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1 hour ago, Muz said:

Unfortunately every year I hope they get their menu/loading/update/roster/notification screens sorted to make getting into a game with mates online easier...


+1. The menu has gotten better with the 2020 version but loading times and online matchmaking is a shocking as ever. Definitely needs an overhaul. 
 

At this rate, I don’t get why both FIFA and PES don’t just switch to a yearly subscription model and then auto update the same game.

 

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  • 6 months later...
On 07/02/2020 at 00:11, Fry Crayola said:

The ISS series used to have this, in the form of Scenarios. Like later FIFA tournament games, it was a set of situations where you'd take over a particular team a couple of goals or men up/down and need to win the game. I always enjoyed those, so it's a shame that Konami don't bother with them. Not so sold on recreating class goals though, feels like there's not enough life in that. Either the game becomes rigid so that everyone involved on both sides does the same thing off the ball they did in real life - making it very boring, very quickly - or they don't and it's too frustrating to recreate the goal because the defender chose to hack you down.

 

Oh yeah goal recreations would probably be irritating, even if I'm still attached to the idea. I wasn't considering the opposition really, more the accuracy of your goal, i still like the idea of re trying something over and over getting a better version of it, committing to 50 attempts to reach 80% similarity after being on 79% for so long..

 

It's very limited really, although it would be cool to see the absolute best recreations by players with viewable videos in the game. It'd be ripe for the skills and tricks and range of attacks to show themselves. Like Bergkamp's trick vs Newcastle I'm not sure is even possible on the game, although if the scenario was featured then they'd include it. The game should have viewable videos anyway of online moments, voted on/picked by the developers. 

 

The scenarios i like, just as much as the goals it's about tapping into the rich history of the game, recreating means trying to capture the stadiums, fashion, design of the period which the developers can have fun with. You can play as Maradona in the international dream team but the context history provides just adds so much richness. 

 

The Motogp games have scenarios, they take moments in the season (and classics ones too) where a rider got say a ride through penalty in the first lap then battled through the pack to finish unexpectedly on the podium. It just sounds exciting because you've been thrilled by the races and now get to become your favourite rider and 'be' them in a way that feels more engaging that 'being' them as you usually are when you pick them.

 

On 07/02/2020 at 00:11, Fry Crayola said:

It's an interesting problem to tackle. In theory, some element of it should be possible - both FIFA and PES have a system for telling you where you should be when you're playing the Be A Pro/Legend modes, and the AI needs to understand good positioning for the entire team, so it would be possible to pinpoint certain positioning errors, or where the absence of a defender left someone free in a certain space.

 

Then again, one game that'd clearly benefit from such a thing is Football Manager and it doesn't really bother, restricting its analysis to identifying "mistakes" as anywhere a player plays a clearly duff ball, or misses an obvious interception, instead of the umpteen times the ball is played in between the keeper and defence and the keeper stands there letting the attacker reach it first. If a game with the sole reason for existing is to implement AI tactics doesn't do it, I wouldn't hold out too much hope for the other lot.

 

Mostly i just want the developers to actually try to come up with ideas rather than seeming to spend the year of development tweaking the player stats and colours. 

 

I've come back to Pes2020 just because i wanted to play online. I was enjoying Pes 2019 on the highest aldifficulty but it was so hard i couldn't get near their box most of the time. They would tackle me relentlessly, not clean..fouls. I had about 15 goes trying to beat Arsenal to win the premier league with Man United and could never do it. 

 

With Pes 2020 my main issue is with the turning circle and player reaction speed, it limits being able to ever really dribble past players, even just shielding the ball is impossible. One of my favourite things is a camped defence and trying to break it down with passing and moving, dribbling in one direction with the intention to turn back is part of that. 

 

I think as the real game has moved towards pace and power away from tiki taka pro evo has tried to replicate it. Everything is about momentum, the opposition player has too big an advantage to dispossess you when you're trying to turn because of their momentum. It's so frustrating. 

