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Obi-Wan Series - Friday 27th May


Nimmel
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My first reaction to it was ‘woah’… but then I remembered how spine-tinglingly awesome it was when Yoda lifted an entire X-wing out of a swamp, with that epic music accompanying it.

 

They always have to go bigger and flashier, and it just kind of neuters those established moments.

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39 minutes ago, probotector said:

Guys, treat these like live action cartoons.

 

They’re dumb, just turn off your brains!


My Dad does this sometimes, uses “cartoon” as a synonym for stupid, or suggests that describing something as a cartoon means you should be forgiving of it having flaws in logic. When actually if you look for more than five seconds there’s a lot of cartoons that are better written and directed than 99% of live action media ever made.

 

The original Tartakovsky animated clone wars show shits on this from every possible angle. It’s not only substantially better written in terms of both plot and dialogue, but it’s action scenes shit all over this. It’s shitting on Obi-Wan from directions you wouldn’t believe. It’s doing a hand stand shitting on it from across a busy motorway. 
 

I’d go as far as saying it’s one of the top three pieces of media that have ever had Star Wars written on them. Apart from New Hope and ESB, if I had to pick a Star Wars thing to watch, that’s top. It’s A Tier Star Wars. 
 

LOOK AT THIS

 

 

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10 hours ago, JoeK said:

Does anybody else think that Disney are absolutely scared shitless of doing something that properly moves Star Wars forward? I mean, I don't mind these series' which tell tales from what is effectively history, but there's got to be a time when someone with guts stands up and just presents something completely new and tell a tell of a long time ago, but just not as long ago as we seem to get all the bloody time.

 

In particular they seem determined to just stuff more and more into the relatively short time period between episodes 3 and 4. In that time period we've already had four seasons of Rebels, one season of The Bad Batch with another on the way, Solo, Obi-Wan Kenobi and Rogue One, and we've got the Andor series coming up as well. Is it because it's the only time period where they can really use Vader?

 

It feels like Andor may well be the straw that breaks the camel's back - Rogue One was already a fairly superfluous movie, I'm not sure anyone was really crying out for the detailed backstory of one of its less interesting characters.

 

One of the reasons The Mandalorian works better is because that time period post-Return of the Jedi is much less well defined, so there's more scope for storytelling. There's a bigger time gap there but also no real continuity between episodes 6 and 7 (absolutely the fault of the sequel trilogy) so working out how they get from one place to another is interesting in itself.

 

It's very telling that no-one wants to go near the sequel trilogy itself though, or continue the story past episode 9. That world doesn't feel real and grounded in the way that episodes 4-6 do. I wonder how long episode 9 will be the end point of the Star Wars chronology, I suspect for a very long time.

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1 hour ago, Darwock said:

 

 

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Darth Vader has a tractor beam now

 

 

Lol what? He's one of the most power Sith Lords ever, of course he has the strength to do that. It's been established in the films characters moving massive objects. 

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17 hours ago, JoeK said:

Does anybody else think that Disney are absolutely scared shitless of doing something that properly moves Star Wars forward? I mean, I don't mind these series' which tell tales from what is effectively history, but there's got to be a time when someone with guts stands up and just presents something completely new and tell a tell of a long time ago, but just not as long ago as we seem to get all the bloody time.

 

Rian Johnson tried to do this, people kicked off about it and Disney bottled it. There's aspects of that film that don't work, but him pushing for them to move forward and away from the Skywalkers and the past was the right choice. Then we got that god awful final part as a response. 

 

Taika Waititi has said his film isn't going to be anything to do with the current stuff, Skywalkers or established stuff because he doesn't see the point in making more films surrounding that.

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What is the time scale between the end of Episode III and Vader ripping the decoy ship apart?

 

He’s learnt a lot in that intervening time.

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14 minutes ago, JPL said:

What is the time scale between the end of Episode III and Vader ripping the decoy ship apart?

 

He’s learnt a lot in that intervening time.


However old Luke and Leia are in this so maybe 8 or 9 years.

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To avoid writing walls of text about my thoughts on this... I don't always agree with them (that is an understatement) but I think the Red Letter Media guys pretty much mirror my own thoughts and at different moments I agree with each of them.

 

If you don't watch/like RLM then I can sum it up as it is "Super OK"

 

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1 hour ago, JPL said:

What is the time scale between the end of Episode III and Vader ripping the decoy ship apart?

 

He’s learnt a lot in that intervening time.


Ten years since RoTS. Also remember that the dark side is quicker, easier, more seductive. He crushed the fuck out of the operating room in RoTS as soon as he woke up when he found out Padme had died.

 

I don’t have a problem with the ship thing - I think it was a 360/PS3 era SW game where you pulled a Star Destroyer down onto a planet. Edit - it was The Force Unleashed.

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2 hours ago, Broker said:


My Dad does this sometimes, uses “cartoon” as a synonym for stupid, or suggests that describing something as a cartoon means you should be forgiving of it having flaws in logic. When actually if you look for more than five seconds there’s a lot of cartoons that are better written and directed than 99% of live action media ever made.

