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Thor 4: Love and Thunder - 2022


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Never seen Black Panther, but it clearly has some fans. It beat out the competition in Rolling Stone's recent countdown of the greatest Superhero movies of alltime (interesting that Alan Sepinwall participated in the culling, thought he just did TV reviews):

 

https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-lists/greatest-superhero-movies-of-all-time-1367814/

 

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59 minutes ago, Benny said:

Jesus Christ, that list is awful - some of the picks, and the entirety of the ordering.

 

And Robocop is too good to be anywhere near it.


It’s almost as though they chose the ordering for clicks.

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Just saw this earlier. I really enjoyed it for what it was. Thought tit was colourful fun overall but I can see how some might bounce off it. It is a bit odd tonally speaking. Loved the bit

Spoiler

on the shadow planet. Thought that looked great. 

 

It’s definitely no Ragnarok or GOTG1 but it’s not GOTG2 and also much preferred it to Dr Strange MoM which I found dull as dishwater. 
 

Perhaps a little too jokey but I found most of it pretty funny…

Spoiler

even Russell Crowe’s Zeus.

Not seen Hemsworth in anything else but I think be pulls this off pretty well and has certainly made Thor his own. 
 

Having said all of that, it does feel like Waititi is phoning it in a bit and it was nice watching on a massive big screen (and great a/c) for the first time in ages so that might have swayed me a bit. 

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3 hours ago, Benny said:

I don't think that's true at all. He consistently championed animation on their previous show, particularly Ghibli films and suchlike, and films like The Red Turtle. So that alone deserves some credit. It depends on your definition of a terrible film.

 


People with terrible taste can enjoy some good films. At no point did I say or suggest that every film he likes is automatically bad. But for a guy whose job is recommending movies he’s got so many spectacularly bad takes that I don’t put any stock in his opinions. 
 

I also think that people are looking for very different things out of movies and go into them with different expectations. I’ve long since stopped expecting Marvel movies to be consistent in terms of character behaviour, motivations or growth across different writers and directors. Years of reading comics taught me that when something is designed to go on forever you just don’t get that. Every story you enjoy is likely to get undone or contradicted or retconned at some point. I generally just watch each one as a separate piece of media and see how I feel about them. 

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Kermode really isn't all that pretentious at all, and to his eternal credit, he views animation as a medium, not a genre, unlike 99.9% of film crirics.

 

A film critic is going to have preferences, if yours don't align then you may not want to listen to that critic. 

 

For example, Kermode's take on Attack The Block annoyed me (and Joe Cornish) because he seemed to think it'd be more like Shaun of the Dead, but he had a forthright discussion with Joe about it (and in fairness to Kermode the trailer really did sell it that way.) Even thought it annoyed me at the time, I think he was actually saying it was missing something, and given time, I think he was correct. The film lacks something overall.

 

Kermode is one of the good guys, for me.

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As for Marvel movies, they are often average, recent ones have been rather dull and quite patchy (No Way Home).

 

Waititi presumably does something different, at least, even if, for me, he's just Jermaine Clement without the heart.

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8 hours ago, Festoon said:

As for Marvel movies, they are often average, recent ones have been rather dull and quite patchy (No Way Home).

 

Waititi presumably does something different, at least, even if, for me, he's just Jermaine Clement without the heart.


Totally agree. There’s enough po faced, ‘serious business’ in the MCU to leave room for something a bit lighter.
 

This felt like an upmarket Flash Gordon at times. Had a real Saturday morning cartoon feel to it too. Yet I can see why it won’t  work for many, especially knowing that Waititi can be very good at balancing comedy with serious stuff (Jojo and Hunt for Wilderpeople spring to mind and even Ragnarok). I guess the space Viking theme makes it a little trickier to pull off!

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2 hours ago, El Geet said:


Totally agree. There’s enough po faced, ‘serious business’ in the MCU to leave room for something a bit lighter.
 

This felt like an upmarket Flash Gordon at times. Had a real Saturday morning cartoon feel to it too. Yet I can see why it won’t  work for many, especially knowing that Waititi can be very good at balancing comedy with serious stuff (Jojo and Hunt for Wilderpeople spring to mind and even Ragnarok). I guess the space Viking theme makes it a little trickier to pull off!

Even the most serious of Marvel films have plenty of humour, this was just all silly jokes and nothing else.

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10 hours ago, Festoon said:

Kermode really isn't all that pretentious at all, and to his eternal credit, he views animation as a medium, not a genre, unlike 99.9% of film crirics.

 

A film critic is going to have preferences, if yours don't align then you may not want to listen to that critic. 