 

It's just more limited, I have less ways i can score, less things i can do. Players in real life regularly drift pass opposition players, it's not that i want it to be like Fifa. The unresponsiveness is in the passing too, i quickly lightly tap because i know my player is dawdling and will be dispossessed. Every year they try to make it more organic and natural, they i think want those wild scuffed shots, that sense players need to commit fully to striking the ball and it can go awry sometimes. Pes 2019 on hardest is difficult because of the pressure and lack of space, it's not difficult to do the simplest things. The momentum football had been tweaked for years up to pes2019, but 2020 goes too far i think. 

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I don't have a problem with shielding but I agree that it's very difficult to beat a man you're running at, without either resorting to the trick stick or slowing your pace then darting in one direction. I find it much more reliable to work the space with one-twos and passing than trying to play like I'm 1999' Ryan Giggs, and that's a real shame.

 

I'm hoping the two-year gap in "proper" releases will give the team time to work on advancing the gameplay beyond where it is, but also completely overhauling the front end and game modes which have been stagnant for the best part of a decade. I remember an earlier tweet or something that mentioned that they can't remove third kits from the game database when they've been added, which suggested to me that there's a whole pile of legacy code that they need to get around to throwing out and starting over with.

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23 minutes ago, Pockets said:

It’s moving to Unreal 5 for PES 22 so you’d hope for some major changes. Whatever happens, part of me still expects to see those block menus and constant slow loading of things you don’t want it to load. And a non-adjustable transfer/wage budget of course. 

Waiting for the server just to play a quick game is pretty much guaranteed, isn't it?

 

I'd suspect in jumping engine, they'll be trying to avoid making the game much different. It's a massive change (and a massive headache) as it is and the last thing you'd want is some experimental gameplay changes on top of that. You'd be building on sand. 

 

It's bound to feel different though. It's also hard to make it like for like. 

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17 hours ago, GamesGamesGames said:

I'd like the gameplay to only be tweaked from 2020 tbh. Playing that on top difficulty is as good a single player game of football as there's been. You can 'do' just about everything, but it's bloody hard to do the things which are bloody hard to do. Excellent balance.

 

Not a chance. Not true. You can't successfully play quick intricate passing football that relies on the accuracy of the pass and quick responsiveness of the player. 

 

The game is not designed for passing football, it's designed for vertical counter attacking power football. Every pass you make the player receiving it is moving. I want to overload in attack and do one twos on the edge of the box, I've scored loads of goals like that in pes2019, but with 2020 they've just tweaked too much in favour of momentum football as opposed to the kind of stand still football i need to play in tight spaces. So of course i can do long through balls and my player runs into acres of space, i can then predictably find the runner. It's boring. If i want to pass to a player with no intent for him to move forward the defender has all the advantage to dispossess. My player is designed to move forward so he's slow in his touch when turning back. I make passes to draw in defenders, i need to be able to pass forward, touch, shield, pass back with ease, like pinball. I need to have the advantage when i have the ball, as long as i know what I'm going to do before i receive the ball. 

 

Game by game they've tweaked this and i complained about pes2019 at the time. It was still power football and you couldn't score outside the box from a standing shot, again it was all momentum play, you can generate the power if you connect passes beforehand. So..fine, pass pass pass, through ball back into space the striker gets a run up and blasts it into the net. Turning circle slower than before, ok but the momentum means you can feint dawdle dribble and dash the other way past players. Did that a lot. As long as the other player doesn't know you're gonna do it you could do it 80% of the time. Now they've further increased the strength of players without the ball. 

 

Online, 99% of people only want to play the final ball, one on one with keeper, or long ball out wide, cross into Ronaldo headed goal at the far post. Almost no one wants to have any build up play where they move the ball around and make space. 

 

I play football games to play the kind of football i don't see in real life. Very occassionly a team will do quick passing moves, it's not beyond them. I expect to be able to play like the very best of Barcelona. 

 

They're tweaking something that's not even realistic. Players in real life can turn with speed, their reactions are super quick, they're light on their feet and agile. That's not the game at all. They've allowed for faster passing but it doesn't mean anything without the reaction speed of the player receiving when building the play. Players in real life regularly drift past opposition players, like Foden the other day. Players in real life can score from 25 yards from standing, they don't need to be moving to generate power. 

