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2 hours ago, Pockets said:

I don't think anyone is looking at PES and FIFA and thinking, oh well, PES has Barcelona at least

 

Anecdotal, but I know at least one person who bought PES 2019 because Celtic were a featured team. 

 

(then they didn't bother adding Celtic Park until about twenty minutes ago and he was not happy, which is classic PES).

 

I think the existing licensing has more of an effect than you do - I don't believe every single player is making an informed and correct decision based on substance over style. I don't think that's true of any game. In addition, the Xbox version has no editing features because of Microsoft's restrictions - dropping the licenses will affect that.

 

Licensing is also effective advertising. Every partnership is a target at a specific club's fans. Every official screenshot is enhanced when it features recognisable players in official kits in authentic stadiums. You can't show deep and rewarding gameplay in a banner ad. Rave reviews won't matter when FIFA is already drawing solid scores.

 

Without licensing comes diminished marketing, and a resulting knock on in sales. Perhaps the first unlicensed game does well, call it brand loyalty or momentum or retention or what have you. Maybe the second does too, but in five years? Ten? What if FIFA improves as it did a decade ago? What becomes of PES if it can no longer bank on superior gameplay?

 

If the team were an independent studio capable of doing enough business, then it could continue. Like, if it was made by Sports Interactive and had as powerful an editing suite, it'd basically be my perfect football game. But as a Konami effort, I think they'd kill it. They've pretty much killed everything else.

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3 minutes ago, Pockets said:

 

I agree with this, I don't think Konami could or would do it and if they tried I'm sure they'd fuck it up. I just think it might be a good approach to take for the sake of the game more than anything.

 

I do think if a third player, say 2K, wanted to get involved it's an option for them to take. I think the reason no one else has is because the licences are all tied up but you could get around it with my suggestion.

 

It is a risk I suppose for the reasons you mention. Entering the football game market with no licences needs an absolutely mindblowing game to overcome that and then you need enough people to realise that but I think you could grow something if you had the resources to support it early on.

 

That, of course, is why EA so desperately tie up all the licences they can and keep competitors out of the market. It allows them to keep churning out mediocrity. NFL fans will remember 2K5 which is still (15 years later!!!) the best NFL game ever made in terms of gameplay but ultimately killed off by EA exclusivity in a sport where licensing is even more essential.

 

2K did make another unlicensed game in 2007 but it failed, possibly due to the reasons you point out but also because it wasn't quite good enough and NFL doesn't have the community of editors established for years like PES does.

 

It took years for NBA 2K to match the sales of NBA Live. They only really materially surpassed EA’s effort in sales when EA monumentally fucked up and didn’t release a game one year. People want annual updates. The people who’d slavishly stuck to EA’s efforts only had one choice so they switched to 2K and realised it was a far better game.

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I don't know why people care about licenses. It bothers me more that teams aren't included, like Dortmund for years and now Bayern. Or incorrect names in some national teams like Brazil, which they amended later on but still isn't complete. No edits i made transferred to online divisions. Other main things that massively, MASSIVELY annoy me is lack of formation save slots. 3. THREE! The amount of a ball ache it is to swap players around before a game because you don't want to lose all time favourite formation say of Crystal Palace you're quite fond of. I save formations with tactics overriding the defaults of teams, but i'm not even sure that goes when i do an update. 20 replay save slots is also mean. These are simple things.

 

I've really got into PES 2019, i doubt i'd be able to go back to PES 2010. The chip through ball is something i use all the time, being able to shift the ball and wait for the exact moment to catch out the defenders is glorious and the one major thing you couldn't do for so many years. Online has died the last week and still won't work now, i tried winning the league with Man United on Legend in 5 minute games but it proved impossible. I couldn't get off a shot most games, the defending was too good. I dropped down a level and still would lose, Brighton would play like Barcelona, seriously great football, made my defence look so narrow. It was nice to see how good it was possible to play the game, but it's just not the same unless I'm online playing against a real person even though there is no indication of that being true. Occasionally you see human aggression, rash tackles, you think; is this his last game of his 10 that he needs to win to go up a division? But generally people are predictable, and i can't get enough of it. Enough of xavi pirouetting around opponents, feinting, pulling defenders one way to go the other. Until you reach a player who is switched on and notices. The amount of times I concede while trying to dribble past someone on the half way line. Have to do them every game.

 

I wasn't sure they'd be another PES really, maybe there's only few years left of them.

