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MiSTer: FPGA gaming

Dr_Dave

By Dr_Dave,
in Retro & Arcade Gaming

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DeciderVT

DeciderVT

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Ninja Doctor said:

I disagree. 
 

it comes with a psu that will get you started. You do not need a digital or analog io board. They’re helpful but not necessary. 
 

Bare absolute minimum is:

DE-10 nano

32MB Sdram 

usb otg hub or cable

usb controller 

usb keyboard

 

if you’re feeling super cheap you can even use the 8Gb microsd that comes with it. 

 

Emphasis on capable, not absolute bare minimum. I'd consider the extra RAM and some cooling necessary for running all currently available cores comfortably.

 

I also prefer a more powerful PSU if I'm running a number of USB peripherals, unless a separately powered hub is used.

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Phantoon

Phantoon

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47 minutes ago, Ninja Doctor said:

DE-10 nano

32MB Sdram 

usb otg hub or cable

usb controller 

usb keyboard

While this is technically true, and there are even cores that don't need the SDRAM at all, I'd recommend just getting the maximum size SDRAM. For the other bits, you add them on as you improve your setup. With the memory you'll want to replace it if you decide to use other cores.

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Ninja Doctor

Ninja Doctor

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Indeed. I am currently pootling still with the 32MB I was given gratis but a 128MB upgrade is to be done at some point. However for everything 16bit and below (the best stuff!) it is fine. 
 

Once the Saturn core is ready I’m going full ram though!

 

Will probably need a digital io board at that point for the menu buttons. Currently I just wire directly to the second gpio. 

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partious

partious

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I really don’t see the point of most of the add ons if you’re using the mister with a hdmi screen, other than making it slightly more convenient/tidy. 
I have the de10 nano and 128mb sdram and after a few years of using those I haven’t felt the need to get anything else. All the add ons are very far from necessary but YouTube videos etc have done a good job giving newcomers the impression that they’re absolute essentials.

 

When you get into the territory of buying adapters for minuscule input lag reductions I’d be more inclined to just play on the original hardware (probably costs less anyway). 

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DeciderVT

DeciderVT

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9 minutes ago, partious said:

When you get into the territory of buying adapters for minuscule input lag reductions I’d be more inclined to just play on the original hardware (probably costs less anyway). 


Only if you play a couple of systems.

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Bangaio

Bangaio

Posted
Posted
20 hours ago, DeciderVT said:


Bare minimum for a capable system after the DE10-Nano is going to be a digital I/O board, some RAM and a power supply, which comes to about £108 on MiSTerFPGA.co.uk. Plus a case and a USB hub of your choice, if you need them.

How would you be connecting controllers? USB, bluetooth?

You don’t need the digital io board at all and to be honest that is a bit specialist and the analogue io board is better for most people. I ran a de10 for ages with just 128mb ram, heat sync and an Amazon otg usb hub. Didn’t change the psu from the standard either. 

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Phantoon

Phantoon

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10 hours ago, Ninja Doctor said:

However for everything 16bit and below (the best stuff!) it is fine. 

Dude, the Neo Geo and the CPS2 are right there. You need a 64MB to guarantee all CPS2 and the full shebang for Neo Geo.

 

And for normal people unlike us who love the PlayStation, the MiSTer is probably now the best way to do that. Better even than a PlayStation with HDMI mods; it's a huge MiSTer selling point. I agree that for most consoles 32MB is ok, but it's £20 and the 128MB is £50. I'd argue that much extra stuff is worth biting the bullet on, you won't be using the 32MB module again if you decide to upgrade. 

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DeciderVT

DeciderVT

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51 minutes ago, Bangaio said:

You don’t need the digital io board at all and to be honest that is a bit specialist and the analogue io board is better for most people. I ran a de10 for ages with just 128mb ram, heat sync and an Amazon otg usb hub. Didn’t change the psu from the standard either. 


That's fine. I'd still recommend a better power supply unless the hub itself is powered as I've had issues when there are a few dongles plugged in. Depends entirely on the use case (I have wi-fi, BT and Logitech dongles) but I like to allow some headroom so you don't end up fannying around later.

I'm curious why you think an analogue I/O board is better for most people. I use one myself but I have CRTs that I want to use my MiSTer on eventually.

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Bangaio

Bangaio

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The digital io board gives you a digital io which can read tape from original tapes etc. and not a lot else. It really is niche. 
 

Analogue io still has  a digital audio out as well as analogue and obviously had analogue video out. 
 

I have seen lots of people but the digital io thinking they need it for HDMI or USB and it couldn’t be further from that. If you don’t need to connect to a crt then you don’t need either at all. 
 

if you want to mount a fan and have the three buttons get the analogue board. 

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spanky debrest

spanky debrest

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A few months before I got around to using a working MiSTer setup, I got back into using a real PSOne. 

 

I dug out, cleaned up and picked up a few choice controllers & peripherals (including a RGC SCART cable).

