for some reason.

No one mentions it, and this is in the age of pedantically nitpicking everything - no matter how tenuous the complaint - to death to score internet points. 

 

 

 

But the time machine is pretty useless.  It can't change your past.  At best you can go back in time and retrieve an object.  You're not about to do that with infinity stones since they have a nasty effect of killing you.  I'm not sure in many previous Marvel films would have ability to retrieve an object from the past really have been that helpful in dealing with the present threat. 

 

I thought they nerfed the time machine pretty good. 

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1 minute ago, McCoy said:

 

But the time machine is pretty useless.  It can't change your past.  At best you can go back in time and retrieve an object.  You're not about to do that with infinity stones since they have a nasty effect of killing you.  I'm not sure in many previous Marvel films would have ability to retrieve an object from the past really have been that helpful in dealing with the present threat. 

 

I thought they nerfed the time machine pretty good. 

 

Oh yeah, totally. I have no problem with the time machine. 

I'm just surprised they didn't do something like that for the people who don't pay attention to the film, who would have a some sort of complaint like that. :)

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2 hours ago, Stigweard said:

 


Hes a man whose given up and sees no hope, he's lost everything that he was. His home, his family, 75% of his people,  his hammer and now his body. He doesn't care anymore or have the strength or will like he used too. It takes the scene with his mother to snap him back out of it.

 

What should he have done? Just come straight out of a 5 year pit of depression because they "might" have a chance of saving people. Pretty sure that's not how depression works and you're basically asking Thor to "cheer up"

 

They played it perfectly fine.

 

That is the opposite of what I meant.

After all Thor's been through it would have been better if they played it a bit more earnst, rather than "look at this drunk dude! His entire family died then he got fat, lol! What a dope he is now!"

 

Fat Thor reveal was a great gag and the bit with his mum was really nice but too many of his scenes were played for the lols for me.

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1 hour ago, Thor said:

On the other hand, it could be argued that those "lols" from Thor added some much needed levity to certain scenes. I too would have preferred him to not be fat for the whole film, but that's because it's kinda heartbreaking to see someone like that let themselves go to that extent. You want them to be better again asap, at least I know I did. 

 

Plus, him getting the hammer and "Yes! Still worthy!" is quite a powerful message: You are not your physical body, or the alcohol you drink to drown the years of sorrow, you are who you are inside, and that person is still worthy. 

 

Thor is fucking amazing in both films. 

 

I think it was a little bit to much 'Fat = Lols' for me personally, just felt a tad lazy. I didn't think that he should magically become fit again, just that him becoming overwight because he lost everything he knew of loved shouldn't have been played for lols all the time.

 

I get the arc of his character, but would have preferred if to have a tad less comedy so the tragedy had a bit more room. Just my opinion, obviously some people will prefer a different balance.

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I don't think it was fat = lols at all really. Yes, there was that initial shock and laugh at what he'd become but after that they never really referred to his weight again for a punchline. It was more that he'd turned into a slob and a mess. It's not like he was shown to be out of breathe or struggling to fit into his suits etc. Is his weight even referred to again other than the initial shot of him in the house?

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Yeah, it felt like lots to me...like when the mother told him to eat a salad, nothing wrong that his line per se but it seemed like scene he was in had a joke at the expense of how Thor looks

 

Like you said "What should he have done? Just come straight out of a 5 year pit of depression because they "might" have a chance of saving people." I think him having justified depression should have being played a little bit straighter.

 

  Again, is personal preference, he just felt a bit  too "whacky" to me, I loved the comedy in the 3rd Thor and think he'll be great in GotG III but just felt that it lacked a bit of pathos to me.

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15 hours ago, linkster said:

TBH I groaned the first time I saw the trailer with the "YES! we know each other from work." But there was much worse to come. And poor Cate Blanchett - it was Answer the Call-grade 'comedy'. (By which I mean very talented performers misguidedly required to ad lib to mediocre effect). Though I think ironically Hemsworth is fucking fantastic as Kevin :)

 

It turns out that there's a seventh infinity stone, where the entire universe's supply of Wrong is concentrated into a single post. But at least we had a good idea where we'd find it.

 

I just saw this and thought it was very enjoyable, though not my favourite on any particular level. It's probably been covered earlier in the thread, but they never made it feel like half the world survived. It was like only 15 people did. Maybe they were worried that Thanos's plan might look tempting...

 

One thing that has become obvious is that the audience is crying out for simplicity. This was the critical mass of collected information, and I heard far too many people in the cinema having to remind other people why things were happening.

 

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32 minutes ago, Delargey said:

 

I think it was a little bit to much 'Fat = Lols' for me personally, just felt a tad lazy. I didn't think that he should magically become fit again, just that him becoming overwight because he lost everything he knew of loved shouldn't have been played for lols all the time.

 

I get the arc of his character, but would have preferred if to have a tad less comedy so the tragedy had a bit more room. Just my opinion, obviously some people will prefer a different balance.

 

I find comedy to be Thor's most interesting purpose when we've got so many other Deux Ex Machina Superman characters. It gives him something uniquely his own. And it makes narrative sense that he'd lose his gravitas when he lost his homeland.

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2 hours ago, schmojo said:

 

It turns out that there's a seventh infinity stone, where the entire universe's supply of Wrong is concentrated into a single post. But at least we had a good idea where we'd find it.

Just one place?

 

you are clearly not a GoT fan

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