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59 minutes ago, Loik V credern said:

I don't know why people care about licenses. It bothers me more that teams aren't included, like Dortmund for years and now Bayern. Or incorrect names in some national teams like Brazil, which they amended later on but still isn't complete. No edits i made transferred to online divisions. Other main things that massively, MASSIVELY annoy me is lack of formation save slots. 3. THREE! The amount of a ball ache it is to swap players around before a game because you don't want to lose all time favourite formation say of Crystal Palace you're quite fond of. I save formations with tactics overriding the defaults of teams, but i'm not even sure that goes when i do an update. 20 replay save slots is also mean. These are simple things.

 

I've really got into PES 2019, i doubt i'd be able to go back to PES 2010. The chip through ball is something i use all the time, being able to shift the ball and wait for the exact moment to catch out the defenders is glorious and the one major thing you couldn't do for so many years. Online has died the last week and still won't work now, i tried winning the league with Man United on Legend in 5 minute games but it proved impossible. I couldn't get off a shot most games, the defending was too good. I dropped down a level and still would lose, Brighton would play like Barcelona, seriously great football, made my defence look so narrow. It was nice to see how good it was possible to play the game, but it's just not the same unless I'm online playing against a real person even though there is no indication of that being true. Occasionally you see human aggression, rash tackles, you think; is this his last game of his 10 that he needs to win to go up a division? But generally people are predictable, and i can't get enough of it. Enough of xavi pirouetting around opponents, feinting, pulling defenders one way to go the other. Until you reach a player who is switched on and notices. The amount of times I concede while trying to dribble past someone on the half way line. Have to do them every game.

 

I wasn't sure they'd be another PES really, maybe there's only few years left of them.

 

Yeah. I’m with you on the omission of teams. Two or three years ago when they had the Europa League licence they didn’t even have all the teams who made it to the group stage.

 

I wanted to play as Red Star Belgrade versus my mate who’s an Arsenal fan when they actually met in the tournament. Red Star didn’t exist. Annoyingly they were in the prior years release.

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On 12/06/2019 at 13:42, Fry Crayola said:

Nah, I think they need some licenses to attract people. Most don't want to look at edit modes, they want to jump into a game as is rather than put any small amount of legwork just to bring the game up to a level they're happy with. The people who's reason for buying FIFA is because it has Manchester United and Tottenham Hotspur instead of Man Red and North East London are already ignorant of the patches they can easily use. FIFA just works.

 

What they should do, however, is drop the restriction on the how many additional clubs and leagues can be added, and allow for custom promotion/relegation setups. Having to choose just one European league to add to the game is kinda rubbish when the Bundesliga is such a glaring omission. 

 

What about mods? Xbox allows it now. Pop the game in, have a system integrated like 2Ks, and every player who starts a mode gets a notification if they want to download kits and extra graphics from the community. Press yes, job done.

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I played PES religiously on PS2 between 2002 and about 2007. Couldn't get enough, it was always my main game. Then played a couple of them on 360, probably around 2010 and 11 when they introduced online master league. I thought that was absolutely brilliant. One year it just seemed a bit broken and I stopped playing. I Iust dropped off it completely.

 

Picked up 17 or 18 on the cheap the other year. Couldn't even work out where the online master league was! Utterly awful menu system. Played one season of master league offline and thought it lacked any sort of charm. Hideously complex menu systems. The game felt extremely bloated with unnecessary fluff.

 

I'm not sure what the point of this post is! I think basically I'm exactly the sort of person who should buy PES, but every time I try it I find it to be utterly charmless. The crappy menu systems, multiple shit game modes, horrible music, bullshit currency etc. I think I really hope someone comes along and makes an entirely new football game (like 2k) because I seriously doubt this team is ever going to pull it back now.

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37 minutes ago, Talk Show Host said:

 

Ι think that would be much cheaper than paying for licenses.

 

Anything's cheaper than paying for licenses, really. I mainly just doubt Konami's willingness to continue on with the game if they went down that road. 

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  • 1 month later...

I've played PES 2019 lite extensively now and I'm staggered anyone can suggest it is back in any way. 

I've grown to like the myclub aspect, the levelling of players is brilliant fun and gives good longevity for those that want to stick with a team. 

 

However, on pitch, at times it's absolutely broken. The tackling and marking systems are hopeless. They are unresponsive and marking is so sloppy. It doesn't feel like AI can deal with through passes at all. 

 

The pace feels like they have forced it to be slow. Lack of pressure on attackers, huge gaps and shocking movement by AI teammates into decent spaces to receive the ball are infuriating. 

