Thor 4: Love and Thunder - 2022

[Festoon]

56 minutes ago, monkeydog said:

 

I thought JoJo Rabbit was great. 

 

I heard people say it, but I swear I've seen a different film.

[Mogster]

I adored JoJo Rabbit, and Ragnarok is up there with the best of the MCU for me. This though... 

 

I didn't dislike it, and enjoyed some moments, but it was complete fluff from beginning to end. Some of the jokes made me chuckle, but most didn't land. Some of the action looked cool, but lacked any feeling of weight or stakes. The whole film felt like that to be honest, and the handful of scenes that did try and add that stuff felt jarring as a result.

 

I think Jane's Thor was completely wasted here too, and that's a massive shame. When she became Thor in the comics, a big deal was made that she was the Thor. She wasn't a sidekick, or indeed "Lady Thor", but Thor. The film pays some lip service to that, but can't get away from the fact that there were obviously two Thors in play and the original was very much the focus. Jane's story could easily have been used as the basis for her own movie, and it's a real shame we got this instead.

[Clipper]

I enjoyed this but it wasn't as good as Ragnarok. I am generally meh about MCU films as they are, to me, for the most part bland and textureless action explosions with a thin plot attached. I think of them as decent 3/5 superhero things - if you want to watch some superhero stuff just stick on an MCU film and there you go. The odd one sticks its head over the parapet, usually due to the director, and Waititi's Thor films are probably the best of these.

 

To me Ragnarok was a director pushing and trying to get irreverent moments and laughs in and worked brilliantly by almost lampooning the whole concept of superhero movies. When that film was successful they asked him to do it again and probably gave him more latitude and he just threw everything at the screen. It is utterly absurdist in many ways with skits and ideas thrown around willynilly - It reminds me of two things in cinema 

 

1) Monty Python films where we went from Monty Python and the Holy Grail (pretty much genius) and Monty Python's MEaning of Life (A collection of skits that chucks everything at the audience and sees what sticks).

2) Verhoeven. Initially he made films like Robocop which subverted action movies a bit. When that worked he made Total Recall and really subverted the whole genre beautifully and hilariously making Arnold Schwarzenegger braindead by the end in a fantasy world. Then Starship Troopers where he just stopped even trying to hide his disdain for Hollywood and America before just churning out hot messes like Showgirls and Hollow Man because he just did what he wanted

[Jammy]

This was…hit and miss. Struck me that they thought Ragnarok worked so well that they could just replicate the process without tightening anything up, and this would turn out fine too. The screaming goats started out funny, by the middle I was thinking “Are they persevering with this gag ?”, and by the end I was laughing at it again because it’d gone full circle. But the film overall is not quite as funny as it thinks it is.

[SeanR]

I liked it. Make of that what you will…

[macosx]

I hope he never gets near another Marvel movie. Tone is just ridiculous 

[Protocol Penguin]

Second watch, courtesy of Disney+: Oh man, it’s terrible. Genuinely can’t believe they put the film out for release in the state it arrived at. Almost feels like some key members of the creative team held the audience in absolute contempt.

[Hanzo the Razor]

On 20/09/2022 at 13:17, Clipper said:

Then Starship Troopers where he just stopped even trying to hide his disdain for Hollywood and America before just churning out hot messes like Showgirls and Hollow Man because he just did what he wanted

 

Showgirls was released in 1995. Starship Troopers in 1997. Hollow Man was 2000.

[Clipper]

I know , such a hot mess they defied chronology.

 

verhoeven doesn’t abide by such dull concepts as linear time

[Bacon Horsemeat]

Just got round to seeing this. Probably the weakest Marvel movie of the lot, the only two great parts were

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

and

 

[teddymeow]

"Up & down"

 

"Tonally messy"

 

"Hit & miss"

 

"It passed the time"

 

There's some good stuff in this. Bale steals every scene he's in. The goats amused. 

 

My son enjoyed it.

 

It reminded me that I quite like GnR in my teenage years.

 

I'm happy if Waititi doesn't do anymore MCU.

[Darwock]

He’s doing Star Wars next

 

Spoiler

or so he says, but we all know how that goes

 

[Festoon]

3 hours ago, Darwock said:

He’s doing Star Wars next

 

  Hide contents

or so he says, but we all know how that goes

 

 

Lol. What a disaster that would be.

[Hanzo the Razor]

4 hours ago, Darwock said:

He’s doing Star Wars next

  Hide contents

 

 

 

[monkeydog]

He's already directed an episode of Mandalorian.  He didn't write it though.