 

The original Tartakovsky animated clone wars show shits on this from every possible angle. It’s not only substantially better written in terms of both plot and dialogue, but it’s action scenes shit all over this. It’s shitting on Obi-Wan from directions you wouldn’t believe. It’s doing a hand stand shitting on it from across a busy motorway. 
 

I’d go as far as saying it’s one of the top three pieces of media that have ever had Star Wars written on them. Apart from New Hope and ESB, if I had to pick a Star Wars thing to watch, that’s top. It’s A Tier Star Wars. 
 

LOOK AT THIS

 

 

 

I agree. But try recreating it in real life with actors, sets, CG and practical effects. You either couldn't or it would look terrible.

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I would say 10 years learning under Palpatine is more than enough to believe his power.

 

I mean Luke learned part of his skills at a Degobah weekend retreat and the rest off screen, but no one ever cares about that.

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I feel this kind of accepted narrative that Disney had such a panicked knee-jerk reaction to The Last Jedi just because of a some chuds on the internet is complete nonsense. Chuds hated Captain Marvel and Black Panther and virtually any blockbuster that dares to cast anyone who isn’t a cis white guy and guess what the films still do great. In fact studios know that it’s generally good publicity to the wider public to highlight diversity. Disney in particular will make a song and dance about a chaste kiss in the background between two women (that can easily be cut out for some foreign markets) whilst funnelling money to the worst right-wing shitlord Republicans imaginable.

 

Whatever the reason Disney 'bottled’ it for, some basement dwellers are way down the list, they’ll be looking at far wider metrics than that and it obviously didn’t hit them. People often point to the box office of The Last Jedi (and Rise of Skywalker after it), but these films are the tip of the iceberg in terms of making money. You only have to look at the merchandise situation. They’re pumping out OT era/Mandalorian merch at a rate of knots. For quite a few years HotUKDeals was clogged with Porg stuff (that they obviously thought was going to be a big deal in the way Baby Yoda eventually was).

 

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Get your Porg slippers, oven gloves and tie. Available at the back of a dusty warehouse somewhere.

Take Lego, they’re still regularly releasing prequel stuff as well as OT era sets, so it must be lucrative to them, but dropped the sequel era like a hot rock the second the films’ release windows closed.
 

Going back to the conversation on why the franchise is currently so backwards looking, that’s the reason they’re strip mining this narrow time period for every last drop of content as they know it’s a cash cow.

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2 hours ago, JPL said:

What is the time scale between the end of Episode III and Vader ripping the decoy ship apart?

 

He’s learnt a lot in that intervening time.

 

Don't worry, he won't be able to get a blast door open by Episode IV or simply pull back/knacker the blockade runner at the end of Rogue One. Probably mid-life force droop or something.

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12 minutes ago, Harsin said:

I feel the narrative that Disney had such a panicked knee-jerk reaction to The Last Jedi just because of a some chuds on the internet is complete nonsense. Chuds hated Captain Marvel and Black Panther and virtually any blockbuster that dares to cast anyone who isn’t a cis white guy and guess what the films still do great. In fact studios know that it’s generally good publicity to the wider public to highlight diversity. Disney in particular will make a song and dance about a chaste kiss in the background between two women (that can easily be cut out for some foreign markets) whilst funnelling money to the worst right-wing shitlord Republicans imaginable.

 

Whatever the reason Disney 'bottled’ it for, some basement dwellers are way down the list, they’ll be looking at far wider metrics than that. People often point to the box office of The Last Jedi (and Rise of Skywalker after it), but these films are the tip of the iceberg in terms of making money. You only have to look at the merchandise situation. They’re pumping out OT era/Mandalorian merch at a rate of knots. For quite a few years HotUKDeals was clogged with Porg stuff (that they obviously thought was going to be a big deal in the way Baby Yoda eventually was).

 

spacer.png


Official Porg oven gloves

Take Lego, they’re still regularly releasing prequel stuff as well as OT stuff as it must be lucrative to them, but dropped sequel era like a hot rock the second the films’ release windows closed. That’s the reason they’re strip mining this narrow time period for every last drop of content as they know it’s a cash cow.

 

Dude, the internet isn't this imaginary mums basement anymore, it's where the majority of discourse happens. Twitter, Facebook and TikTok have a huge voice on today's society, just look at how easily politics is swayed by it.

 

Disney 100% pandered to the online backlash. They literally reversed anything TLJ set up and also completely sidelined the Asian actor who got loads of hate.

 

They didn't change their mind because they saw the finish product and didn't like it because there's no way in hell they ever started filming without not what Johnson was doing.

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18 minutes ago, Stigweard said:

They didn't change their mind because they saw the finish product and didn't like it because there's no way in hell they ever started filming without not what Johnson was doing.


???

 

I never even suggested that Disney just let Rian Johnson have free reign with no oversight and then their monocle popped off their face  when they saw the finished product. So I’m a bit perplexed where you got that from.

 

The knee jerk reaction after release was because it obviously didn’t meet various performance metrics. If you think that was purely down to chuds moaning and that was the only thing Disney cared about then fine, I disagree. They may have factored some of it into their decisions but tentpoles like this look at far wider markets than that.