 

They're always trying to move away from how robotic the game feels when you get used to it. The amount of overhit simple through balls on pes2020, when you're not even kicking back awkwardly. The amount of apparent fouls where you've just closed down a player but perhaps kicked his shin which isn't really on you. Pes2020 does not improve on Pes2019 in any way gameplay wise, and while i eventually adapted to pes 2019 i wouldn't say it was perfect either or beyond improvement. 

 

If you've got some quick passing goals through packed defences I'd like to see them. 

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I play intricate passing football in and around the box all the time, but you need to be thinking one step ahead while at the same time react to the situation as it develops. If your player is not facing the way you want when he receives the ball, you need to work with that and quickly see what options are available to you. Delicate lofts, slide-rule passes, dainty one-twos in tight spaces, laying the ball off for late arrivals, cutting inside and dinking a ball to the far post, it's all possible but not if you're constantly fighting against the lie of the land.

 

The through ball button is not just for defence splitting passes, it's perfect for teeing the ball up for a team mate arriving from midfield, for playing the ball parallel to the goal line, for working that extra bit of space to get the shot off or to catch a defence off guard. At least half of my passes on the field are played with the Y button, but they're not all through balls in the traditional sense.

 

Next time I play, I'll see if I can remember to catch some videos.

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Picked this up so I had something to play on my PS5.

 

Every time I try to play a Pro evo game it just reminds me how shit the new games are compared to the PS2 games. 

 

Will stick with it and maybe it will click but I'm not having much fun at the moment. 

 

 

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49 minutes ago, Fry Crayola said:

I play intricate passing football in and around the box all the time, but you need to be thinking one step ahead while at the same time react to the situation as it develops. If your player is not facing the way you want when he receives the ball, you need to work with that and quickly see what options are available to you. Delicate lofts, slide-rule passes, dainty one-twos in tight spaces, laying the ball off for late arrivals, cutting inside and dinking a ball to the far post, it's all possible but not if you're constantly fighting against the lie of the land.

 

The through ball button is not just for defence splitting passes, it's perfect for teeing the ball up for a team mate arriving from midfield, for playing the ball parallel to the goal line, for working that extra bit of space to get the shot off or to catch a defence off guard. At least half of my passes on the field are played with the Y button, but they're not all through balls in the traditional sense.

 

Next time I play, I'll see if I can remember to catch some videos.

 

I'd like to see! My favourite thing is the pass into space. I do think ahead. 

 

Here's my 10 replay saves from pes2019 online, not all passing goals but the ones that are i don't think would be possible on pes2020. Even the Hazard spin i don't think would be possible because I've been given the advantage. 

 

 

Here's one recently i liked

 

 

Not through a packed defence i know, those ones I've not generally saved because they're just 2 passes and i like the build up from the back. I am in loads of space here but i don't think pes2020 allows for the quick touch and pass at 5 seconds, and i think that last backheel is probably being overhit regardless of how delicately i press the button. 

 

I hope this is enough to convince i am not completely hopeless at the game. 

 

If i ever get anything like that with pes2020 I'll put it up. Actually going through some replay saves (only 5 now? They spoil us. Might it decrease to 1 eventually?) I got this February last year :lol:

 

 

But that doesn't negate my point. It's eventually too frustrating to try. 

 

These are more in line with what's possible, from earlier today, always passing in behind. If there is one big difference between old ps2 pro evo and new ps4 pro evo it's the ease and advantage you have to pass in behind. 

 

 

 

Also this save against the pes2019 computer is the best save I've seen. It's not even that good, but in the many thousands of games over decades i can't remember one as impressive. 

 

 

But look at the touch and turn at the beginning, i know i have a player behind me and i know i can move to my right as the defender approaches and play the pass around him. I'm not attempting it, hoping, i know i can do that with ease and with control.

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4 hours ago, Loik V credern said:

 

Not a chance. Not true. You can't successfully play quick intricate passing football that relies on the accuracy of the pass and quick responsiveness of the player. 

