Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom (Breath of the Wild 2) 12th May 2023

[Stanley]

47 minutes ago, simms said:

 

I won’t labour the point too much otherwise I’ll upset somebody. That’s all good to play on original Switch hardware but when Tears of Kingdom is emulated it will be literally the same exact game as the native switch version which you can play vanilla so not to break anything or at a more stable frame rate, 60fps, boost res, frame rate mods etc.  

That’s cool, but I’m still going to play it on my OLED, it can’t emulate that. 
 

How do you know increasing the frame rate to 60fps doesn’t interfere with the game’s input btw? One thing I loved about BOTW was that controlling Link felt perfect, they’d managed input delay and frame timing really well, this was especially important when fighting Lionels. 
 

I’m not knocking emulation in the slightest, I think it’s become an important way of preserving our past, but if I have the chance I’m a bit of a purist and like to experience things first time the way they are intended.
 

My first Zelda was ALTTP and I played it on a PAL SNES with borders on the top and bottom of the screen and 17.5% slower, but I cherish those memories, you know. Years after that I bought myself a US ‘scart’ SNES and played the game again at full speed, full screen etc. which objectively is how it was intended to be played, but it didn’t feel better than when I first played it. 
 

As for messing with textures, draw distance, resolution and so on (shudders). 
 

And I believe there’s even a mod which can get rid of degradable weapons 

[Calashnikov]

Look to Xenoblade Chronicles 3 for a realistic idea of how this is going to look and perform in terms of dynamic resolutions and frame rates etc. XC3 was supposedly a colossal improvement over XC2 which was developed and released at a similar time to BotW. Remember, of course, that Monolith Soft were, and are, involved in these open world Zelders.

 

 

TotK will hopefully be perfectly fine and, in fact, technically impressive in terms of the tune that it gets out of the Switch. We shouldn’t worry that it’s going to come out like some sort of Pokemon Scarlet/Violet hot mess.

[Strafe]

Wouldn’t looking to Breath of the Wild be a more realistic idea of how it’s going to look? BotW looks better than XBC3 for sure.

[Stanley]

XC3 has a lot more going on, the screen is filled at times. Until we see more of the game we have no idea how much more ambitious [than BOTW] it is. The snippets we’ve seen look fine, certainly no cause for concern, but there’s barely anything to go on. 
 

Direct next week 

[SuperCapes]

12 minutes ago, Strafe said:

Wouldn’t looking to Breath of the Wild be a more realistic idea of how it’s going to look? BotW looks better than XBC3 for sure.

 

Not at all. Stylistically you may prefer BOTW, but XC3 is far superior from a technical standpoint. Monolith have clear figured out how to get the most out of the Tegra, and I am sure many of its learnings will be utilized in TOTK. 

 

The problems I see with TOTK is the far distances you can travel very quickly, but I am sure they have it sorted. 

 

[Calashnikov]

16 minutes ago, Strafe said:

Wouldn’t looking to Breath of the Wild be a more realistic idea of how it’s going to look? BotW looks better than XBC3 for sure.

In terms of LOD and upscaling etc

[SuperCapes]

Enemy variety too! They have figured out how to have multiple animations on the go at once which is huge, so you know... More variety please Ninty (please!).

 

 

[Strafe]

XBC3 looks blurry by comparison and has rubbish grass. I’ve been keeping this secret but I actually run digital foundry and this is a confirmed expert analysis.

[SuperCapes]

18 minutes ago, Strafe said:

XBC3 looks blurry by comparison and has rubbish grass. I’ve been keeping this secret but I actually run digital foundry and this is a confirmed expert analysis.

 

Haha nice.

 

Grass is again a style choice, and as for blurriness I am pretty sure BOTW had pretty aggressive dynamic resolution scaling.

 

Xenoblade has textures with alot more information in them which does make it much more obvious when it is scaling. 

 

Regardless this is nearly a ten year old chip, and expecting anything else is just going to lead to disappointment. 

 

It will have great Art Direction, and that for me counts for way more than anything else. 

 

We will see in the next few weeks I imagine.

