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Football Thread 2019/2020


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Does anyone have any inkling on how premier league managers’ contracts work? It’s a strange job in that you pretty much know you’re going to get fired at some point, and so there must be some financial benefit for being kicked out the door at a moment’s notice? 
 

 

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13 minutes ago, Gigawatt said:

Does anyone have any inkling on how premier league managers’ contracts work? It’s a strange job in that you pretty much know you’re going to get fired at some point, and so there must be some financial benefit for being kicked out the door at a moment’s notice? 
 

 

 

Don't they get a big chunk of their remaining wages paid? Jose has reportedly made millions and millions from getting sacked.

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it's mostly by negotiation isn't it.

 

sometimes they get a flat payoff (which may or may not be contractually agreed upfront) and that's it, they're gone.

 

if not then I believe usual HR rules apply (as odd as that may be) - Conte for example was paid by Chelsea for ages and even took them to court for unfair dismissal (more to prove a point and generate noise as the payout is capped quite low even for somebody on his wages).

 

I believe there are even instances of clubs relieving a manager of his first team duties (code for gardening leave on full pay) then demanding compensation when another team comes in for them. It's feasible some managers who don't find new work get paid out for quite a while, but manager merry go round often sees somebody else's failure soon scooped up elsewhere.

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like you say the players have resale value (in theory), but it's also a similar dynamic you see in workplaces a lot too - failing projects its easier for management to look busy and like they are taking action by binning a project manager, far harder to change the whole team under them who may be crap. Similar thing happens in retail too with store/section managers.

 

its lazy management from the top, always easier to bin a manager, and never a shortage of people lining up to say ' I can get a better tune out of that group, they are under performing massively'

 

no general ever got given a command saying a hill couldn't be taken.

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I remember when Roberto Di Matteo was sacked by Chelsea, he was still getting his £130,000-a-week salary a year after. As he and Chelsea had never agreed on a pay-off settlement 

He was getting the wage for the rest of his contract or until he took another job. Sure he just played golf for all that time.

Think the contract ended in June 2014 and then in October he was appointed Schalke 04 manager.

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Alan Pardew's contract with Newcastle ended this month.  I think Moyes' with Man Utd ended this time last year.

 

Normally, I think it is a negotiated payoff though the manager is entitled to the full amount.  The club is entitled to pay that amount over the length of the contract.  Seeing as the manager usually wants to get another job and the club want to get rid, arrangements are made.  It's not really in anyone's interests to hold each other to the exact terms of the contract.

 

Big Sams villa in Spain is apparently named Casa St James after he bought it with his Newcastle payoff.

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16 hours ago, Steely said:

Fancy not playing your best team in an FA Cup semi final. Pure arrogance from Ole. :lol:

 

I think it was more preservation than arrogance but I agree with the sentiment. With Leicester's troubles continuing, United have a much clearer path to Champions League football, and this was a trophy that was eminently winnable. The FA Cup may be a waning competition in terms of importance, and winning it isn't going to do for Ole what it did for Ferguson back in 1990, but in professional sport it can't be just the taking part that counts. Get out there and win stuff.

 

I still think I'd rather see the FA Cup winners than 4th place go into the CL, but even without that carrot you really should be looking to win the second biggest trophy in the country when the first is so far out of reach.

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United are currently level with Leicester on points (and goal difference, Leicester are 4th due to goals scored) and they meet each other at Old Trafford on the final day. Manchester United have a game in hand.  I'd imagine Ole has been told that Manchester United need to smash West Ham in midweek so that even if Leicester win at Old Trafford then United will still qualify for the big cup on goal difference. 

 

Broadly speaking I agree with the idea that you don't tell your grandkids about the year you finished 4th, but in this instance I can totally see that there would be huge pressure from boardroom level not to blow it.  

