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Elden Ring - chortlesome japes


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12 minutes ago, K said:

I'm really enjoying the game, but I would probably have liked it to have been more of a departure from Dark Souls in terms of background and story. I mean, it's VERY similar to Dark Souls in that respect - a group of demigods with names like Izigoloth the Wretched, Norwyn Emperor of the Infinite, Ghastroskull Necrovore, and Purple Geoff have had some kind of falling out, leaving a surreal fantasy world all broken and knackered. You, the chosen undead / bearer of the curse / ashen one / tarnished, must kill all of them. It's all a little bit too familiar for me. It reminds me a bit of Dark Souls III, which felt like From were just repeating the same themes and ideas from their older games. I was kind of hoping for something like Bloodborne, which took the same mechanics and gameplay, and put it into a completely new aesthetic that made everything feel completely fresh.

 

There are significant differences as well, obviously. The fact that a lot of the game takes place in verdant pastures and sandy beaches makes it feel very different, as does the openness. The horse-riding, the enemies and some of the world terminology gives it the feel of the weirder bits of Arthurian legend, and that works really well - I love the idea that you're this itinerant undead knight, and that feels pretty different to the Souls games as well. But the backstory and setting are still a little bit too similar to Dark Souls for me - making a new IP that's this close to the original feels odd, as if Bungie's next game was Ring Planet, where you control the Master Sergeant in his fight against the forces of the Concordat.

 

I should say this is a pretty minor issue, but I do keep thinking the devs are repeating themselves a bit.

 

It is not enough for people that From build a vast, sprawling, incredibly detailed open world in, what, 3 years, they had to completely re-invent their aesthetic as well?

 

I get where people are coming from, but some of the expectations are a tad unrealistic. A studio like from From could not do this game without iteration and repetition.

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9 minutes ago, ChewMagma said:

 

It is not enough for people that From build a vast, sprawling, incredibly detailed open world in, what, 3 years, they had to completely re-invent their aesthetic as well?

 

I get where people are coming from, but some of the expectations are a tad unrealistic. A studio like from From could not do this game without iteration and repetition.

 

It's more that the setup, backstory and lore are so familiar. Like, you're an undead being, questing to kill a family of demigods, guided through the world by an ethereal maiden type. Bloodborne managed to put the From style of gameplay into a completely different story, with a very different setup. It's not really a question of resource or creating a whole world, it's more that they're re-using the same themes and structure in a way that feels very close to their older games. It's imaginative, rather than technical.

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19 minutes ago, moosegrinder said:

Sorry if this has been answered but the thread is moving at a fair old clip: what's the new patch changed?


A lot. Buffed some things, nerfed some things. Added missing npcs and quest chains. Bug fixes. Added NPC icons to the map. Big ones are:

 

- sword of night and flame nerfed

- mimic ashes nerfed

- hoarfrost stomp nerfed

- turtle shell great shield nerfed 

- barricade shield ash of war nerfed 

- bloody slash Ash of war nerfed 

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1 hour ago, JPL said:

What’s a good spread of weapons to have then? I’m still using my longsword that I’ve had from the start, but I’m worried about putting smithing stones into anything else at the minute, as they’re so hard to come by. I really need to do that boss you mentioned to Scott. Don’t suppose you can remember the name of the catacombs?

I would always recommend people try to carry a weapon of each of these damage types:

- Standard (your longsword does standard)

- Strike (blunt weapons like maces or clubs)

- Slash (curved swords/katanas) 

- Pierce (pikes / thrusting swords)

 

Slash and pierce is a bit more optional, but the reason for carrying them is that enemies have weaknesses, not only to elemments like magic or holy or fire, but also to these damage types.  

 

For example, a strike weapon will DECIMATE the miners you fight in the mines.  Even when my Claymore was at +9, my +5 spiked mace did more damage to these enemies!  Carrying each of the above weapon types lets you experiment when you fight a new type of enemy to discover their weakness. 