 

For example, Kermode's take on Attack The Block annoyed me (and Joe Cornish) because he seemed to think it'd be more like Shaun of the Dead, but he had a forthright discussion with Joe about it (and in fairness to Kermode the trailer really did sell it that way.) Even thought it annoyed me at the time, I think he was actually saying it was missing something, and given time, I think he was correct. The film lacks something overall.

 

Kermode is one of the good guys, for me.

 

He's brilliant tbf and pointed me towards things other film podcasts don't even touch on half the time. But even the ones you like and respect can occasionally not align with your own feelings on a film. I have Kermode one one side hating this, people at Empire saying they loved it and I'm just sat bang in the middle shrugging.

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5 minutes ago, Stigweard said:

 

He's brilliant tbf and pointed me towards things other film podcasts don't even touch on half the time. But even the ones you like and respect can occasionally not align with your own feelings on a film. I have Kermode one one side hating this, people at Empire saying they loved it and I'm just sat bang in the middle shrugging.

 

Empire are pretty ubtrustworthy when it comes to Marvel stuff, in my opinion. They're very forgiving of weaker entries as they really bought into the 'continuing series of films' idea.

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33 minutes ago, Festoon said:

 

Empire are pretty ubtrustworthy when it comes to Marvel stuff, in my opinion. They're very forgiving of weaker entries as they really bought into the 'continuing series of films' idea.

 

This is true. Sometimes you have to see who the reviewer is too because there's certain people in their team who are more forgiving than others. Ben Travis reviewed this one and on the post screening podcast he says he almost gave it a 5 star review, which seems crazy to me. 

 

They did mention in that podcast about how this did have some great moments in it for kids, which I think's very true, I know my daughter loved it. 

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When I first saw Thor Ragnarok, I posted here that even though I mostly found its jokes funny, it perhaps overdid the relentless pace of its jokes.

 

Looking at a lot of the most negative reviews of Love and Thunder, it feels like even some people who enjoyed Ragnarok found that to be a problem with the new film. I've seen a few comments along the lines of "when everything's trying to be funny, none of it is."

 

Me, I mostly found it funny. (If not as laugh-out-loud funny as the best jokes in the MCU and Waititi's previous films.) I understand why people complain that since Ragnarok, Thor has become more and more of a buffoon, but just as I never got tired of seeing Robert Downey Jr play Tony Stark, I still like seeing Hemsworth playing this character.

 

And the more serious aspects of the story worked for me as well. It wasn't anywhere near the horrible clash of tones that I'd been expecting from some of the negative comments I'd seen.

 

Well, having said that, there was one bit where I was bothered by a serious threat being undermined by a joke:

Spoiler

Sif's one and only scene, dying on the battlefield - er, I mean, in the aftermath of a battle.

 

Waititi just does not give a fuck about her or the Warriors Three, does he? :lol: And there was me thinking that her appearance in Loki might be a sign that she'd be back to bigger things in the MCU... 

 

 

Another joke that made fun of previous MCU events, which I liked but some might see as Undermining The Stakes - it was something like:

Spoiler

"Half our warriors are dead!"

"It's always half!"

 

 

 

I liked Christian Bale's performance but I'm really not sure about Russell Crowe's. :blink2:

 

Spoiler

Maybe I've just been playing too much Hades to accept any other version of Zeus?

 

 

 

One line made me wonder if an earlier version of the film might have been intended to stick closer to the way the story was done in the comics:

Spoiler

When Jane becomes Thor in the comics, it happens over a long period of time. It becomes a major plot element that every time she lifts the hammer and transforms, the magic washes all the chemotherapy drugs out of her system.

 

In the film, there's one comment in the New Asgard hospital scene that seems to allude to that idea. But it didn't really fit with the way it had been depicted in the film, which felt like she'd only transformed a couple of times over a few days. In the film, it implies that some remnant of her transformation was stopping the drugs from working, which isn't quite the same. It felt to me as if that line was a leftover from a previous draft that had stuck closer to the comics version.

 

 

Mid-credits:

 

Spoiler

Between Eternals, Multiverse of Madness, and this, my score for recognising the actors introduced in post-credit cameos is now zero out of three!

 

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2 hours ago, Nick R said:

When I first saw Thor Ragnarok, I posted here that even though I mostly found its jokes funny, it perhaps overdid the relentless pace of its jokes.

 

Looking at a lot of the most negative reviews of Love and Thunder, it feels like even some people who enjoyed Ragnarok found that to be a problem with the new film. I've seen a few comments along the lines of "when everything's trying to be funny, none of it is."

 

Me, I mostly found it funny. (If not as laugh-out-loud funny as the best jokes in the MCU and Waititi's previous films.) I understand why people complain that since Ragnarok, Thor has become more and more of a buffoon, but just as I never got tired of seeing Robert Downey Jr play Tony Stark, I still like seeing Hemsworth playing this character.

