Disco Elysium

[Sketch]

I'm torn on Disco Elysium, especially at the astronomical price of £35! At that kind of price I could rebuy Jagged Alliance 2 or Brigand: Oaxaca, or even ELEX. All three of which are some of the best RPGs I've played in my life. Tactical, FPS, and third-person respectively.

 

(No, wait, ELEX is £40 now... I bought it on sale for less than £20 before.)

 

So, Disco Elysium.

 

Part of the problem is, lots, and lots, and lots of wanky hipster websites keep going on, and on, about how great the prose are, the writing, the words, the story, the narrative arc. Etc.

 

Fuck that noise. I play RPGs to break their internal game systems, getting meta with buffs, and finding clever ways of making stats interact in ways that shatter the internal code logic.

 

Which is why I never paid any attention to Elysium. I assumed it was one of those boring walking sims, except isometric, where the game devs were basically failed writers, or failed playwrights, or failed movie makers, and so they made a game as a vessel for their epic story. And that the gameplay would be lacking the intense complexity I enjoy from this genre.

 

But then i watched a different video, and the guy was like: you unlock and boost 50+ internal skills, which are actually voices in your mind, and there's dice rolls, and you can buff your inner voices through equipment (clothes), and these buffs along with stats provide options through checkpoints via dice rolls.

 

And I was like: Oh, OK, so actually there is some depth here, and it was just wanky hipster reviewers who ignored that and chose to focus on the story,

 

But then I saw there was no combat. And I'm like: can the skills and equip buffs provide enough complexity to make up for that?

 

But then I read this forum, and lots of people are saying the RPG mechanics are just smoke and mirrors.

 

I can't decide. Burn £35 on this, or reinstall Jagged Alliance 2? Both are isometric. Both RPGs. And I do like spending several hours just tweaking my ludicrously complicated inventory in JA2.

 

Is Elysium more about feelings, and emotions, and the human condition, or is it a cleverly constructed set of rule systems which can manipulated like some sort of Rainman-style numbers god?

[Zael]

Based on your post I'd say it's probably not the game for you. The strengths lie in the writing not in the other RPG stuff like character builds, itemisation etc. 

[Sketch]

 

4 minutes ago, Zael said:

Based on your post I'd say it's probably not the game for you. The strengths lie in the writing not in the other RPG stuff like character builds, itemisation etc. 

 

Thanks! Friends were recommending it and getting irritated with me when I tried to claim the lack of combat hinted at shallow mechanics. I remained open minded, because it could have been complex without combat.

 

But I'm starting to lean more and more towards not wanting to risk more than £5 on it.

[Mogster]

Your build does make a surprising amount of difference, and in some ways make it more of an RPG in the true sense than many other games in the genre, but in practice it plays more like a point and click adventure than a CRPG. 

 

That said, there is a point where, depending on your stats you can talk an inanimate door into unlocking itself for you. That's about as meta as it gets.

[Sketch]

16 minutes ago, Mogster said:

That said, there is a point where, depending on your stats you can talk an inanimate door into unlocking itself for you. That's about as meta as it gets.

 

This sounds incredible.

[Zael]

32 minutes ago, Sketch said:

 

 

Thanks! Friends were recommending it and getting irritated with me when I tried to claim the lack of combat hinted at shallow mechanics. I remained open minded, because it could have been complex without combat.

 

But I'm starting to lean more and more towards not wanting to risk more than £5 on it.

 

If you're going in looking for a complex RPG where you have to fine tune your build and items for combat scenarios then you'll be disappointed. Like Mogster says above you can have a different experience based on your stats and how you roleplay your character. I would call the game mechanically complex based on how much effort was put into the thoughts and ideas mechanic but if your definition of mechanically complex is sitting down puzzling out whether or not you need fire resistance or an AC increase to beat a boss then yeah it's not that type of RPG.

[Benny]

RPGs with complex combat systems like, say, Divinity are in many ways less a "role playing game" and more (brilliant mind you) stat admin simulators. Disco Elysium is a "role" playing game in the literal purest sense.

