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Gaming grudges


joemul
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Perhaps not a grudge, but I just feel nothing for the Spectrum. I didn't have one growing up. I had an Acorn Electron and some of my friends had C64's, but I never even saw a Spectrum so they mean nothing to me. In later years I became aware that British people my age are supposed to have a loving fondness for the Spectrum. Retro Gamer magazine filled half their pages with Spectrum material in their early years, and I just had to skip the pages because those ugly graphics meant nothing to me.

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Seconding the button layout thing. Whilst it is true that Nintendo label YX BA on the SNES onwards and MS label XY AB, there's something massively counter intuitive on the Switch. The biggest problem I had with Zelda was that every time I needed to do anything I had to look down at the controller. I still can't remember as I type this which is X and which is A on switch, and its weird because I never had that issue on SNES

 

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As a lifelong player of (and perpetually attempting to improve my skills at) Guitar Freaks and Drummania, I hate Guitar Hero and Rock Band. That fad has passed thankfully, but for a while people were making out like the superior (and original) Bemani game series didn't get there first.

 

Fair enough, it's Konami's own fault for not releasing those games in the west - but that doesn't change the fact that Harmonix or whoever made that lowest-common-denominator watered down pish were stealing the idea.

 

Also, I have a grudge against people who forget about Demon's Souls. Dark Souls was NOT THE FIRST GAME.

 

 

 

 

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I’ve always had a grudge against Crash Team Racing. Never played the original on the PS1, and lots of people say that its better, or as good as Mario Kart.

 

I thought these people were idiots.

 

I recently bought the remake, and initially dismissed it as ‘just another kart racer’, but the more time I spend with it, the more I’m enjoying it. It may not be as good as Mario kart 8…. But its pretty damn close.

 

I’m sorry Crash, forgive me.

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I hated the PS2 for literally years. I had a Japanese DC and I loved the hell out of it. I thought the PS2 was an ugly, less powerful shit looking piece of trash and FUCK SONY. 

Eventually I got over myself and had many good times with the PS2 because it had an absolutely amazing fucking catalogue of games and those kinds of grudges are for losers but they are weird and I was definitely affected.


 

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1 hour ago, Broker said:

 

I still don't get this. If the playstation way is bad, then is the Xbox way half bad and the Wii U Pro Controller is the only good one ever?

The left stick should always be above the dpad. It's debatable whether the right stick is better above or below, but from using Xbox, Wii u Pro, and Switch Pro, I definitely prefer them offset. I think because for the most part the controller is used with left stick and buttons, so those need to be in the most comfortable positions.

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1 hour ago, SqueakyG said:

Perhaps not a grudge, but I just feel nothing for the Spectrum. I didn't have one growing up. I had an Acorn Electron and some of my friends had C64's, but I never even saw a Spectrum so they mean nothing to me. In later years I became aware that British people my age are supposed to have a loving fondness for the Spectrum. Retro Gamer magazine filled half their pages with Spectrum material in their early years, and I just had to skip the pages because those ugly graphics meant nothing to me.

 

I wonder if there's a bit of the old British rooting for the (British) underdog going on here. Plucky Brit contender takes on the US and Japanese with a couple of computers that are a) a bit crap and b) really eccentric and c) you even have to build yourself, initially; and then goes on to kickstart a whole new industry of bedroom coders just ripe for ruthless exploitation by public-school-educated 'entrepreneurs' in time-honoured tradition.

 

I mean, we knew the graphics and sound were shit; but some of the games were frankly amazing in spite of this.

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15 minutes ago, smac said:

 

I wonder if there's a bit of the old British rooting for the (British) underdog going on here. Plucky Brit contender takes on the US and Japanese with a couple of computers that are a) a bit crap and b) really eccentric and c) you even have to build yourself, initially; and then goes on to kickstart a whole new industry of bedroom coders just ripe for ruthless exploitation by public-school-educated 'entrepreneurs' in time-honoured tradition.

 

I mean, we knew the graphics and sound were shit; but some of the games were frankly amazing in spite of this.

 

I don't think it's rooting for the underdog, for a lot of people the Spectrum was an affordable and popular gaming machine. We used to swap games at school, most people I know had one, and there was very little alternative. The C64 was more expensive, and the BBC etc were waaay more expensive. It was ubiquitous in my school. I suspect it's an age thing. 

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38 minutes ago, cohen205 said:

I’ve always had a grudge against Crash Team Racing. Never played the original on the PS1, and lots of people say that its better, or as good as Mario Kart.

 

I thought these people were idiots.

 

I recently bought the remake, and initially dismissed it as ‘just another kart racer’, but the more time I spend with it, the more I’m enjoying it. It may not be as good as Mario kart 8…. But its pretty damn close.

 

I’m sorry Crash, forgive me.

 

I was the same, and extended it to any franchise that I felt Sony were trying to push as a Nintendo killer. I'm over it now though I think. 

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No, I don't mean back then, necessarily - at the time, you bought what you could afford, and the BBC B was for rich bastards.

 

I mean more in the way we look back on the machines with more or less fondness.

 

3 minutes ago, Vorgot said:

I suspect it's an age thing.

 

Yeah, exactly. I don't think it's rose-tinted spectacles so much (although I suspect a lot of the games will be impenetrable these days), as nostalgia for a machine that was flawed, but still gave us a lot of entertainment.

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Still haven't forgiven Game for buying Gamestation, and doing such a terrible job of it that they ended up destroying all their retro stock (unforgivable!) :angry: and then closing all the Gamestation branches.

