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RANT: Latecomers who enter a franchise late


kamrantaz
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Guest Penguin_Lad
Stupidly nintendo listened and gave the scum what they wanted iw TWW with less dungeons

Well of course they didn't have time to actually put in all the dungeons did they? So it was planned, they just didn't do it in time.

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Search any internet forum, or read any review and you WILL read most people moaning that it ISNT like SOTN in that there are less weapons, exploring and other RPG elements.

Its a return to its action heritage and latecomers dont like it.

So are all people on internet forums and all reviewers "latecomers"? Wouldn't that just be them listening to customer feedback? (assuming for one moment that the folks at Konami are resilient enough to idiocy to read internet forums and that they also read/get all the reviews translated)

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Do you have proof of the bolded bit, or is this just "my perception is the truth" stuff?

Probably closer to the truth would be that the developers vision of how the franchise should evolve does not match his own, which can be said of many gamers who complain about sequels to their favourite games.

The gamer has an idea of how the game should evolve, more of the same, or alter the contols, or less boss battles, more boss battles etc. Find ten people who love the same game and you'd get ten different versions on what they think the sequel should be.

Also kamrantaz seems to want his games all to himself. For some mad reason he seems to think all old gamers have one view and all latecomers another, stupid to say the least.

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Wouldn't that just be them listening to customer feedback?

Now this is an interesting point. Castlevania games are notorious for their failure to sell at retail. Even Symphony of the Night sold poorly yet it's still one of Konami's flagship franchises. If they listened to customer feedback they wouldn't bother making any Castlevania games ever so surely they are just catering to fans of the series rather than what could be a lucrative new more wide-ranging market.

Just a thought.

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If they listened to customer feedback they wouldn't bother making any Castlevania games ever so surely they are just catering to fans of the series rather than what could be a lucrative new more wide-ranging market.

Well, that's what I mean - people who don't buy your games aren't your customers :)

That would be like the people who make those karaoke star shows scrapping them because I think they're shit B)

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What about latecomers who enter a franchise early? They're even worse...

Anyway, to everyone moaning about how unuasable RE's controls are, please explain how your much better control system that would work with the atmospheric fixed and fast-switching camera angles.

And also, I was under the impression that the inventory, auto-aiming and not-quite-being-able-to-see-where-you-are-going stuff was part of the design of the game, being more a game about planning and survival rather than an action game where you show off your skill with the pad.

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And also, I was under the impression that the inventory, auto-aiming and not-quite-being-able-to-see-where-you-are-going stuff was part of the design of the game, being more a game about planning and survival rather than an action game where you show off your skill with the pad.

That design was "fine" the first few times around (the series was new, it was scary, you were willing to forgive it's little flaws and annoyances - see also Tomb Raider), but the basic gameplay isn't evolving - the massive leap in visual quality of the GC remake only served to point out how dated the gameplay design was. There's no depth to the combat, the inventory management is frustrating, illogical (both in the fact that a shotgun is the same size as a small key and with the magic item boxes) and feels like it's been imposed just to get you to to-and-fro more often, but it looks so utterly gorgeous - it just seems mean of them to do that to you.

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And also, I was under the impression that the inventory, auto-aiming and not-quite-being-able-to-see-where-you-are-going stuff was part of the design of the game, being more a game about planning and survival rather than an action game where you show off your skill with the pad.

It doesn't particularly matter if it is part of the design of the game (of which I'm not wholly convinced). Sucky game design is sucky game design, and if it makes that game frustrating to actually play, then it should be replaced with something that isn't shoutably crap.

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Seems people want Resident Evil to be an action game, not the Alone-in-the-Dark-inspired-Survival-Horror that it is and always has been.

Rubbish. We just want a character that's easy and logical to control. Rotational controls are stupid when you have an analogue stick. They made sense with a D-Pad (just about).

It really irritates me when people have a dig at Resi controls, because they perform their function perfectly and without them a lot of the games tension would be sapped away

If the game's tension depends on cumbersome, awkward controls then the game isn't up to scratch. Responsive, logical controls would only improve the game.

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Rubbish. We just want a character that's easy and logical to control. Rotational controls are stupid when you have an analogue stick. They made sense with a D-Pad (just about).

If the game's tension depends on cumbersome, awkward controls then the game isn't up to scratch. Responsive, logical controls would only improve the game.

what about when you are walking towards the camera, and then it suddenly changes direction... isnt it logical that 'UP' should always make a character go forward when the static camera is prone to suddenly switch?

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oh yeah another franchise where comments by latecomers pisses me off is final fantasy. The constant whining about it being turn based and that it should be real time.

Hey Latecomer NO! If it wasnt turn based then it wouldnt be final fantasy! If you want real time then go play baldersgate or soul reaver!