Also, when making a pass, if your route his blocked before your kick the ball, you cannot change the passing direction! Once chosen you are absolutely locked into that pass!

 

Physicality feels paper thin. Options to shield and push just do not feel good enough. Also there are notable delays in animation links when moving to actually kick the ball. And sometimes you just need a tiny flick of the leg to make a 4 yard pass but you still get a slow pass animation and get tackled!

 

Argh!

 

But despite all this, I am still compelled to play it. I do like levelling the players and am enjoying using the Japanese players. However, not all of the players are in the myclub database so I can't even sign Honda! But he's in the base game!

 

Sorry, I know this is about 2020, so I will link it. Despite all these issues, I've like my club enough to keep an eye on 2020. If the players are all in the database, as they should be as they are actually in the game as free agents, I may actually get it. 

 

And to add, licences. It has the Japanese license. So yes, that does interest me. Licencing is important. 

 

 

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45 minutes ago, Stoppy2000 said:

It seems the case is still active just the civil part has been dropped. Unlikely to amount to anything I suspect. 

Pity, they could have released DLC for jail yard footy :lol:

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How likely is it that the awful UI will get sorted?Over the last few years I've bought a couple of editions of pes with the intention of reliving my iss days with some mates and its been such a headache to figure out how to get multiplayer going (menu upon menu) that we've given up. I don't play fifa but imagine it all functions with a lot more polish? 

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For me, as much as the gameplay is streets ahead of FIFA, the sad fact is that if it wasn't so easy to patch (option file) and make all the kits and names right, I reckon I'd end up preferring FIFA.  That sort of stuff really adds to it to me, and having Merseyside Blue in a plain blue shirt, for example, would just be rubbish.

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  • 2 weeks later...

It’s far from awful, it’s actually very decent.

 

Sure, it’s an iterative update of PES2019, but considering that was the best playing football videogame of the last few years that’s not a particularly bad thing. 

 

As Chooch says, will be interesting to see what the final game looks like, as the demos tend to be braver than the final retail releases. 

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5 hours ago, Jazz Glands said:

It’s far from awful, it’s actually very decent.

 

Sure, it’s an iterative update of PES2019, but considering that was the best playing football videogame of the last few years that’s not a particularly bad thing. 

 

As Chooch says, will be interesting to see what the final game looks like, as the demos tend to be braver than the final retail releases. 

Exactly this. I remember one demo version of Fifa which felt amazing. Proper tricky AI and realistic movement from team mates. The dribbling was also a bit trickier. Full game came out and it was the same damn thing as the year before. 

Has PES got decent keeper animations yet? Always remember them being really limited. 

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PES is nothing like football. I don't understand why people suggest otherwise. It has been such a mess, only the very forced slow pace which doesn't feel natural at all make it apparently realistic. 

 

 

Anyway, 2020 is vastly improved over 2019. So many tweaks have seen it become a far more enjoyable experience. Yes, animations are very hit and miss, yes it still has too much of a digital control background and yes the engine clearly isn't up to what is needed in a simulation. But it just feels leaps ahead of last year's effort. I'm actually very surprised and impressed. 

 

And PES 'fans' need to stop calling those that do not accept whatever Konami put are way as it's a bad thing. We are not FIFA fans, we just want a well rounded football game and many of us came from PES in the first place, back on PS1 and PS2 when there was a clear quality gap in its favour. 

 

It seems to me that Konami are reluctant to implement any ideas from FIFA. The knock on first touch for example is clumsy with the double tap of R. The directions available still feel like there is only 16 and the animation is never smooth here. They need to take the best ideas from FIFA, the same was EA took the best of PES into its own game. 

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26 minutes ago, nakamura said:

PES is nothing like football. I don't understand why people suggest otherwise. It has been such a mess, only the very forced slow pace which doesn't feel natural at all make it apparently realistic. 

It's almost like people have different opinions!

 

I'm not sold on this new demo so far, I love 19 and feel like I can play in the Norwich style of lots of neat short passes and quick movement. Need a bit of getting used to the new one, but the slower pace is leaning a bit towards 'sluggish' for me.

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PES 19 has massive flaws that are easily demonstrable to anyone that is prepared to listen. From poor tacking to AI that allow crazy amounts of space on behind to the inability to play just the slightest touch to knock it on to a player. But as proven time and time again, the PES community are not prepared at any level to listen to any suggestions where the game needs improvement. 

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