 

And the more serious aspects of the story worked for me as well. It wasn't anywhere near the horrible clash of tones that I'd been expecting from some of the negative comments I'd seen.

 

Well, having said that, there was one bit where I was bothered by a serious threat being undermined by a joke:

  Hide contents

Sif's one and only scene, dying on the battlefield - er, I mean, in the aftermath of a battle.

 

Waititi just does not give a fuck about her or the Warriors Three, does he? :lol: And there was me thinking that her appearance in Loki might be a sign that she'd be back to bigger things in the MCU... 

 

 

Another joke that made fun of previous MCU events, which I liked but some might see as Undermining The Stakes - it was something like:

  Hide contents

"Half our warriors are dead!"

"It's always half!"

 

 

 

I liked Christian Bale's performance but I'm really not sure about Russell Crowe's. :blink2:

 

  Hide contents

Maybe I've just been playing too much Hades to accept any other version of Zeus?

 

 

 

One line made me wonder if an earlier version of the film might have been intended to stick closer to the way the story was done in the comics:

  Hide contents

When Jane becomes Thor in the comics, it happens over a long period of time. It becomes a major plot element that every time she lifts the hammer and transforms, the magic washes all the chemotherapy drugs out of her system.

 

In the film, there's one comment in the New Asgard hospital scene that seems to allude to that idea. But it didn't really fit with the way it had been depicted in the film, which felt like she'd only transformed a couple of times over a few days. In the film, it implies that some remnant of her transformation was stopping the drugs from working, which isn't quite the same. It felt to me as if that line was a leftover from a previous draft that had stuck closer to the comics version.

 

 

Mid-credits:

 

  Hide contents

Between Eternals, Multiverse of Madness, and this, my score for recognising the actors introduced in post-credit cameos is now zero out of three!

 

Spoiler

Think you must have missed:

Sif training someone (Axl?) at the end, on the beach. 

 

I thought the film was ok, if totally unnecessary. One of the big problems with this phase is the lack of Avengers movies.

 

Having checkpoint events that bring the characters together and give them motivation and purpose is very important, moving them one step closer to the goal each time.

 

Marvel have misstepped big time by making the big bad an event (multiversal collapse) rather than a villain, and by splintering the core story across too many TV shows, as well as movies. 

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58 minutes ago, Treble said:
  Reveal hidden contents

Think you must have missed:

Sif training someone (Axl?) at the end, on the beach. 

 

I thought the film was ok, if totally unnecessary. One of the big problems with this phase is the lack of Avengers movies.

 

Having checkpoint events that bring the characters together and give them motivation and purpose is very important, moving them one step closer to the goal each time.

 

Marvel have misstepped big time by making the big bad an event (multiversal collapse) rather than a villain, and by splintering the core story across too many TV shows, as well as movies. 

 

The multiversal collapse from Loki hasn't had an impact really. Dr. Strange MoM doesn't depend upon it. The dimension stuff in No Way Home is as a result of a spell. Neither does Love and Thunder depend upon it particularly.

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18 hours ago, MansizeRooster said:

Just watched this. Thought it was really fun. The goats were excellent.

Feel exactly same no idea why people are unhappy a film is funny. 

 

The goats never got old. And Zeus's hallo peeps accent killed me. 

Mid credits 

Spoiler

Roy fucking Kent.  He's everywhere. 

 

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Well I fucking loved this, tone was all over the place but I don't care. Found it hilarious, looked lovely and had a bitchin' Guns N Roses soundtrack. Bale was awesome and creepy as fuck, loved Portman being back. Plus those fucking goats slayed me every single time. 

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1 hour ago, Azrael said:

Well I fucking loved this, tone was all over the place but I don't care. Found it hilarious, looked lovely and had a bitchin' Guns N Roses soundtrack. Bale was awesome and creepy as fuck, loved Portman being back. Plus those fucking goats slayed me every single time. 

Almost exactly my thoughts on it.

 

It has some bits I loved and some bits I found meh. A lot of laugh out loud funny bits as well, my favourite being

Spoiler

the goats crashing into the planet

 I enjoyed it overall, though. As did my kids. My missus pretty much hated it because she found it too cartoony and campy, which is why I liked it. It was like a proper old school superhero film.

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On 11/07/2022 at 21:00, Festoon said:

 

The multiversal collapse from Loki hasn't had an impact really. Dr. Strange MoM doesn't depend upon it. The dimension stuff in No Way Home is as a result of a spell. Neither does Love and Thunder depend upon it particularly.

 

It's been confirmed by Kevin Feige that the No Way Home spell failing was a direct result of what happened in Loki.

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