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oh yeah another franchise where comments by latecomers pisses me off is final fantasy. The constant whining about it being turn based and that it should be real time.

Hey Latecomer NO! If it wasnt turn based then it wouldnt be final fantasy! If you want real time then go play baldersgate or soul reaver!

Ah, I see - you're a comedy character! B)

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Resident evils control system worked well with the ps2 dpad, the same for tomb raider, but now we have analogue sticks, tomb raider made use of the sticks and personally id rather have a character who turns around and can run away if i want, rather than spin around a bit, get stuck on the scenery, move a bit, run, spin, get stuck, run, slowly walk backwards while a zombie legs it at you, spin.

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Stop blaming newcomers. It's the developer that's decided "we don't want to keep on making the same goddamn game, not only will we be accused of laziness, we're bored to tears". Konami felt like making Metroid-esque 2D action-RPGs, and fucking great ones at that. If you want Castlevania 4 again, buy Treasure's games, they're the ones who made it.

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Hmm Im having trouble deciding the validity of this argument.

I mean, if developers just made the 'same' version of games for their sequels (I'm looking at you, Tomb Raider) things would be terribly bad. Though at the same time I can understand why we all just want 'more of the same' of our favourite games. I mean, as soon as I finished Metroid Prime (this goes for any zelda I've played too), all I wanted was Metroid Prime 2. I didnt care if the items were the same, or the structure of the game, I just wanted the SAME GAMEPLAY IN NEW LOCATIONS. More world to explore, learn, conquer.

However, arguing that Castlevania will never return to its true heritage is a bit futile. Think of it from the developers point of view; if every joe wants RPG bits in the next Castlevania, they will put them there. They will ignore us joes who'd like a really cool 'Super Castlevania-reborn on GC' sorta thing, as we are in the minority, and unfortunatley it seems games are all about the money these days :) And to be fair the RPG-ness of castlevania recently is a plus.

Finally, people who think the controls in Resident Evil are good need to be shot. I mean, if you were in a house full of zombies, and you needed to run away, would you really stand on the spot and rotate 180 degrees? No. Capcom should think of better ways of making the game a challenge, rather than forcing the player into situations they cannot do anything about (ie controls and camera angles)

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oh yeah another franchise where comments by latecomers pisses me off is final fantasy. The constant whining about it being turn based and that it should be real time.

Who ever said Final Fantasy shouldn't be turn based? I've never heard anyone say that. However I've heard plenty of people saying they should get rid of random battles, which I happen to agree with, even though I've played and enjoyed many Final Fantasy games with random battles.

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I agree, random battles are a relic of old RPGs that need to be disposed of..

I think new RPGs need to dispose of it, yes. It wasn't so bad in the old days where there weren't so many explore-y adventure-y bits to them, there were just grid-like areas to get from one place to another. You'd never have to run backwards and forwards searching every nook and cranny of the background to find something to progress. In fact, I'd wager some sad chap has already calculated that so-called 'random' battles weren't actually random but occured every X amount of steps, or something. Perhaps. :)

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Im not talking about faults. Im talking about fundamental design ideas. The sort that make a series stand out from another,.

But that's exactly the point with the RE series in particular. It would have moved on years ago had the developers had some bottle and not given in to their fanbase who they knew guaranteed a few (ever decreasing) sales with the annoying control methods, crappy combat and even those shitty loadscreens, which were a relic of the PS1 yet still showed up on the DC! Why? Because they didn't want the series to evolve.

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Anyone who thinks that terrible controls and not seeing enemies in time are the good bits of Resi needs their head examined. Look at Eternal Darkness- good controls and camera, same incredible atmospherics and puzzle solving.

Result? Better game.

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Let me defend RE...

As the series stands at the moment, you can do a 180 degree turn, so no need to turn on the spot most of the time. Walking forward and turning will get you where you need to go forthwith. Analogue controls with flick screens do not work, IMO. Having to let go of the control stick so that the calibration can reset is just arse, IMO, and far worse than RE's up is always forward etc. Try Silent Hill 2 and 3. That offers the choice of controls. Analogue and the RE style. Without doubt I go back to the RE style every time. ED Usually has one fixed camera angle that scrolls about, getting rid of the flick screen style, so it is quite different from RE. However, on a number of occasions you will be running down a corridor towards the camera which will just move backwards and you have no idea what's coming up. They all have their problems. I jus think the RE style works best for the flick screen, pre-rendered style of presentation.

Enemies off screen. Hold down aim and watch Chris, Jill, Claire - whoever spin on the spot and aim at them. You know they are there. As soon as you enter a room you do this. I do because I have no idea what's gonna be in there - Zombie, hunter, licker; who knows.

However, if the game really does move to a full 3D camera then, fair enough, change the controls. But for the games that are already out, they work fine. Really.

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