 

Also, that boss I mentioned to Scott is in a mine.  I described where it is in the same post.  Go back and look.  You can see mines on the map once you've found a map fragment.  Big dark holes with a red outline, usually.  :)

 

Use the map to help you explore!! If you see an interesting landmark on the map, put a beam marker on it!! 

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12 minutes ago, K said:

 

It's more that the setup, backstory and lore are so familiar. Like, you're an undead being, questing to kill a family of demigods, guided through the world by an ethereal maiden type. Bloodborne managed to put the From style of gameplay into a completely different story, with a very different setup. It's not really a question of resource or creating a whole world, it's more that they're re-using the same themes and structure in a way that feels very close to their older games. It's imaginative, rather than technical.

 

Ok I get what you are saying. I'm not sure Bloodborne was that different a story though, it just had a gothic horror aesthetic rather than a dark fantasy aesthetic. I distinctly remember there being an ethereal maiden that guides you through the game for example.

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8 minutes ago, robdood said:

I would always recommend people try to carry a weapon of each of these damage types:

- Standard (your longsword does standard)

- Strike (blunt weapons like maces or clubs)

- Slash (curved swords/katanas) 

- Pierce (pikes / thrusting swords)

 

 

When a weapon type says something like Standard/Slash, I'm assuming that means that some attacks do Standard damage, and some do Slash? Rather than all attacks being a mix of the two?

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On 14/03/2022 at 10:30, Benny said:

I've been trying to work out how to get on the plateau on the large South Western peninsular for absolutely bloody ages. When I finally work it out or end up there via other means it's going to be FRICKIN' SWEET.

 

Spoiler

What a fucking journey that was. I adore this game.

 

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3 minutes ago, ChewMagma said:

 

Ok I get what you are saying. I'm not sure Bloodborne was that different a story though, it just had a gothic horror aesthetic rather than a dark fantasy aesthetic. I distinctly remember there being an ethereal maiden that guides you through the game for example.

 

I forgot about the Doll. So yeah, there are a lot of parallels with the other Souls games in Bloodborne, but I still thought the story and lore were a significant departure from From's older games. It's a minor thing because there are big changes too, but I think Elden Ring just comes down on the familiar side of the fence.

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17 minutes ago, Doctor Shark said:


A lot. Buffed some things, nerfed some things. Added missing npcs and quest chains. Bug fixes. Added NPC icons to the map. Big ones are:

 

- sword of night and flame nerfed

- mimic ashes nerfed

- hoarfrost stomp nerfed

- turtle shell great shield nerfed 

- barricade shield ash of war nerfed 

- bloody slash Ash of war nerfed 

 

Noooooo I know about that one, I've just had another one. Presumably tiny but I was downloading summat else so didn't see the size.

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41 minutes ago, Stoikovich said:

50 hours in and 30 since defeated Godrick, I revisited the second castle and found a whole separate area, warp and a massive tower that gave me new powers??  Fantastic!

 

I’m just letting stuff happen organically as I stumble across it in game.  But I would prefer it to be slightly less obtuse sharing lore, signposting locations etc.  at the moment it’s pretty much either -

a) luck

b) everything documented in full via the wiki

Dude if you'd read the description of the item you used at the tower to get new powers (that Godrick gave you upon death) you'd have had a clue to go there...

 

I've not wiki'd anything yet, there's plenty of cryptic (and non cryptic) clues in the game I think

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9 minutes ago, John0 said:

 

When a weapon type says something like Standard/Slash, I'm assuming that means that some attacks do Standard damage, and some do Slash? Rather than all attacks being a mix of the two?

Yes! A common example would be longsword - often have standard/pierce as the damage type, and thats because 'swinging' attacks to standard damage, and stabby attacks do pierce.  So eg. with claymore the one-handed R2 is a stab move.  two handed does a standard attack though.  It's all inferred via the animation. 