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2 hours ago, Hylian said:

The left stick should always be above the dpad. It's debatable whether the right stick is better above or below, but from using Xbox, Wii u Pro, and Switch Pro, I definitely prefer them offset. I think because for the most part the controller is used with left stick and buttons, so those need to be in the most comfortable positions.

 

What year are you playing games in? Most games require both sticks in modern games.

 

Anyway, it literally makes no difference to anyone outside of a small group of Xbox fans who want something to complain about. There's no right or wrong in random stick placement on controllers where all four positions where there might be a stick need to be comfortable to reach. The idea what some wonky bullshit is objectively "right" because of who happened to invent it is ridiculous.

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1 hour ago, Broker said:

Anyway, it literally makes no difference to anyone outside of a small group of Xbox fans who want something to complain about. There's no right or wrong in random stick placement on controllers where all four positions where there might be a stick need to be comfortable to reach. The idea what some wonky bullshit is objectively "right" because of who happened to invent it is ridiculous.

Great argument dude. Literally makes no sense at all.

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20 minutes ago, Hylian said:

Great argument dude. Literally makes no sense at all.

 

It's pretty simple. Games require a mixture of both sticks, the d-pad and the face buttons. As such, the controllers are designed to be comfortable to hold whichever of those configurations you're using. Beyond that, if the positions of the sticks on a playstation controller were wrong, your right hand would be just as uncomfortable any time you play any Xbox that requires both sticks, and any Xbox game that used the d-pad and right stick would have objectively bad controls.

 

What you're stating is your entirely subjective preference. The playstation sticks aren't "wrong", you just prefer the Xbox ones. I like having my thumbs in the same position, so the playstation setup, or ideally a setup like the Wii U Pro Controller, is my favourite. You prefer to have your thumbs wonky. That's fine, but the idea that wonky is just better or more comfortable universally is silly, which is why I disagreed with your post stating that. 

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1 minute ago, Broker said:

 

if the positions of the sticks on a playstation controller were wrong, your right hand would be just as uncomfortable any time you play any Xbox that requires both sticks, and any Xbox game that used the d-pad and right stick would have objectively bad controls.

 

I too have always thought this.

 

With shooters (this genre seems to be where the argument has been made most often), the right stick is where you do all your aiming. Horizontal tracking, pin-point and super reactive adjustments etc.

 

If that stick position is good enough for all that, it’s surely fine on the other side, where you’re controlling the much more imprecise character movement.

 

Could never understand the ‘wrong’ argument.

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51 minutes ago, Broker said:

 

I assume they put them in what their designers consider to be the best position.

 

That's definitely the main reason. But the pad layout is also part of Sony's brand, almost as much as the Square-Circle-Triangle-X symbols are. Even if we could somehow objectively prove that the Xbox analogue stick position is better for precision/comfort/long-term wrist health, for Sony to adopt it would represent a loss of one of their distinctive elements, and would be viewed as capitulating to Microsoft.

 

I wonder if the reaction to the PS3 boomerang controller affected Sony's willingness to make radical changes to their pads?

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I guess I always think of the offset sticks as one of those things that was done just so that company's version looked a bit different. Kinda the reason the Playstation has two sticks in the first place, to make it twice as good as an N64 analogue controller.

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So the PlayStation designers have a very considered view of what the perfect pad should be like, but the Xbox team just wanted it to look a bit different...right.

 

Look, I own a PlayStation 4 and not an Xbox One. I use the PS4 pad all the time and it's fine. It's just clearly not as good a design and not as comfortable as the Xbox/Nintendo pad. Like @Nick R says, they probably consider themselves a bit stuck now. It is part of the brand. And yeah, they're probably too scared to change (it's hardly broken and most gamers don't care).

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If the upper corners are generally agreed to be the most comfortable positions for our most-used inputs, it follows that the best pad should have switchable sections to provide that for all games. You occasionally see a switchable left side, but I've never seen a pad with both.

 

Random thing: I always thought I'd love the GamePad's layout until I used one for Breath of the Wild, but I found the buttons harder to access below the stick because thumbs articulate more in the opposite direction. I think that's why lots of people defend the MS offset with its higher left stick, since your thumb rarely moves between that and the d-pad, whereas your right thumb hops more frequently.

 

I prefer symmetry for games where my thumbs are on the sticks most of the time (with the buttons above), but it took Sony until the DS4 to match their original Dual Analog for me. I found the handles on the other DSes too short.

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Are we arguing about the best stick position on a pad? Never change RLLMUK. (It's the Xbox style layout BTW) 

 

I've never had a grudge as such as I've enjoyed the output on all platforms although I've not had a PS4 this gen as not many of the exclusive titles appeal although that VR stuff looks cool. 

I guess my only grudge is against the PC as I don't know all the DOS prompts to make a game run. 

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2 minutes ago, Fletch said:

Are we arguing about the best stick position on a pad? Never change RLLMUK. (It's the Xbox style layout BTW) 

Yes. The world might be going to shit around us, but we'll continue to focus on the things that matter.

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I had a grudge against Sega as a kid (I owned NES and SNES). I remember having heated arguments with a girl at school (that I secretly fancied) over who was the best mascot, Mario or Sonic? We would even make up stories about one Company buying out the other.

 

I was a big PS fan in the early noughties and hated the Xbox brand. I couldn't stand the PS3 threads in here and other forums for all the trolling and memes. I eventually came around though and the 360 became one of my fave consoles (and my most played that gen). 

 

These days I just cant be bothered with it all. I end up buying all the consoles anyway!

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