 

The game is not designed for passing football, it's designed for vertical counter attacking power football. Every pass you make the player receiving it is moving. I want to overload in attack and do one twos on the edge of the box, I've scored loads of goals like that in pes2019, but with 2020 they've just tweaked too much in favour of momentum football as opposed to the kind of stand still football i need to play in tight spaces. So of course i can do long through balls and my player runs into acres of space, i can then predictably find the runner. It's boring. If i want to pass to a player with no intent for him to move forward the defender has all the advantage to dispossess. My player is designed to move forward so he's slow in his touch when turning back. I make passes to draw in defenders, i need to be able to pass forward, touch, shield, pass back with ease, like pinball. I need to have the advantage when i have the ball, as long as i know what I'm going to do before i receive the ball. 

 

Game by game they've tweaked this and i complained about pes2019 at the time. It was still power football and you couldn't score outside the box from a standing shot, again it was all momentum play, you can generate the power if you connect passes beforehand. So..fine, pass pass pass, through ball back into space the striker gets a run up and blasts it into the net. Turning circle slower than before, ok but the momentum means you can feint dawdle dribble and dash the other way past players. Did that a lot. As long as the other player doesn't know you're gonna do it you could do it 80% of the time. Now they've further increased the strength of players without the ball. 

 

Online, 99% of people only want to play the final ball, one on one with keeper, or long ball out wide, cross into Ronaldo headed goal at the far post. Almost no one wants to have any build up play where they move the ball around and make space. 

 

I play football games to play the kind of football i don't see in real life. Very occassionly a team will do quick passing moves, it's not beyond them. I expect to be able to play like the very best of Barcelona. 

 

They're tweaking something that's not even realistic. Players in real life can turn with speed, their reactions are super quick, they're light on their feet and agile. That's not the game at all. They've allowed for faster passing but it doesn't mean anything without the reaction speed of the player receiving when building the play. Players in real life regularly drift past opposition players, like Foden the other day. Players in real life can score from 25 yards from standing, they don't need to be moving to generate power. 

 

They're always trying to move away from how robotic the game feels when you get used to it. The amount of overhit simple through balls on pes2020, when you're not even kicking back awkwardly. The amount of apparent fouls where you've just closed down a player but perhaps kicked his shin which isn't really on you. Pes2020 does not improve on Pes2019 in any way gameplay wise, and while i eventually adapted to pes 2019 i wouldn't say it was perfect either or beyond improvement. 

 

If you've got some quick passing goals through packed defences I'd like to see them. 

 

I don't save goals, but if you're interested in how to do what you're talking about you need to get stuck into fully manual passing, and off-the-ball runs. All completely doable though, and about equal finessewise to crazy dribbles through the whole opposing team.

 

Having said all that, if I think about my Pro Evo game before I nailed using the right-stick properly, I would have said similar to you. It's just down to a willingness to take all the stabilisers off and not be put off by the learning curve.

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2 minutes ago, GamesGamesGames said:

I don't save goals, but if you're interested in how to do what you're talking about you need to get stuck into fully manual passing, and off-the-ball runs. All completely doable though, and about equal finessewise to crazy dribbles through the whole opposing team.

 

Having said all that, if I think about my Pro Evo game before I nailed using the right-stick properly, I would have said similar to you. It's just down to a willingness to take all the stabilisers off and not be put off by the learning curve.

 

I don't see how this changes the slow reaction speed of players though, the awful turning, the heavy touches, you're constantly fighting the game. I did a throw in earlier and headed it back to the thrower and he'd moved and it went out of play. Not because i don't use manual passing but because the game is forcing its design on you, always forcing on you players moving vertically up the field. Every pass becomes the final ball whether you want it to be or not. 

 

I don't see what manual passing would give me that I'm not able to do in the passing goals in my 10 minute pes2019 video above. I've never felt I'm lacking accuracy using assisted passing. If i want longer quicker passes i just hold the button holder. 

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37 minutes ago, Pockets said:

Feels like time for one of my manual passing posts again. It really does open the game up and, once it clicks, it really feels like the game is supposed to be played like that - compared to FIFA where you’re very obviously not meant to use manual controls. Once you get advanced through balls down it’s like having Trent Alexander-Arnold’s right leg for a finger. 
 

At the moment though, I’ve gone back to default controls as I like the new camera but it makes manual trickier with the changing angles. Also, manual requires some concentration that I don’t have at the moment. 