[Strafe]

Yeah, being more serious I guess you’re right. For me BOTW shows that art direction gives better visuals than whatever it is XB3 is doing, it always looked pretty sharp. I guess that’s the advantage of cell shading. As long as tears looks as good as the first one then I’ll be happy.

[Chosty]

I've resumed my Master mode playthrough of BOTW in the hope I'll finish it before Tears comes out, and I'm still finding new things after what must be at least 300 hours across this and my Normal mode playthrough.

 

For example, I was sneaking up on a couple of bokoblins on horseback by the coast, hoping to hit them with an arrow. Their horses started wading into the water, then as they got deeper, the bokoblins fell off, thrashed around a bit then drowned. I'm not particularly bothered if the new game doesn't look all that much more impressive visually (though of course it would be nice, and I'm sure it will), but I hope the new game has loads more charming, incidental detail like that.

[Calashnikov]

13 minutes ago, Strafe said:

As long as tears looks as good as the first one then I’ll be happy.

What we’re trying to tell you is that it’s going to look better than the first one  As per XC2 to XC3 improvements.

[Majora]

I think the formula Nintendo established with BOTW works nicely for very old and limited hardware.

 

BOTW is a case study in how effective and important negative space can be. Hyrule is basically divided up into hundreds of small islands of activity with wide open space between them. This makes it easy for players to scope out places they want to check out in the distance and allows for that very free-form style of exploration that other open world games can struggle with because the screen is so oversaturated with detail.

 

And that works perfectly with the Switch's limited hardware as you don't have to render too much on screen at any given time. It's telling that it's the dense areas where the engine struggled the most in BOTW, like the forests, rather than the open outdoor areas.

 

I can't say I'm thrilled at the prospect of likely playing this at 900p and 30fps in the space year 2023 but it is what it is. I'm sure I'll get used to it within 20 minutes.

[CrichStand]

Having gone back to BOTW to finish it before TotK, I've been amazed at how jaw droppingly incredible it looks. Granted the TV is upscaling it to 4k and faking 60fps, which makes a massive difference, but its running on Switch. It looks more like its running on a PS5/Xbox! Nintendo are Wizards. Imagine what they could get out of the new machines.

[JPL]

6 minutes ago, CrichStand said:

Having gone back to BOTW to finish it before TotK, I've been amazed at how jaw droppingly incredible it looks. Granted the TV is upscaling it to 4k and faking 60fps, which makes a massive difference, but its running on Switch. It looks more like its running on a PS5/Xbox! Nintendo are Wizards. Imagine what they could get out of the new machines.

You haven’t got motion smoothing on your tv have you?

[SuperCapes]

I have said it before, but honestly I just want some iconic areas to explore that have more life to them than the same repeated enemies. Environments that have puzzles in them outside of the shrines that lead to something exciting. And a bunch of new enemies and non repeated large/boss creatures to populate them. 

 

I understand the draw and pull of BOTW. It is soaked in style and great mystery. I just need more visual and gameplay rewards than it offered. 

 

I am not particularly hopeful it will have enough new to hook me personally in, but as an enormous Zelda fan I pray to be surprised. And at worst, I have always got the past to enjoy from time to time. 

 

[Stanley]

48 minutes ago, SuperCapes said:

I have said it before, but honestly I just want some iconic areas to explore that have more life to them than the same repeated enemies. Environments that have puzzles in them outside of the shrines that lead to something exciting. And a bunch of new enemies and non repeated large/boss creatures to populate them. 

 

I understand the draw and pull of BOTW. It is soaked in style and great mystery. I just need more visual and gameplay rewards than it offered. 

 

I am not particularly hopeful it will have enough new to hook me personally in, but as an enormous Zelda fan I pray to be surprised. And at worst, I have always got the past to enjoy from time to time. 

 

What are your favourite Zeldas out of interest? 

[Strafe]

52 minutes ago, SuperCapes said:

I have said it before, but honestly I just want some iconic areas to explore that have more life to them than the same repeated enemies. Environments that have puzzles in them outside of the shrines that lead to something exciting. And a bunch of new enemies and non repeated large/boss creatures to populate them. 