 

Out of interest why do you think Disney consider Captain Marvel and Black Panther big successes (almost immediately greenlighting sequels for both) when they had just as much online gnashing and wailing from arseholes on the internet?

 

If pandering to a sub-culture of trolls worked in terms of generating profit then surely we’d be getting loads of Rise of Skywalker adjacent content and merchandise, instead of them shuffling the entire sequel era into a dark hole until they decide what to do going forward.

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19 minutes ago, Steven said:

 

Don't worry, he won't be able to get a blast door open by Episode IV or simply pull back/knacker the blockade runner at the end of Rogue One. Probably mid-life force droop or something.


Ehhh….I don’t have too much of a problem with that as you could argue that a corvette is more powerful than whatever knackered old transport the smugglers were using here. Once again it’s another thing that could’ve easily been smoothed over if the script had another pass. 
 

Spoiler

Such as the smuggler explaining the situation to Obi-Wan, how they only have one ship or whatever, and he says ‘what about that other one?’

 

‘We had to cannibalise most of it to get this one running. I’d be amazed if it could still break orbit.’ 
 

Of course you could argue that this makes the final twist too obvious, but as it stands you have another ship you weren’t even aware of coming into play. Making it feel like a Deus Ex Machina. 

 

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8 minutes ago, Harsin said:


???

 

I never even suggested that Disney just let Rian Johnson have free reign with no oversight and then their monocle popped off their face  when they saw the finished product. So I’m a bit perplexed where you got that from.

 

The knee jerk reaction after release was because it obviously didn’t meet various performance metrics. If you think that was purely down to chuds moaning and that was the only thing Disney cared about then fine, I disagree. They may have factored some of it into their decisions but tentpoles like this look at far wider markets than that.

 

Out of interest why do you think Disney consider Captain Marvel and Black Panther big successes when they had just as much online gnashing and wailing from arseholes on the internet?

 

If pandering to them worked then surely we’d be getting loads of Rise of Skywalker adjacent content instead of them shuffling the entire sequel era into a dark hole until they decide what to do going forward.

 

Re your first paragraph, I'm merely suggesting that they were obviously happy with the story to let it go ahead so their knee jerk reaction was purely based on fan backlash because it made $1.33bn. What performance metrics are they looking at when that isn't good enough? It was never going to make TFA money, you cant compare the situations, in the same way that not all MCU movies will make Endgame money.

 

I think they've shuffled it all under the carpet because pandering didn't work. It made money but critically ROS was a massive failure. They pandered and it failed. Their own lack of planning was stheir downfall. Also hiring JJ Abrams to tell a story when everyone knows he cant finish them properly.

 

I think Black Panther and Captain Marvel are different for a few reasons. You don't pander to racists, it was Brie Larson that idiots were crying about more than the film itself and Kevin Fiege would never back down to online hatred like the SW team did. Both those films performed extremely well too.

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Quote

Re your first paragraph, I'm merely suggesting that they were obviously happy with the story to let it go ahead so their knee jerk reaction was purely based on fan backlash because it made $1.33bn. What performance metrics are they looking at when that isn't good enough? It was never going to make TFA money, you cant compare the situations, in the same way that not all MCU movies will make Endgame money.


You’re essentially arguing that Disney went well this film is doing absolutely great for us and meeting our internal expectations, but some weirdos didn’t like that it had some diversity and were vocal about it so we’ll scrap all that and do the opposite for the next one (and then stop making films altogether for a while). You’re simultaneously saying that they considered the project was a great success and also that the corporation had a knee-jerk reaction to it (despite considering it a success). In terms of critical reaction it’s actually one of the highest scoring Star Wars films on Rotten Tomatoes. Even if it had got slated by critics, while studios like good reviews they care far more about profit than critics or we wouldn’t have so many Transformers films.

 

I thought I’d been fairly clear in terms of performance metrics I think it probably didn’t hit. There’s a whole industry devoted to pumping out Star Wars toys, novels, comics, games, action figures, kitchenware, breakfast cereals and on and on and on. Oh and an actual billion dollar theme park that they built. The box office receipts for the actual films in mega-franchises like this are very much just the head of the snake when it comes to generating profit. Obviously this is all conjecture since I don’t have access to the Disney/Lucasfilms boardroom.

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I'm not at all, I'm saying they clearly saw the backlash, tired to course correct, pandered to everything people complained about and then made an evern worse film based on it, because that's exactly what happened. The drop in merch sales and the online backlash go hand in hand. 

 

Anyway, I don't wish to derail the thread anymore on TLJ, so I'm done on the matter.

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As @Harsin says most of SW's Pre-Disney profits came from merchandise, Lucas built his empire on it in fact. So I feel you are bang on.

 

I think the narrative of lots of online bullies being responsible for the relatively failure of a hugely expensive franchise - is the kind of bollocks I would expect some exec to peddle at a shareholders meeting - shortly before he is escorted off the premises by security.

 

There are vocal critics of everything, and the mismanagement of this era of the SW brand is going to make a very fascinating book one day.

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