 

 

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17 minutes ago, Lovelyman said:

I wish they added an icon to tell you if you’ve killed the boss in the catacombs/mines etc once you’ve found them. 

I have a simple system - don't leave til the boss is done. 

 

Lol.

 

Seriously though, I put a skull on the map if I can't beat something yet. 

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1 minute ago, robdood said:

Yes! A common example would be longsword - often have standard/pierce as the damage type, and thats because 'swinging' attacks to standard damage, and stabby attacks do pierce.  So eg. with claymore the one-handed R2 is a stab move.  two handed does a standard attack though.  It's all inferred via the animation. 

 

The crystaline enemies were really odd. At first I wondered in with my longsword and was doing nothing to them.. but once I started breaking their super armour I was taking big chunks out of them with the same attacks, I swear. I wondered if it's not that Strike weapons specifically do more damage, but that Strike more easily breaks their super armour?

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1 hour ago, Ste Pickford said:

Longbow upgrades ahoy then!


I think I'm remembering DS where you find the much superior combine bow or composite bow (if I'm remembering correctly) quite early on, and that was a much better choice to upgrade.

 

Anyway, another couple of pages in my journal done.  Getting a bit spoilery now, although it's still early-game Limgrave stuff.

 

  Hide contents

 

 

 

Hail to the Jellyfish indeed! 

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Fucking yessss!

 

I did. It. One quick ash of war change to bloodhound dash and I did it in 2 attempts!

 

Great game. Uninstalled never to go near again. Maybe. 

 

I will probably be back on it later.

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29 minutes ago, Lovelyman said:

I wish they added an icon to tell you if you’ve killed the boss in the catacombs/mines etc once you’ve found them. 

 

Some have optional secret bosses though. I dunno, I'm not sure I'd want any more clutter on the map and it's easy enough to type "Murkwater Cave - Clear" on the notes app of a phone.

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20 minutes ago, K said:

 

I forgot about the Doll. So yeah, there are a lot of parallels with the other Souls games in Bloodborne, but I still thought the story and lore were a significant departure from From's older games. It's a minor thing because there are big changes too, but I think Elden Ring just comes down on the familiar side of the fence.

 

There was an Edge article many, many moons ago which talked about Japanese game development being inherently iterative. It's therefore completely normal for them to make the "same" game over years in multiple iterations. The most classic example is Zelda, which is very upfront about being a re-telling of the same story by having "Legend" in its title.

 

I guess it then comes down to whether this bothers you or not. Personally it gives me a chuckle to see whichever version of the Maiden in Black/Emerald Herald/Hunter's Doll will feature this time, and to see the same broad story tropes. Partly it's because that aspect of these games is the one I'm least interested in. It's like "Yeah yeah, four old gimmers argued about a Cup, get me to the exploration and loot!"

 

That said, I agree about Bloodborne, but that was simply because the Lovecraftian elements are much more up my alley. If all the other games had the same beats as Bloodborne though, say in a game called Birthed in Blood on PS7, I'd still say "take my money", as the gameplay framed by this repeating narrative is such a joy.

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Yeah, I kind of agree with K, and with Davros, and it doesn't really bother me.  Ragging on the same ideas again and again, with minor tweaks and iteration is fine by me, as long as they're good games.

 

The weird thing is that this technically counts as a new IP, when it really is just ("just") Dark Souls 4.  It's a revised, open world iteration of the Dark Souls franchise with some new ideas along with the familiar ones, in the same way that BotW is a revised, open world iteration of the Zelda franchise, with some new ideas along with the familiar ones.

 

This one, though, can be nominated for 'best new IP' in the awards categories.  I wonder if there are grants or tax breaks or something available for making original / new IP?

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1 hour ago, moosegrinder said:

Sorry if this has been answered but the thread is moving at a fair old clip: what's the new patch changed?