 

I understand the draw and pull of BOTW. It is soaked in style and great mystery. I just need more visual and gameplay rewards than it offered. 

 

I am not particularly hopeful it will have enough new to hook me personally in, but as an enormous Zelda fan I pray to be surprised. And at worst, I have always got the past to enjoy from time to time. 

 

 

[SuperCapes]

@Strafe you are not wrong.

 

@Stanley Majora's Mask, Wind Waker and A Link to the Past are probably the three that always work for me, but I could take pretty much any up to and including Skyward Sword. Finished all of them three times plus. 

 

Nostalgia is my enemy when it comes to this, but I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I don't think what I would like to see would be detrimental to the game at all. I am not asking for gated dungeons. I personally think dungeons with multi approach possibilities would be way better. Like a bunch of mini Hyrule Castles. 

 

I am expecting some pushback as always. For some reason asking for more, or having a different opinion BOTW is like insulting a fans favourite football team. 

 

Add a different opinion in and everybody loses their minds. But then again... Maybe I just want to watch the world burn? 

[SuperCapes]

Also just to clarify I think it will be a phenomenal game. But feel free to pile on regardless ha!

[Stanley]

Nah you can only be honest with yourself can’t you, you can’t pretend you like it more than you do. I am the same with The Witcher III, I quite like the idea of it but I find it quite boring and the combat poor, but for some people that’s their favourite game ever. 
 

I can’t believe it’s been six years since BOTW, and a lot has happened since then, there’s probably loads of stuff I’ve forgotten about completely. 
 

I think TOTK will be absolutely incredible, and I think it will integrate more traditional style dungeons into the overworld, even though I’ve based that on nothing. Three months from launch and we know so little. 

[moosegrinder]

4 minutes ago, Stanley said:

Three months from launch and we know so little. 

 

It's fucking brilliant, isn't it?

[CrichStand]

1 hour ago, JPL said:

You haven’t got motion smoothing on your tv have you?

 

I turn it on for Zelda. It's like night and day. Image quality is great and it looks nigh on identical to proper 60fps. No bad lag like on older TVs either. Only issue is, if you spin the camera around Link over and over, you get some artifacting towards the edges of the screen......so i just don't spin the camera around repeatedly. Think it all comes down to how each model of TV handles it and whether it works well for the game. If it works well and improves things then I use it!

[Stanley]

1 minute ago, moosegrinder said:

 

It's fucking brilliant, isn't it?

It builds excitement that’s for sure. I’m bursting to play it 

[Stanley]

2 minutes ago, CrichStand said:

 

I turn it on for Zelda. It's like night and day. Image quality is great and it looks nigh on identical to proper 60fps. No bad lag like on older TVs either. Only issue is, if you spin the camera around Link over and over, you get some artifacting towards the edges of the screen......so i just don't spin the camera around repeatedly. Think it all comes down to how each model of TV handles it and whether it works well for the game. If it works well and improves things then I use it!

What TV are you using? I’ve never tried anything like that, but doesn’t it at least add some input lag? 

[scottcr]

11 minutes ago, moosegrinder said:

 

It's fucking brilliant, isn't it?

Aye!

[SuperCapes]

The trailer from January 2017 for BOTW was absolutely staggering. Fan of the game or not, that trailer absolutely stomps. 

 

I imagine the trailer for this will be just as good. 

[scottcr]

Is this the longest dev time for a big Zelda? 

[Stanley]

1 minute ago, scottcr said:

Is this the longest dev time for a big Zelda? 

Maybe, Ocarina might have been longer. 

[Strafe]

I might be one of the few people who didn’t lament the lack of dungeons in BOTW.

I thought the shrines were perfect in that they didn’t take too long and I could get out exploring again. Plus the divine beasts were more or less proper dungeons, weren’t they? Especially the DLC one.

 

I do worry with Tears of the Kingdom is that the overworld will just be a rejigged version of the one in BOTW and I’ll get bored having spent so much time in the first game. But then I’m also worried that they’ll change too much so I can’t win.