 

Again, looking at the passing goals in my videos what would manual passing give me? As long as i can pass where i want and i can have players constantly making runs and supporting (every pass i make is a one two) I'm happy. Those goals are as good passing goals as you will see on the game. 

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13 hours ago, Loik V credern said:

 

I don't see how this changes the slow reaction speed of players though, the awful turning, the heavy touches, you're constantly fighting the game. I did a throw in earlier and headed it back to the thrower and he'd moved and it went out of play. Not because i don't use manual passing but because the game is forcing its design on you, always forcing on you players moving vertically up the field. Every pass becomes the final ball whether you want it to be or not. 

 

I don't see what manual passing would give me that I'm not able to do in the passing goals in my 10 minute pes2019 video above. I've never felt I'm lacking accuracy using assisted passing. If i want longer quicker passes i just hold the button holder. 

 

Manual passing on it's own will not do a great deal barring finesse, but married to using the right stick properly (which does mean you have to learn R3 use), it's a whole different game.

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Contrary to GamesGamesGames and Pockets, I don't use manual passing at all, and very rarely touch the trick stick. And I'll still say that intricate and satisfying football is possible in PES. 

 

Where we might differ is how we define intricate and satisfying football. That Man Utd goal you scored looks like a lot more like the pinball football of old, spamming first time passes until you're given a shooting opportunity. Modern PES asks you to do more to work that opportunity. The player receiving the ball is no longer capable of pinging an instant pass or taking a quick second touch. Momentum, as you say, matters enormously but it's not the problem you're claiming it to be, it simply means that it's no longer just the passes you play that matter, but also the moments between the pass - when to play it, where to play it, what the receiver is doing before you've even kicked it.

 

You say "every pass becomes the final ball whether you want it to be or not", and I firmly disagree, without going anywhere near manual controls.

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2 hours ago, GamesGamesGames said:

 

Manuel passing on it's own will not do a great deal barring finesse, but married to using the right stick properly (which does mean you have to learn R3 use), it's a whole different game.

 

Can you show some videos? I mean i don't have to over pass, but it's like playing underwater, or walking with a hobble, or playing a platformer where it's floaty, or a FPS where you can't aim accurately. After a while the inability to do the simplest basic thing is too frustrating. I'm gonna give it a rest a think, go back to Zombies. 

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55 minutes ago, Fry Crayola said:

Contrary to GamesGamesGames and Pockets, I don't use manual passing at all, and very rarely touch the trick stick. And I'll still say that intricate and satisfying football is possible in PES. 

 

Where we might differ is how we define intricate and satisfying football. That Man Utd goal you scored looks like a lot more like the pinball football of old, spamming first time passes until you're given a shooting opportunity. Modern PES asks you to do more to work that opportunity. The player receiving the ball is no longer capable of pinging an instant pass or taking a quick second touch. Momentum, as you say, matters enormously but it's not the problem you're claiming it to be, it simply means that it's no longer just the passes you play that matter, but also the moments between the pass - when to play it, where to play it, what the receiver is doing before you've even kicked it.

 

You say "every pass becomes the final ball whether you want it to be or not", and I firmly disagree, without going anywhere near manual controls.

 

I'm gonna have to see videos because i don't know what people mean. You don't think any of the goals in my videos are intricate? What are you doing on the game? Whether it's satisfying...there's only so many familiar patterns of play. 

 

Yeah i want to ping the ball around and have options, I like goals where the first passer carries his run on and the 3rd player plays him in. I mess around with formations and attacking options, support range, wide or centre atrack, possession or counter and players in positions with different teams until i get possibilities in attack. I don't really know what those attacking options do really but the players attributes in terms of strength or willingness to make runs probably matter more,  and then what worked previously against someone online doesn't work against another because of how they're set up in ways i can't work out. My passes are being broken up, they're sat back so much.

 

I want to dominate the ball. I've played people who ball hog and play safe, pass it wide and away from me, not allowing me to press but it's boring because they don't take any risks, they're so cautious not wanting to lose the ball. I prefer the back and forth. 

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11 hours ago, Loik V credern said:

You don't think any of the goals in my videos are intricate?