 

am I imagining things or it now has wee icons where NPCs are - I didn't notice that before.

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Maybe the change to the onboarding of new people would have been much more difficult if it was called Dark Souls IV. PEople would go, subconsciously or otherwise, "Oh, it's like the previous 3 and I didn't like them." 12m copies in a few weeks would suggest so.

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Yeah, they're new. I also thought they needed to be discovered - but I had a new icon for a certain ruffian up near the capital before I had any idea he'd headed that way. 

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32 minutes ago, robdood said:

Seriously though, I put a skull on the map if I can't beat something yet. 


This. I genuinely have a bit of a goldfish memory and am currently playing this with shorthand notes on the go - being able to place a dedicated “nope” marker on the map is invaluable.

 

I also use the diamond if I have a place where I can make some quick runes (not for farming - just for topping up if I’m near a level, or making cash to buy an item…)

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34 minutes ago, K said:

 

I forgot about the Doll. So yeah, there are a lot of parallels with the other Souls games in Bloodborne, but I still thought the story and lore were a significant departure from From's older games. It's a minor thing because there are big changes too, but I think Elden Ring just comes down on the familiar side of the fence.

Funnily enough logically I can't disagree with what you are saying. The similar themes are there 100 percent. Some object of power. Some previous monarch figure who had possession of said power. A range of powerful bosses who have links to monarch in some way. Some mysterious warrior needed to move the status quo forward. All completely present.

 

But weirdly Elden Ring feels significantly more mysterious and that isn't because the way the lore is told is different, I think its because the open world has a new form of storytelling that the traditional lore sits in a different place mentally for me. In previous souls games, most people would tackle a similar journey (maybe do things in a different order but the route from new area to area boss would often be identical) and as such the lore and story were at the fore front. Here for me the story has been my journey. It's so significantly unique and special to me to how I've got to the end game that the reason I'm doing all of this has taken on new meaning for me. Ranni for example, her backstory is so vague to me because I have paid so little attention to it and her lore and story is in the places I have gone in connection to her and the journey it has taken on for me. That's why despite the same story template, the actual result is significantly different and due to that, it feels nothing like the other narrative journeys of previous soul games for me.

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8 minutes ago, Ste Pickford said:

Yeah, I kind of agree with K, and with Davros, and it doesn't really bother me.  Ragging on the same ideas again and again, with minor tweaks and iteration is fine by me, as long as they're good games.

 

The weird thing is that this technically counts as a new IP, when it really is just ("just") Dark Souls 4.  It's a revised, open world iteration of the Dark Souls franchise with some new ideas along with the familiar ones, in the same way that BotW is a revised, open world iteration of the Zelda franchise, with some new ideas along with the familiar ones.

 

This one, though, can be nominated for 'best new IP' in the awards categories.  I wonder if there are grants or tax breaks or something available for making original / new IP?


Seems identical to the Demon’s Souls to Dark Souls situation. Except I think Sony had exclusive rights to DeS and BB. 

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Coming into this, I had recently replayed DS3 and then the Demon's Souls remaster, so I was also worried that it was going to be more of the same. Although I think the game engine definitely needs a shake up, thankfully I've still found this entirely compelling, and the changes it introduces compared with earlier DS games are enough to make it feel fresh. Torrent, in particular, and the way it immediately appears beneath you, is a revelation and makes you feel very empowered compared with before; smash and grabs feel a hundred times more viable and tempting than they did in the other games.

 

Regarding the lore, my initial impression was that this, too, seemed very familiar, but the more you invest in it then the more you appreciate the nuances of it compared with before. From the outset, the fact that the people mentioned in the opening cinematic are *not* the big bads you'll have to fight, but rather fellow Tarnisheds who are (ostensibly) on the same mission as you, feels interesting. The sheer variety of different areas are also fascinating to learn about.

 

Having said that, I do hope that From's next game is Bloodborne 2. In a different engine this time, please.

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