[Laine]

Is there anymore news on this coming to Switch / PS4?

[Mogster]

13 minutes ago, Laine said:

Is there anymore news on this coming to Switch / PS4?

 

The port is apparently still due this year, but there hasn't been any news about it for a while as far as I'm aware.

[Jamie John]

According to the Epic Games launcher, I'm almost ten hours into this. Initially, I was a bit dubious: the game explains next to nothing and expects you to just understand the mechanics of CRPGs, like Baldur's Gate, or traditional tabletop RPG games, like D&D, neither of which I've ever played, without teaching them to you, before then going on to subvert many of those mechanics, adding to the confusion. The world itself and the number of characters you can interact with straight off the bat, as well as the depth of the lore and the multitude of references to things that you (both as the player and as the player character) don't understand, also make things very overwhelming to begin with.

 

I've stuck with it, however, currently midway through Wednesday, and am pleased to say that I'm now finding it entirely compelling. There are still things I don't really get (the Thought Cabinet, for example - you're not told what the benefits or disadvantages of learning a particular thought will be until you've internalised it, then you have to spend a skill point erasing it from your brain if you don't like it, meaning that I don't bother learning any thoughts in the first place as it's too much of a risk) and it's a pain in the arse whenever you fail a skill check that you had a decent chance of passing, but the narrative (particularly the main 'quest', for want of a better term), the writing and the characterisation are all excellent. (Kim's my favourite character.)

 

As someone else pointed out above, in practice it plays more like a point and click adventure, or visual novel, rather than what I understand CRPGs are like, and even though many of the more surreal, tangential, Lucas Arts-esque bits are often laugh out loud funny, so far it's been at its best when it gets you doing actual detective work, examining bodies, cross-examining witnesses, collecting evidence, and the like. The maritime setting and themes of union corruption and violence, as well as the detective odd couple in the centre of it all, put me strongly in mind of season 2 of The Wire, which can only ever be a fantastic thing, in my opinion.

 

I'm looking forward to playing more 

[spanx]

I’ve been playing this for an hour or two here and there over the past week (blame Hades for it not being more) and I’m intrigued by it, but it really feels like a choose you own adventure with a massively complex RPG engine behind it. I’m find it fascinating rather than enjoyable, but I’m only on the second day so looking forward to where the journey takes me. Not sure I’m actually appreciating the depth though - it’s kind of overwhelming with all the skills etc. 

[Jamie John]

3 minutes ago, spanx said:

I’ve been playing this for an hour or two here and there over the past week (blame Hades for it not being more) and I’m intrigued by it, but it really feels like a choose you own adventure with a massively complex RPG engine behind it. I’m find it fascinating rather than enjoyable, but I’m only on the second day so looking forward to where the journey takes me. Not sure I’m actually appreciating the depth though - it’s kind of overwhelming with all the skills etc. 

 

The skill system isn't really that deep, from what I can make out: the more points you put into a particular skill, the greater the chance you have of passing a check that is based on that skill. That's about it.

 

What seems to be more significant are the other, hidden factors which determine how easy or difficult a check is, such as whether you know certain information about the person you're talking to, or if you've pissed them off previously, or if you have or haven't don't certain things. As such, it's a good idea to exhaust all other options in a conversation before you try a skill check with a particular character, as by doing so you might unlock something that makes the check easier to pass. (These show up on the little card that pops up when you come to a skill check. It'll say something like "+1 Found X item" above the bit where it shows the percentage chance of you passing the check.)

 

I'd also advise you to not spend your skill points straight away, especially if you're going to just spend them arbitrarily; collect a few until you get to a skill check that's part of the main quest (the investigation) and then put them into whatever skill you need to get past the check. You can spend one on the skill, try the check and then, if you fail, put another point into it to immediately try the check again. Don't underestimate the usefulness of clothes, either - if you come across a tough check, come out of the dialogue menu, change clothes to suit the skill you need, then attempt the check afterwards. Drink and drugs are also useful for this. Just make sure you've got something you can top your health/morale up with afterwards.