 

Retrieved, tackled and beat a few loved-but-never-conquered games from back in the day, burned a decent stack of new-to-me games, hacks and translations to CD-R and basically lamented how long I'd been missing out on PSX gaming in recent years.

 

Most crucially, I had accepted that the PlayStation One had come home after a mysterious exile to benevolently rule over the other machines.

 

Anyway, I never thought I'd use the MiSTer for systems I already currently use, but I'm really enjoying checking out new PSX stuff via SD card - rather than faffing with CD-Rs & wallets - and don't feel I need to invest in an X-Station ODE (plus professional modwork / equipment) for an old original PlayStation anymore.

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Dr_Dave

Dr_Dave

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3 minutes ago, Phantoon said:

You're right, that's shocking. How did he manage that?

 

PS1 only had 2Mb of RAM, so it doesn't need much more than that as games are read from CD files. Cart based systems with large carts (Neo Geo) tend to need more since they read the game data from SDRAM.

 

A bigger problem he had was the memory bandwidth, how quickly he could read and write to RAM for the various components.

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Ninja Doctor

Ninja Doctor

Posted
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1 hour ago, Dr_Dave said:

 

PS1 only had 2Mb of RAM, so it doesn't need much more than that as games are read from CD files. Cart based systems with large carts (Neo Geo) tend to need more since they read the game data from SDRAM.

 

A bigger problem he had was the memory bandwidth, how quickly he could read and write to RAM for the various components.

There is a bit of imperceptible delay on the audio apparently but yes it works great. It’s all about bandwidth hence the cores that really push the de10 working better on dual ram. 

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pastry

pastry

Posted
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Totally agree with @Ninja Doctor, @Bangaio et al that you don't need an I/O board at all if you just want to plug into your modern TV and play games. 

There's absolutely confusion out there about what you need to get started. It's a shame the DE-10 is now quite expensive, but a minimal MiSTer setup is still an absolute bargain.

 

People become obsessed with cases, and things like the Multisystem, which are totally unnecessary, as well as being ridiculously named – Multi System Emulator (MiSTer) Multisystem - what is this, an "ATM machine"? :rolleyes:

 

I think another thing people must not realise is you can map a button on your controller to access the menu system. No need to walk over and press the polished aluminium button connected to that I/O board you didn't need when you can do it from the couch anyway. You can reset the system from that menu, too - so another button you didn't need. And when you've walked over to press the power button.. well, you could've just switched it off on the splitter that came with your USB hub.
 

- - -

My POV on a basic list:

 

Spoiler

DE-10
USB Hub w/ splitter switch, OR OTG hub (eg if you already own one)

128MB RAM
Bluetooth dongle (optional)
Heat sink & fan (optional, but would recommend this cheap kit)
HDMI Cable (you've probably got one)
Power adaptor (2pin to your region)

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SimonG

SimonG

Posted
Posted

Love this thing.  Not had it more than 48 hours and I’ve already ordered an ironclad plus :)  

 

yet to try out the MT32 I got with it but from what I’ve seen online it sounds great.

 

I’m just concentrating on the arcade cores at the moment of which there are masses.

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Phantoon

Phantoon

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The MiSTer project is just amazing. The amount of work that people put into the cores, and what that means for future preservation (the work can be carried forward to other FPGAs and future projects) is fantastic. As our consoles die the games have been saved.

 

Whether or not this is possible for future generations remains to be seen. Imagine wanting to play Fortnite Season 1 again; has that been successfully saved? Things are becoming more ephemeral.

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dataDave

dataDave

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On 02/11/2022 at 01:04, Lyrical Donut said:

Can you lot chill out a bit with all the praise here, please? I'm increasingly becoming tempted to get on board. 😬

 

It's the best thing I've ever purchased, and not just within the tech vertical - and that's after just recently buying a performance-spec Tesla which I'd wanted for years.

 

It's been an insurmountable QOL acquisition for a number of reasons. I wouldn't even have the car if it wasn't for not having to hemorrhage thousands of pounds(euros) on sourcing old hardware, to give just one example.

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SuperFamiTom

SuperFamiTom

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While I don't have a performance-spec Tesla to compare it to I have to say that mine is also the best thing I've ever bought, certainly within the videogame / computing space anyway (the dogs that that I've spent the adoption fee on from the RSPCA over the years are the real best things I've ever spent money on).

 

That little box, the size of a couple of packets of fags, gives me access to 'perfect' copies of, to as near as makes any difference every single 8 and 16bit console game ever made, a boat load of arcade PCBs + the PlayStation and soon the Sega Saturn. All of them running just like real hardware. No worries about emulation issues or lag etc. And that's without mentioning all the computer stuff that I've not even looked into. It's such an exciting thing to be into with new stuff being released every week too.

 

Anyone with an interest in older games of that era owes it to themselves to get one asap. I just wish I'd have got mine sooner.

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