[Stig]

It was one of the best episodes of season 1 too. This film was his only poor film imo and I don't think his heart was in it at all. I'd prefer him to see him go back to do some smaller more personal films again.

[Festoon]

12 minutes ago, Stigweard said:

It was one of the best episodes of season 1 too. This film was his only poor film imo and I don't think his heart was in it at all. I'd prefer him to see him go back to do some smaller more personal films again.

 

Whereas I though Jo Jo and Ragnarok shared similar problems, in increasing order of severity.

[drmick]

16 hours ago, monkeydog said:

He's already directed an episode of Mandalorian.  He didn't write it though.

 

I think this might be key: let him direct others' writing. And potentially let him write for somebody else to direct. But maybe don't let him write and direct material which is considered IP or licensed.

[Festoon]

8 hours ago, drmick said:

 

I think this might be key: let him direct others' writing. And potentially let him write for somebody else to direct. But maybe don't let him write and direct material which is considered IP or licensed.

 

Agreed. Also, don't let him direct.

[Hanzo the Razor]

1 hour ago, Festoon said:

 

Agreed. Also, don't let him direct.

 

Or exist.

[Stig]

Ridiculous 🙄

[Festoon]

19 minutes ago, Stigweard said:

Ridiculous 🙄

 

Agreed. He can exist.

[ChewMagma]

This was an absolute mess really wasn't it? Feel like the MCU is done now at least until they introduce the X-men. For most non-comics people who aren't keen to watch the same stories told over and over with minor variations and even more minor characters, Endgame was a perfectly acceptable point to draw a line under it all.

[ChewMagma]

Black Widow was enjoyable for an hour or so, but ultimately her story was finished already. Hawkeye had its moments but like every single Marvel show was unnecessarily bloated. Jessica Jones Season 1 remains the only Marvel TV show I would ever recommend to anyone.

[ChewMagma]

When Roy Kent popped up in the post credits, that was definitely a final nail in the coffin moment for me.

 

I really think only the X-Men would have the draw now to get people really excited about it all again (like I'm sure there are enough people into it to still make it all viable, but maybe not to that cultural phenomenon level).

[Festoon]

1 hour ago, ChewMagma said:

This was an absolute mess really wasn't it? Feel like the MCU is done now at least until they introduce the X-men. For most non-comics people who aren't keen to watch the same stories told over and over with minor variations and even more minor characters, Endgame was a perfectly acceptable point to draw a line under it all.

 

They aren't brave with certain things, nearly every male character being a sarcastic quippy bloke, for one.

[ChewMagma]

13 minutes ago, Festoon said:

 

They aren't brave with certain things, nearly every male character being a sarcastic quippy bloke, for one.

 

Eh?

[Festoon]

9 minutes ago, ChewMagma said:

 

Eh?

 

Marvel. They keep their heros pretty alike as characters (Tony Stark, Dr. Strange, Ant Man, Spiderman, Loki, etc.) - quippy, sarcastic guys and it contributes massively to the samyiness of the films.

 

The X-Men will be the same.

[ChewMagma]

Oh yeah right. Well it isn't going to be tonally different, but people will get excited because it is the X-Men regardless. They practically invented the concept of the sarcastic, quippy superhero but with the added teen angst that people crave.

 

No one outside of comic nerds gives a shit about all this multiverse bollocks.

[Nick R]

1 hour ago, Festoon said:

Marvel. They keep their heros pretty alike as characters (Tony Stark, Dr. Strange, Ant Man, Spiderman, Loki, etc.) - quippy, sarcastic guys and it contributes massively to the samyiness of the films.

 

I agree that most MCU things have a similar tone to their comedy (the Whedon/Gunn/Black/Waititi films emphasise that side more, whereas a few like Black Panther and Eternals tone it down). But there have been some prominent exceptions where the leading men haven't been that sort of snarky quipper... in which case those lines have been given to supporting characters instead.

 

You're posting this in a Thor thread; even though The Dark World, Ragnarok and L&T were heavier on the comedy, very little of it came from Thor making quips. (It mostly came from his earnest oafishness - or, in Endgame, his fatness, LOL.)

 

Cap and Hawkeye had their deadpan one-liners, but they weren't trying to use snarkiness to be the centre of attention like Stark and Strange.

 

T'Challa and Shang-Chi mostly left the comic relief to Shuri and Katy.

 

The only one of the Eternals who could be described as a quipper was Kumail Nanjiani's character, and he ended up being one of the less prominent characters in that film.