 

If you're only a couple of hours in then I'd suggest you should just focus on the murder investigation for now. You pick up lots of side-quests very quickly and it's easy to get overwhelmed, but if you focus on the main quest for the first in-game day at least then you'll naturally come across lots of things that will help you with the side-quests anyway.

 

What's deeper than the RPG system is the lore and background information, especially when it comes to all the different analogues for real-life figures and ideologies, Kraz Mazov being a representation if Karl Marx, for example. A lot of that stuff does seem a bit self-indulgent, however, and I do find myself glossing over it at times. It's not a surprise to learn that the chief writer on the game is a novelist.

[alex3d]

Apologies if this has been asked before, I've just started playing this and try to get as little outside exposure to it as possible. What do these French terms mean that sometimes pop up in the dialogue section? "Savoire something", for instance?

[spanx]

10 minutes ago, alex3d said:

Apologies if this has been asked before, I've just started playing this and try to get as little outside exposure to it as possible. What do these French terms mean that sometimes pop up in the dialogue section? "Savoire something", for instance?

They’re different attributes of your personality - click on the icon with the six rectangles and you can read what they enable you to do

[Jamie John]

I completed this at the weekend and can't stop thinking about it. Fantastic game. I'm tempted to play it again.

 

Separately, if anyone wants to listen to two intelligent, eloquent blokes wax lyrical about this game for about six hours then they should check out the two episodes on it from the Watch Out for Fireballs podcast:

 

If you're familiar with Bonfireside Chat, it's the same guys. I've been listening to it in the car to and from work this week and it's great.

[HarryBizzle]

On 08/10/2020 at 21:53, Jamie John said:

I completed this at the weekend and can't stop thinking about it. Fantastic game. I'm tempted to play it again.

 

I read your post in the Games You Completed thread - or half read it, terrified of learning too much about the game, and am very interested in picking it up.

 

I was wondering how long it took you to complete, and does it have any controller support on PC? My current PC set up (or rather, chair) does not make long stints of gaming with a mouse and keyboard very comfortable.

[alex3d]

I tried this: https://www.nexusmods.com/discoelysium/mods/6

 

It works but I find it more awkward than keyboard/mouse. 

[spanx]

I don’t know about controller support, I think it may work but it’s definitely designed with mouse in mind. 
 

It’s quite a big game situated in a small world. The size comes from the script and the characters rather than the world - it’s an amazing achievement really. I’m a good 25 hours in now and feel like there’s a lot of story still to discover. 

[HarryBizzle]

Thanks, both. I don't really know much about the mechanics at all, as I'd like to go in free of expectations. I heard there is a console port in the works so thought it might work well with a controller.

[Jamie John]

10 minutes ago, HarryBizzle said:

 

I read your post in the Games You Completed thread - or half read it, terrified of learning too much about the game, and am very interested in picking it up.

 

I was wondering how long it took you to complete, and does it have any controller support on PC? My current PC set up (or rather, chair) does not make long stints of gaming with a mouse and keyboard very comfortable.

 

According to the Epic Games Launcher, it took me close to 40 hours, but that seems too long to me, so I suspect it's added on some hours when I've had the PC in Sleep mode. It also includes the times I've had the game on but paused. Regardless, however, it's a 30 hour+ experience, I'd say.

 

As for controller support, it doesn't support it natively via Epic - I'm not sure about Steam - but I spent some time playing it using my Xbox controller on the TV using this handy little program which makes your controller act like a mouse and works pretty well. The game does involve a lot of pointing and clicking, however, just to move around, so it's best played with a mouse as you just don't get the precision using an analogue stick. You might be better off waiting for the console version, if it ever makes an appearance.

 

Either way, it's definitely a game worth trying out, although I'd be sure to play it immediately if you get it so you can get the refund if you decide it's not for you.