 

It's not that they're not intricate, it's that they resemble the game as it was before Konami tweaked the game to make first time, almost blind passes a lot more difficult to come off. Those versions of PES felt like you just needed to hit the pass button ahead of receiving and the ball would find its target, whether you were playing with Manchester City or Lokomotiv Tashkent.

 

Take the goal starting at 8:20 in your first vid - it's a great goal, no question, and If it happened in real life it's a sublime bit of counter-attacking, nigh-perfect first-touch football that should be winning every Puskas award going. When it happens in a game where such touches are more commonplace, it loses something.

 

In terms of style of play, though, the more satisfying of the goals I score tend to be like the one I scored last night in the Master League:  http://video.xboxdvr.com/gamer/fry-crayola/video/124402932, a bit of build up play to work an opportunity, then spotting that Ramadani had a better opportunity than trying to control and then turn with Bjerre. It's not a classic goal by any means, but I felt rewarded for my patience and quick thinking, rather than the playing a series of immaculate first time passes in all directions which always felt too much like an exploit.

 

Also, stick around after the video for a lovely example of why I'm not allowed to drive!

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On 03/02/2021 at 11:11, Fry Crayola said:

 

It's not that they're not intricate, it's that they resemble the game as it was before Konami tweaked the game to make first time, almost blind passes a lot more difficult to come off. Those versions of PES felt like you just needed to hit the pass button ahead of receiving and the ball would find its target, whether you were playing with Manchester City or Lokomotiv Tashkent.

 

Take the goal starting at 8:20 in your first vid - it's a great goal, no question, and If it happened in real life it's a sublime bit of counter-attacking, nigh-perfect first-touch football that should be winning every Puskas award going. When it happens in a game where such touches are more commonplace, it loses something.

 

In terms of style of play, though, the more satisfying of the goals I score tend to be like the one I scored last night in the Master League:  http://video.xboxdvr.com/gamer/fry-crayola/video/124402932, a bit of build up play to work an opportunity, then spotting that Ramadani had a better opportunity than trying to control and then turn with Bjerre. It's not a classic goal by any means, but I felt rewarded for my patience and quick thinking, rather than the playing a series of immaculate first time passes in all directions which always felt too much like an exploit.

 

Also, stick around after the video for a lovely example of why I'm not allowed to drive!

 

That's a nice goal. I'm surprised you got that much space in the box after cutting back but i did watch that thinking when you layed it up the receiving player wouldn't be prepared and fall over. It is those abrupt touches that are heavier, the amount of times I've passed to a player and the ball bounces way ahead and then it's too late, the defender blocks. 

 

I do forget to mention poor connections online massively affect player reactions and the turning circle, which i doubt Konami take into account when tweaking the game but i wish they did. I play on ps4, use a cable and pes 2019 was far more consistent. I'd play at 1am and it'd be rapid and some of the end to end games were thrilling but so frequent they almost lost their excitement. I went through virtually every team wishing there were more outstanding sides out there.

 

I've found a formation i like that's made a big difference. I usually have a back 4 then a tight diamond with 2 ahead. I've kept the diamond but placed the 2 strikers wide. My issue is once the opposition get past the press there's a hole in midfield. I've had 6 defenders, walls, players inbetween the lines, it never seems to matter and i concede. My longest winning run online was about 13 with Leicester, long ball to Vardy. This was ages ago. It's like i never play people who want to attack in  numbers so i can never counter attack. 

 

I am enjoying it so that's all that matters, I'm not going to convince anyone it's not the definitive version. There are times when I've felt like i got the old pes back. I've been doing feints then turning back down the line, the odd straight on use of pace to dash past. 

 

Sometimes i pick Ajax and it's footballing bliss, this time Tadic was amazing. This is the first time I've been able to spin back past a defender. I always loved doing that. Occasionally it fails in the middle of the pitch and they score though. 

 

 

Never gets old

 

 

 

 

 

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On 03/02/2021 at 12:00, Marlowe said:

I'm still playing master league PES 2017 which I found to be the best entry since PES6.

 

Has the core game moved on much since then?

