Football Thread 2019/2020

[Smoothy]

The official Laws of the Game for 2019/2020 says this:

 

Quote

Goal/no goal

• attacking team offence in the build-up to or scoring of the goal (handball, foul, offside etc.)
• ball out of play prior to the goal
• goal/no goal decisions
• offence by goalkeeper and/or kicker at the taking of a penalty kick or encroachment by an attacker or defender who becomes directly involved in play if the penalty kick rebounds from the goalpost, crossbar or goalkeeper

 

(bolded for emphasis)

 

So how come the Premier League get to opt out?  Is there a source that states that they are not using it for the above?  EDIT: BBC News said so

[deerokus]

I thought VAR was supposed to just be for red cards, penalties and offside. Now it keeps getting expanded to more and more minutiae and the referees are becoming reliant on it to decide everything that can possibly happen in a game for them, and they're changing basic rules of the game to accommodate its shortcomings as with handball and this new version of the goalkeeper on the line rule. And it's taking the VAR team five minutes to decide if a penalty is a penalty or not (the Argentina penalty was about as obviously a penalty as you could get) because they're second guessing themselves constantly too. All a bit of a farce really. 

 

Penalties will not only be much more frequent given the broken new handball rule, but will now see players do stutter steps to get the keeper sent off. How the fuck do such significant changes to the basic rules just get brought in without testing of some kind? 

[milko]

I do think there will be an element of this settling down as people get to grips with it though. In this case either by goalies being much more rooted to their line or the officials getting back to a more lenient stance. It's not the same thing at all but when the backpass law came in there was a lot of hilarity and indirect free kicks in the box while the players got used to it, and the offside law being tweaked to not count people not involved in the play led to sneaky goalhanging tactics which are kinda still being worked through.

 

Not to say it isn't pretty stupid right now, just that I do have some believe they'll fix it sooner or later. The increasing use of tech doesn't really gel well with a sport that has so much room for 'intent' and interpretation.

[Plissken]

The officials can’t adopt a more lenient stance if VAR makes it a black and white issue.

[Adrock]

The rules will change to suit VAR if it doesn't work, encroachment from a keeper is in the rules so it needs to be upheld.

 

If it's found to be unpopular then the rule should be reworked or removed.

[deerokus]

Keepers can't get any more rooted to their line as there is no way to build up momentum to make the save. It's already so far in the taker's favour!

 

Meanwhile, Mikael Lustig has left Celtic. Was definitely his time, but man, a real end of an era, you don't get players who weren't brought through the youth system spending nearly 8 years at a club often any more. Just a really good servant. The last one of the team who beat Barcelona to leave. 

[Adrock]

5 minutes ago, deerokus said:

Keepers can't get any more rooted to their line as there is no way to build up momentum to make the save. It's already so far in the taker's favour!

 

Which is exactly why the rule will end up changing if VAR is seen to be having a negative impact on the game.

 

I personally think the idea the keeper must stay on the line until the player kicks it is bullshit.

 

I'd much rather allow the keeper to move once the player has begun their run up. That would definitely have some unintended consequences though.

[milko]

34 minutes ago, Plissken said:

The officials can’t adopt a more lenient stance if VAR makes it a black and white issue.

 

they can not refer it unless it's an obvious one, though.

 

We should have penalties like the Americans tried out, ice hockey style.

[spork]

23 minutes ago, Adrock said:

 

I'd much rather allow the keeper to move once the player has begun their run up. That would definitely have some unintended consequences though.

 

Imagine the next Pogba penalty where the keeper kicks the ball away before he's finished his run up.

[Tourist]

Just got tickets for Olympics women's football second round and quarter-finals. (Should I have started a 2020/21 thread to announce that?)

[feltmonkey]

The problem with VAR is that the implementation is terrible. It is supposed to be for correcting clear and obvious errors, but it is being used for 50/50 judgement calls. At the moment it doesn't even feel like it's giving us more correct decisions. 

[Chooch]

Would it have been retaken had it been a goal?  Keepers could use this to their advantage, 3 retaken pens unsettling the striker!  At least until the ref gives the keeper a yellow anyway  

[feltmonkey]

No, if it's a goal it's not retaken. 

[Plissken]

The always excellent Eni Aluko says it best “VAR is supposed to correct clear and obvious errors, not impose perfection.”

[Alexlotl]

3 hours ago, feltmonkey said:

The problem with VAR is that the implementation is terrible. It is supposed to be for correcting clear and obvious errors, but it is being used for 50/50 judgement calls. At the moment it doesn't even feel like it's giving us more correct decisions. 

 

Perhaps they should use the approach they take in cricket, and give each side 2 referrals per half. Although the lack of a guarantee of a dead ball in football makes it trickier.

[bradigor]

On the whole, I thin VAR has done well, but when it does fuck up, like it did the other night, it gets highlighted so much more than any other mistake made, 

 

Without VAR Spurs don't get their moment against City and make it to the European Cup Final, that would havre been unjust as they would have been knocked out by an injury time goal that was offside. 