[alex3d]

This is a masterpiece, by the way. System Shock 2, Deus Ex, Disco Elysium. I don't LIKE every design decision the developers took, such as the importance of checks as these can get frustrating. However, I UNDERSTAND why the devs came up with these choices and I appreciate these decisions and I can see their logic. It's a phenomenally intelligent game.

[Unofficial Who]

Waiting for the console version? Someone has you covered with this gameboy demake.

 

 

[grounded_dreams]

The devs have updated the official website, now just shows the word 'soon'. Wonder if they will announce the console release date at The Game Awards tomorrow.

 

[gospvg]

2 hours ago, grounded_dreams said:

The devs have updated the official website, now just shows the word 'soon'. Wonder if they will announce the console release date at The Game Awards tomorrow.

 

 

Hopefully not just an an Xbox Exclusive

[robdood]

Me and the Mrs been smashing this over last week or so - love it! 

 

Its just a little.. dense for me at times.  Like I really enjoy the characters I'm dealing with, but reams and reams of world building just turn me off so much.  Like it's so complicated and uninteresting, to me at least. 

 

Not helped by the fact that my good lady INSISTS on doing all tasks, even if they feel wrong, whereas I'm more keen on roleplaying it.  But she's right to pursue them, because you get XP that way you'd otherwise miss. 

 

Actually.. Does the game have an endless supply of XP? Just asking because there seems to be a ton of 'thought' slots to unlock, plus you have to pay skill points to forget them! Harsh. 

 

Any other recommends from you lot on games like this to play after we're done?  I really want to try Lair of the Clockwork God, and I'm even tempted to suggest OG Fallout 1/2.. 

[Mogster]

I don't think there's an unlimited supply of XP. In fact there was one point I found myself having to really go out of my way to scrape together enough XP to retry a mandatory skill check and ended up having to save scum. That only happened once though.

 

I don't think there's anything else quite like this, but the Torment games might be closest. I still haven't got around to playing either of them though.

[Jamie John]

@robdood

 

Yeah, it's meant to be roleplayed, I'd say - the amount of Xp is very much finite, as is the amount of time you have, and you're encouraged to specialise based on the type of cop you want to be, instead of spreading yourself too thinly. There's no 'grinding' to speak of.

 

Regarding the world building, it is laid on a bit thickly at times, especially to begin with when it repeatedly hits you with lots of proper nouns you don't know the referents for. You can ignore it, to an extent - the surface-level murder mystery is more than interesting enough, but the wider context is there for those who like to exhaust all the dialogue options. It encourages repeat playthroughs as you'll know what a lot more of it means by the end.

 

As @Mogster says, outside of tabletop games, Torment is probably the closest parallel, but I haven't played it either. Divinity Original Sin 2 also gets compared to it a lot, but there's a much bigger focus on combat there, and, having put a lot of time into it recently, it's a much bigger, baggier game. Some people call it their GOAT though, so you might love it.

 

Disco Elysium is a game that subverts a lot of the tropes of the CRPG/ videogame D&D genre, and ironically its the first and only game in this genre that I've ever completed. It's brilliant!

[Benny]

D:OS2 is a trad sandbox RPG. Disco Elysium is a very different kettle of fish, and to be honest more like a complex choose your own adventure story.

[robdood]

44 minutes ago, Benny said:

more like a complex choose your own adventure story

this is what I want more of! maybe I should make one.  The Mrs is a dab hand at the ol' writing. 

 

Any of you lot play Sexy Brutale? I know it's not *exactly* the same kinda of thing, but I've wanted to try it for a while. 

[Jamie John]

39 minutes ago, robdood said:

this is what I want more of! maybe I should make one.  The Mrs is a dab hand at the ol' writing. 

 

Any of you lot play Sexy Brutale? I know it's not *exactly* the same kinda of thing, but I've wanted to try it for a while. 

 

Yeah - I thought it was pretty disappointing. Certainly nothing like this.