 

I went back to Pes 2015 the other day expecting it to feel strange but it didn't, though going the other way to pes 2020 is. Other than everything I've gone on and on about, something even from pes 2019 that's been significant is how easy players fall over when pressed, and how often they're called for fouls. Maybe others find this such a realistic improvement but often you're just moving to block the space then your player sticks a foot in or gently leans on the player with the ball and it's so marginal as to be only noticeable on the replay. It was always that pressing required more running and effort and was riskier when leaving yourself exposed behind but was worth it because if you were quick and anticipated well you could break. 

 

It's going to get interesting because the worst aspects of the sport will begin to be reflected in the game and this feels part of that, they'll be working on goals being disallowed for handball too. Another thing is the increased obsession with offside, so previously I'm sure if you were offside but the opposition made the interception the play would continue. Why would you stop play for offside when you don't even get the ball? Then the replay showing the line as though anyone cares. I can't even remember when offside calls shown in replays were introduced but they're tedious. Maybe there's a way to turn them off I've missed. The game is a lot more stop start. I don't even know why they've slowed down the keeper kicks from 2019 where they sped them up because they've always been delayed. 

 

I played pes 2019 online a lot, but with 2020 it's reaching the point where I'm not even sure I'm going to press, I'm giving away so many free kicks outside the box and if they were mistimed sliding tackles i wouldn't mind. 

 

I got a red card one time for basically getting the ball. That has happened before where you catch the player as well but this time it was pretty clean. It was fast and hard sure so it made me think any fast and hard tackle would get a red. 

 

I prefer it to Fifa obviously, I'm just about adapting to it, i can turn back and sprint away more than before. But i can't see it being the definitive version or having something that the others lacked. Ultimately it will always become robotic as you adjust to it and fall in line with how to play it. I could easily play and enjoy pes 2015, 16 more. In 2020 if i pass forward to a runner into the box and the defender is running along with me inside i don't want to just run forward and find the near post corner but i don't really have much choice. I want to sometimes stop, and cut back. 

 

Another maddening thing is the overhit square pass through ball, something which is losing me games. It is somewhat broken and inconsistent because it didn't happen in any of the previous games. The game just has these moments where however delicately you press the through ball the pass is overhit, and it doesn't capture the unpredictable nature of football, it seems broken because all of your play might be swift and accurate except that one moment. Which is actually the easiest part of the move. You aren't turning back, falling over. You're running towards the keeper and doing a simple 5 yard square pass, the easiest pass in football. I'm not learning convoluted manual controls to do simple square passes which you could do on the previous games every time. I don't know what they were tweaking that threw it out, maybe that's improved on 2021. I've started doing chip through balls instead..still overhit. When you have the turning circle of an oil tanker it's dispiriting to pass your way to a one on one because you certainly can't dribble your way there, only to have the last minute winning goal hopelessly fall away. 

 

Maybe it's the sprint running the game is judging as affecting simple passes? I was thinking maybe turn in a bit. Can professionals not play square simple passes when running fast? 

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53 minutes ago, Fry Crayola said:

Sometimes I think you're playing a different game to me entirely.

 

The turning and reaction speed is worse with the connection issues online, it is often all over the place. Unlike the previous games online it shows up 'connection status with opponent', 1, 2 or 3 bars strong and i usually wait for 3. Playing offline it is far faster and more responsive.

 

You must have seen the overhit passes though, the heavy touches and players falling over when you lean on them. I was just playing pes 2021 lite, offline and this summed it up:

 

 

The lightest of triangle button taps, not a hard pass, obvious what i want to do. I could try the exact same thing again another time, it's a frequently used move, and it wouldn't be over hit. 

 

Heavy touch:

 

 

This is just something the designers want, the same thing would happen every time, doesn't allow for build up in tight spaces. That pass is not a final ball, it's not hit hard, but the apparent momentum of the player receiving bounces it up. 

 

Another whatt moment where it's a simple pass i intend to do

 

 

That's so far out from my intention. It's like it thinks i want to play behind the defender and i want it in front. None of these would happen on pes 2019 or the previous games. It has these inexplicable moments that are so random. 

 

I'm Argentina too, so one those players was probably messi or dybala. 

 

All those were in 5 minutes. 