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They did play largely their first team, though.  Shaw was out injured, so only three of the first team didn't play - Pogba, Martial, and Greenwood.  Ole changed his formation to a 3-5-2, that's the issue for me.  United went too defensive and gave Chelsea too much respect, rather than they arrogantly played a second team.  James coming in for Greenwood happened because James is better defensively and effective in games where United want to sit back and hit on the break.  Bailly in for one of the strikers is a change that facilitated the change in formation.  Fred in for Pogba was a defensive move as well.  The whole thing was a huge mistake, obviously, and I was saying as much before the game.  It was a complete shitshow from start to finish and could have a huge effect on United's form between now and the end of the season.

 

I don't think Chelsea are being given enough credit, by the way.  Their pressing was fantastic throughout, and the scoreline flattered United in the end.  Southampton and Chelsea have shown that the way to play against United is to press them and get in their faces with a lot of energy.  It's entirely possible that West Ham will do the same thing, and a United who have started looking shaky in the last three games could find their season collapsing.  I suspect we'll need to win the Europa League.

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2 hours ago, Naysonymous said:

Broadly speaking I agree with the idea that you don't tell your grandkids about the year you finished 4th, but in this instance I can totally see that there would be huge pressure from boardroom level not to blow it.  

 

This.

 

But conversely, in 15 years Ole might have chosen to turn down being a trophy winning Manchester United manager in favour of what in the big list will look like a fairly average league finish.

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I think it's more likely Ole will be replaced by Pochettino if United fail to reach 4th than for a semi final defeat. Also the final game is at Leicester's ground isn't it? I know it's an obvious take: not reach 4th, get sacked, but despite the run recently if the next 2 games are a draw and a loss that's a real disappointment. I'd still want Ole to stay on, mind. But if Pochettino is waiting and willing, United might decide otherwise.

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1 hour ago, ryodi said:

Pep is spending £35m on Nathan Ake to improve City's defence. This means one of Ottomedi or Stones is going suffer the fate of all the nearly greats and end up playing for West Ham doesn't it?

As long as they keep their filthy mitts off Ben White, I don't care :lol:

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Anyone had season ticket details through for their clubs?

 

Cardiff have just given us two weeks to renew for next season after indications fans will be allowed back sooner than expected (??!!).

 

Same price as last year, but if games are behind closed doors (and best case the first few will be) then no refund but you get a code to stream the game subject to agreement from whichever league we are in. If it’s reduced capacity and you aren’t chosen then streaming and unclear if you get any sort of refund.

 

Big ask to get us to pay out for what could be a lot of games streamed on a laptop especially if you get unlucky with reduced capacity games you are allowed to go to  being ones you can’t go to for whatever reason.

 

Not sure what I’ll do especially as I have to renew my sons ticket as well and his opportunities will be even less if we get tickets for night games.

 

And this is assuming I’m happy to go to the ground in a few months anyway even if it is open?

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2 hours ago, ryodi said:

Pep is spending £35m on Nathan Ake to improve City's defence. This means one of Ottomedi or Stones is going suffer the fate of all the nearly greats and end up playing for West Ham doesn't it?

 

Interesting, Chelsea have first refusal, which means they've turned down a known player in a position weak for them.  

 

Then again City can officially spend what they damn well please so it's not like the money matters to them.

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9 hours ago, Ork1927 said:

Anyone had season ticket details through for their clubs?

 

Cardiff have just given us two weeks to renew for next season after indications fans will be allowed back sooner than expected (??!!).

 

Same price as last year, but if games are behind closed doors (and best case the first few will be) then no refund but you get a code to stream the game subject to agreement from whichever league we are in. If it’s reduced capacity and you aren’t chosen then streaming and unclear if you get any sort of refund.

 

Big ask to get us to pay out for what could be a lot of games streamed on a laptop especially if you get unlucky with reduced capacity games you are allowed to go to  being ones you can’t go to for whatever reason.

 

Not sure what I’ll do especially as I have to renew my sons ticket as well and his opportunities will be even less if we get tickets for night games.