 

In the league not having VAR had big implications too, such as the Liverpool goal vs West Ham United, that was clearly offside, but missed... could West Ham have taken all 3 points, also when Liverpool had a goal ruled out against Arsenal that was clearly onside. That game ended up as a draw, could have been two extra points for Liverpool. 

 

It also had an effect on the relegation battle. It certainly has its uses, but needs time. 

 

Unfortunately I think we have to put up with the teething problems, learn and adapt as needed. I am hearing many say we should now be getting rid of VAR, which would be a huge mistake, it needs to be implemented better for sure and maybe they should have kept some of the other rule changes (the new handball for example) until the following season, as officials have had more time with VAR first. 

[Yobo Ahoy]

Ironically one of the counter-arguments for introducing VAR was it would take the drama and talking points out of the game. 

[glb]

Only experienced VAR once in a stadium (Champions League) and thoughts based on that is the communication within the stadium used needs to be clear. It was muddled that night. Only two reviews but created a weird lull, not helped because one was communicated, one wasn't, and even with the one that was announced there was no indication as to what was being reviewed. On TV its no different to reviews in other sports and tolerable because you can see and hear what is happening, but really needs some clarity and consistency with stadium announcements to appease the live crowd. It will take time to adapt but clarity will be key to getting the majority onside quicker.

 

Other sports have adapted well to the process. Like the NFL route where the lead official will be miked up to explain a decision over the stadium PA after a review. Sure Mike Dean would love such a spotlight.

[milko]

the PL are looking into that - it's not helped by two teams (Man Utd and Liverpool) not having big screens (yet) as that's the obvious method. Obviously the PA announcer is another likely method, it's all about making sure the comms are accurate and prompt.

[bradigor]

7 minutes ago, milko said:

the PL are looking into that - it's not helped by two teams (Man Utd and Liverpool) not having big screens (yet) as that's the obvious method. Obviously the PA announcer is another likely method, it's all about making sure the comms are accurate and prompt.

 

They could use the scoreboards or even the digital advertising hoardings. 

[milko]

yep. The possibility has been explored, I think they'll not use the hoardings (or at least, the PL have gone very quiet on that project, we were working on it for a bit last year to explore how it might work). I don't think even the scoreboards at those two grounds are ideal for that sort of thing, it wasn't all that long ago the Old Trafford one was still using floppy disks for stuff. I'm not particularly au fait with either though, could be wrong. But even then, it's gonna be the big screens everywhere else so it'll be some sort of faff to do it differently in two grounds. I think they'll both end up with some sort of screen in the next couple of years - probably by each being told the other one's doing it and not wanting to be left behind.

[Plissken]

https://www.burnleyfootballclub.com/news/2019/june/var-in-focus-at-turf-moor/

 

This might help. Brief announcement on how VAR will be used in the stadium.

 

 

 

 

[The Fox]

Can anyone explain to me how Aidy fucking Boothroyd ended up getting the U21s gig? What a shambles.

[glb]

0-0 after 75 minutes in a must-win game to a 4-2 defeat by FT is spectacularly shite, even by England’s standards.

 

Romania’s 4th was a belter.

[Naysonymous]

I’ve never seen so many individual errors leading to comedy goals as England U21s managed this week, and I support Aston Villa. 

[Charliemouse]

13 hours ago, The Fox said:

Can anyone explain to me how Aidy fucking Boothroyd ended up getting the U21s gig? What a shambles.

The two worst games of football I have ever had the misfortune to witness live were both against Watford,while Boothroyd was their manager.

 

The guy is a fucking coach from the dark ages of football and perhaps the only man who can make Sam Allardyce look like a progressive and exciting manager.

[ryodi]

Not a fan of penalties being given because the player miskicked and hit a player who was running towards her. 

[glb]

On 21/06/2019 at 16:19, milko said:

the PL are looking into that - it's not helped by two teams (Man Utd and Liverpool) not having big screens (yet) as that's the obvious method. Obviously the PA announcer is another likely method, it's all about making sure the comms are accurate and prompt.

 

VAR incidents themselves wouldn't be shown on screens, right? Rather the screen used to say 'VAR Check Pending' (or similar) 

 

Hopefully a month or so of constant usage will sort out the communications issues. And do think most of the rallying against VAR will largely get dissipate soon enough but early stages of the new season will see coverage dominated by its usage. Process was fine during the 2018 World Cup, but this WWC seems to have shown up some inconsistencies. All a learning process, just frustrating for the teams that are affected during a settling in period (unless it's Everton)

 

Anyway, here's some headlines for sale, £2.70 a pop:

 

VAR-dy Party (when Jamie scores a VAR-assisted penalty)

A Bridge Too VAR (Lampard's home debut ruined by a late VAR decision)

VAR for the Course (when a team benefits from VAR for the third game on the bounce)

VAR-City Blues (Man City get stung by VAR again)

Stick It Up Yer VARse (Sean Dyche reacts)

 

Etc

[deerokus]

Fuck off, Arsenal. £15m offer for Tierney is derisory. 

[the_debaser]

Even at £40m he'd be good value.