 

I had the perfect leaning on a player foul but forgot to save it. Anyway here's my red card:

 

 

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I bought pes 2021 because it's lockdown and I'm fucking bored. :hmm:

 

All i read was that it was 'slower', but i can't see that. The passing feels tighter, more accurate. Salah seems quicker, players a little more responsive turning maybe. I was just hoping for better connections online.

 

Not to keep going on and on about the over hit through balls and heavy touches but i think if they varied it i wouldn't mind so much, and it would be realistic if worse players couldn't control passes as tightly. That would be cool actually when you realise you can't do things you usually do, you'd appreciate the better players more. Generally when I've played online as say Stoke and I'm up against Juventus they're just quicker, supercharged, like Guardiola's teams at their best, like they have an extra player. I can't stop them from scoring. I could still pass around them, and i remember how much effort I'd have to put in because 99% of people did just pick Bayern, Barcelona, PSG, Juventus. I'd think; not just more speed and strength but the confidence boost of a winning run usually, i can't beat a 890 rated player because he mostly always wins, therefore statistically he's likely to win against me too. 

 

I'd like variation in keeper saves. There's the near post low shot that any keeper always saves, and when you've hit the ball so hard and fast it appears as a wonder save when it's just the inevitability of the game's calculation playing out. A shot can go in near post because of its power and then accuracy doesn't matter, it's like a bullet and that too feels inevitable. What shots keepers can and can't save is something they've worked on a lot over the past 5 games. I think some of those low shots should go in, typically keepers can't get down quickly enough, if players in real life shoot early and accurately power isn't even that necessary. But they're more straight on shots. When there is an angle on the game it will just go; no. You get a corner out of them and apply attacking pressure but every time it seems like a waste of possession in the box. 

 

I can see manual shooting having more than an effect than passing. I've never blasted wide as badly or a frequently. Maybe there's some guides on YouTube. 

 

Yes, i do always think; why am i spending so much time playing the same game, staring at the same green grass with players making the same movements, the passing patterns always essentially the same, there's so much more visually stimulating games out there and you're wasting your eyes on this. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Haaland is amazing in this. Pes does a great job of capturing the animations of nig players, even those who have only just emerged. It really feels like playing as Haaland, he has the deceptively quick pace, the ability to just accelerate ahead, the power, the shot power. In my 2nd game as Norway he got a hat trick and gets a goal every game and a 7.5 rating. He's so quick on the turn, my shots aren't so wayward. 

 

It's still insane to me that several versions of 1 of the 2 football games available exclude a big team like Dortmund. Him and Sancho would be great, Sancho is pretty highly rated. Do get 516 for a Norway win and they're pretty good. Odegard plays some incisive passes.

 

I've often picked teams to make the most of certain players and it's never worked out. Every time i pick Barcelona Messi gets shoved off the ball and i lose. Rashford has always been a reliable player on the left. This game though...not. Unlike real life Fernandes is kryptonite and i can't win with them anymore since his inclusion. And i used to play fast stuff with Lingard. 

 

Also recently been playing as Newcastle, they're pretty good, and Carroll's shot power and positioning are also good. The game has this thing where certain players stand out despite their attributes not being the highest, so Saint-Maximin seems the fastest player, I'm pulling away from defenders and really using his pace. His pace stats aren't as good as Aubameyang. Okay, same formation, put Aubameyang in the same position. Can't replicate the same effectiveness, dunno why. Always lose with Arsenal. And Man City. 

 

For me pes 2021 is far better. The connections online are better. The fouls are still annoying though. You get the ball but the player trips slightly..foul. Dunno how people are so good at free kicks with no training mode. All mine don't dip. Eriksen scored 2 against me in 1 game. Instead i pass forward, then back, then chip over for the volley. It has worked a handful of times. 

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35 minutes ago, Loik V credern said:

It's still insane to me that several versions of 1 of the 2 football games available exclude a big team like Dortmund.

 

It's no surprise that it's licensing at work here, but it's doubly difficult with the German league because the players aren't members of FIFPro, like they are in England and Spain. That means Konami can fill cheap knock offs of Aston Villa and Eibar with real players, but they can't do so in Germany so we never get that league in even its bastardised form.

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