 

And this is assuming I’m happy to go to the ground in a few months anyway even if it is open?

 

Not a season ticket holder but my membership was renewed yesterday. No future ticketing information across Liverpool's various pages at the minute though. The members' sales are generally a shitshow anyway, and expecting next to zero tickets for non season-ticket holders next season.

 

Thought the latest proposal for discussion was reduced capacity in stadiums, although there was no indication of how existing season ticket holders would be accomodated. There was even talk of allowing alcohol in stands and closing toilets at half-time to reduce crowd movement / contact. Sounds fine in the stands themselves, but there are so many bottlenecks at Anfield (and many grounds) that most measures would appear to be hope-for-the-best solutions. Is having mandatory masks workable? Or staggered entry points? Even if, for example, Anfield is 25% capacity, that's almost 14,000 people funnelled through areas in and around the ground with no choice but for close contact, so how long before an infection triggers another suspension?

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Vital win for Wolves last night - 2nd home win in a row against a side who looked like they'd rather have been anywhere else except on a football pitch.  I guess in these sterile atmospheres with no threat of relegation but no realistic hopes of Europe, it's harder than usual to motivate yourself but even so - both Everton and Palace have been very poor.

 

Still - a win is a win.  Podence looks like a superb signing, and seeing Traore absolutely destroy McArthur and Mitchell for our 2nd was tremendous.

 

We need to beat Chelsea at Stamford Bridge to secure 6th spot which is a hell of a tall order (no way are Spurs dropping points at Palace after what I saw from the latter yesterday) but it would be fitting if we managed a famous result to ensure a famous finish to the season.  Even if we fall short and end up in 7th, it's been a superb season - an improvement to last in terms of points, goals for and against and of course juggling a decent Europa League run on top of that with the smallest squad in the league.

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3 hours ago, Boothjan said:

Vital win for Wolves last night - 2nd home win in a row against a side who looked like they'd rather have been anywhere else except on a football pitch.  I guess in these sterile atmospheres with no threat of relegation but no realistic hopes of Europe, it's harder than usual to motivate yourself but even so - both Everton and Palace have been very poor.

 

Still - a win is a win.  Podence looks like a superb signing, and seeing Traore absolutely destroy McArthur and Mitchell for our 2nd was tremendous.

 

We need to beat Chelsea at Stamford Bridge to secure 6th spot which is a hell of a tall order (no way are Spurs dropping points at Palace after what I saw from the latter yesterday) but it would be fitting if we managed a famous result to ensure a famous finish to the season.  Even if we fall short and end up in 7th, it's been a superb season - an improvement to last in terms of points, goals for and against and of course juggling a decent Europa League run on top of that with the smallest squad in the league.

 

The late Burnley and Sheffield United goals have fucked us unfortunately.  I think it'll be 7th or 8th which is a decent season, especially having improved our points total, but I'll bloody miss Europe next season.

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2 minutes ago, dr_manhattan^ said:

 

The late Burnley and Sheffield United goals have fucked us unfortunately.  I think it'll be 7th or 8th which is a decent season, especially having improved our points total, but I'll bloody miss Europe next season.

 

You're still in the Europa aren't you? You're a good enough team right now to win that.

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10 minutes ago, Stigweard said:

 

You're still in the Europa aren't you? You're a good enough team right now to win that.

 

We are yes, but we have a tough route to a potential final now.  Our tie with Olympiakos is on a knife edge, and I think they'll just about beat us, if we get through then it's either Roma or Seville, and Seville have won five of the last ten Europa Leagues, and Roma aren't too bad either.

 

If we get through to the Semi then it's probably Manchester United, who we haven't beat in four games this season.

 

So I'm not confident.

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1 minute ago, Plissken said:

Looking at this seasons competition, I'd put money on Wolves winning it before I would put money on Manchester United doing so.

 

And Roma aren't all that, either.

Fair enough, I think we're about 4th favourites behind United, Frankfurt and someone else.

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